[Archived] Fans Forum Statement

[shivery85]

I think he is refering to Glen working as a manager for WEC, not the document. If so that is a huge prejudical interest. Has this been the aim of the protest organisors all along? Even if it was not, it is how it 'could' be perceived, by any neutral observer. (hate to say it, but even Jerome Anderson mentioned, 'is there something else going on,' in his sky interview - is this what he was refering to?)

Pafell, iv read a hell of a lot of your comments on here, but time has come, to say you are an absorlute trouble maker, you havent a clue what is happenign at the club, you love to make up silly minded storeys what are happening in your small mind!!

You go calling people about protests and groups being involved with each others push for the club,

Glen aint in this for his own good he is in it for the love of the club and the future of club, do you onastly think he wants to spending days a week sorting stuff out instead of spending time with his family,

Do you not think he just wants to go game have a few pints take his wife n children and enjoy a day out altogether and not be pestered after every game all night long???

Do you think wayne wild is in for a profit, Cause we all know that there is no profit in running a team like rovers, theres hardly profit in winning the league,

this is all for the love care n future of club and town, and thats what you need to wake up to,

if it wasnt from glenn

woukld brfc be in public eye, would venkys be getting hard time in india, would the media be watching the club with close eyes, would mp's be comeing aboard joing the campain, not just about football but for the whole community, not jst blackburn town but all other surrounding area's but i see your not from round the areas so why would it affect you????

Do you even go to ewood park and watch what we have had to watch or are you one of these what just watches streams over the net and doesnt look at the whole picture as to what is happening at the club?????

seriousely you want to just take time and think about everything and take a look at the bigger picture, or even if you do go ewood then actualy before going straight on game actualy come along and meeting some brag members, instead of calling them over a computer screen and find out facts, and join website and have a look at everything

[rovers_rob]

If there's one thing the majority of people on this planet fail to grasp it is perception. Dan you are right at the crux of the fan buy-out and so you are aware of the inner workings and everything that has gone on, others are looking from the outside in. All most people know is that WW of WEC a sponsor made public the lack of communication with Venky's. Protests were going on at the time or about to start. So now that we've seen such statements as WW asked me to look over the proposal and we endorse it, those looking from the outside in will fill in the gaps based on what they have seen surrounding rovers in the interim. Deception has been at the fore and so that will be the most likely conclusion from the outside perception. It's not a reflection on GM or WW, it's just that people react and perceive based on their knowledge and experiences. Said knowledge and experiences of Rovers since the sale are very negative and distrustful, it's natural for people to do this when others come to the table. Transparency has been stated and yet this was hidden, again it's just fuel for the fire. I know 100% that initially WW was not the instigator of the protests, but others don't and won't and so consequently will fall back on what they know and perceive to judge. It's all about perception and without appreciation of others perceptions these types of movements will fail. Just as you look at a Monet and bask in its beauty, I look at it and think WTF is that, only through reason, explaination and understanding will you change my perception of his painting.

Superb post.

It just shows how much us as fans have become paranoid about everything related to the club because 18 months ago a lot of people were getting giddy about ahsan ali syed (by the way what happened to him ?) with all his flash cash and promises of top 4 football and now we even look at fellow fans like Wayne Wild and question what his motives are !!

[Mattyblue]

http://www.rovers.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10303~2618388,00.html

So business as usual then?

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

If there's one thing the majority of people on this planet fail to grasp it is perception. Dan you are right at the crux of the fan buy-out and so you are aware of the inner workings and everything that has gone on, others are looking from the outside in. All most people know is that WW of WEC a sponsor made public the lack of communication with Venky's. Protests were going on at the time or about to start. So now that we've seen such statements as WW asked me to look over the proposal and we endorse it, those looking from the outside in will fill in the gaps based on what they have seen surrounding rovers in the interim. Deception has been at the fore and so that will be the most likely conclusion from the outside perception. It's not a reflection on GM or WW, it's just that people react and perceive based on their knowledge and experiences. Said knowledge and experiences of Rovers since the sale are very negative and distrustful, it's natural for people to do this when others come to the table. Transparency has been stated and yet this was hidden, again it's just fuel for the fire. I know 100% that initially WW was not the instigator of the protests, but others don't and won't and so consequently will fall back on what they know and perceive to judge. It's all about perception and without appreciation of others perceptions these types of movements will fail. Just as you look at a Monet and bask in its beauty, I look at it and think WTF is that, only through reason, explaination and understanding will you change my perception of his painting.

Want to just repeat that you've basically just grasped everything I've been trying to spout out but not found the succinct words to put it as you have. Another really good post, Maji, you are on a roll right now.

[sweeneybrfc]

I don't understand? Why are Rovers officially endorsing the statement when its openly criticising the Club's ownership under Venky's? Or have I read this wrong?

[PAFELL]

Pafell, iv read a hell of a lot of your comments on here, but time has come, to say you are an absorlute trouble maker, you havent a clue what is happenign at the club, you love to make up silly minded storeys what are happening in your small mind!!

You go calling people about protests and groups being involved with each others push for the club,

Glen aint in this for his own good he is in it for the love of the club and the future of club, do you onastly think he wants to spending days a week sorting stuff out instead of spending time with his family,

Do you not think he just wants to go game have a few pints take his wife n children and enjoy a day out altogether and not be pestered after every game all night long???

Do you think wayne wild is in for a profit, Cause we all know that there is no profit in running a team like rovers, theres hardly profit in winning the league,

this is all for the love care n future of club and town, and thats what you need to wake up to,

if it wasnt from glenn

woukld brfc be in public eye, would venkys be getting hard time in india, would the media be watching the club with close eyes, would mp's be comeing aboard joing the campain, not just about football but for the whole community, not jst blackburn town but all other surrounding area's but i see your not from round the areas so why would it affect you????

Do you even go to ewood park and watch what we have had to watch or are you one of these what just watches streams over the net and doesnt look at the whole picture as to what is happening at the club?????

seriousely you want to just take time and think about everything and take a look at the bigger picture, or even if you do go ewood then actualy before going straight on game actualy come along and meeting some brag members, instead of calling them over a computer screen and find out facts, and join website and have a look at everything

If you look at my post that you have quoted. You will see it was in reply to somebody sowed post.

You have though summed up this messageboard at the moment. It appears anybody who questions brag. Has a different view point are either trouble makers or pro venkys etc. That attitude only alienates people.

Every single poster has a say and give their views and should be allowed to do so without being labeled trouble makers etc.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Superb post.

It just shows how much us as fans have become paranoid about everything related to the club because 18 months ago a lot of people were getting giddy about ahsan ali syed (by the way what happened to him ?) with all his flash cash and promises of top 4 football and now we even look at fellow fans like Wayne Wild and question what his motives are !!

You mean how he he left Racing Santander in the lurch by disappearing under intense investigation into his shady finances and leaving that club to rot in utter chaos? I think he is hiding in a bunker somewhere... or was that a rhetorical question?

[mark1875]

You have though summed up this messageboard at the moment. It appears anybody who questions brag. Has a different view point are either trouble makers or pro venkys etc. That attitude only alienates people.

Every single poster has a say and give their views and should be allowed to do so without being labeled trouble makers etc.

Anybody who questions the Action Group will always receive a reply their question deserves. If a question is asked, i will always personally do my best to answer it as honestly and openly as possible, as Glen has always done on this messageboard. However a lot of questions asked are of a very accusing nature, in fact often they are not even questions they are often misinformed posts making false accusations ending with a comment, name-calling the group.

Every single poster and person has a viewpoint they are entitled to express freely (alas we agree on something), however when one person is constantly pulling up on every sentence/event possible just so he can twist it into something which discredits other supporters just because they don't share their viewpoint does nothing but cause trouble in my opinion.

Everyone is aware of your views, you tell us on an hourly basis on here, daily via twitter and even joined the Action Group website to make your point. We get it, let it lie, as your actions are clearly designed to keep getting a reaction out of Action Group members so you can then make them out to be dismissive of your views.

In short nobody is dismissive of your viewpoint and your suggestions when you have one will be taken on board, your viewpoint is not the problem, the repetitive nature of it and digs at fellow supporters is what causes problems

[shivery85]

If you look at my post that you have quoted. You will see it was in reply to somebody sowed post.

You have though summed up this messageboard at the moment. It appears anybody who questions brag. Has a different view point are either trouble makers or pro venkys etc. That attitude only alienates people.

Every single poster has a say and give their views and should be allowed to do so without being labeled trouble makers etc.

If looked at all your postes and you seem just to be out to heckle glenn and wayne, if you dont like that true fans are fighting for the club then id be quite, becuase i no jack walker would want everysingle rovers fan fighting for the club and town what he has built!!

Your peramently questioning brag and accuseing people of other stuff,

Everyone has different opinion yes but also we should all stand together and see the club is screwed with these muppets in charge and do something about it, instead of sitting there and putting up with it all!!!

Why dont you just have a look at brag website, why dont you come and meet brag members and have a chat with people and actual put faces to names and disguise things, cause then i actualy think you'lle have total different opinion on brag!

[yoda]

He thinks Wayne Wild is coming to the rescue with 10,000 fans with £1000 to spare. With venkys willing to either give the club a way or sell it cheaply.

Nice idea in principle. But not in reality.

You really are in a world of your own, you have no idea what I think

[yoda]

And these individuals who hold it in their power to get rid of Venkys would be waiting for????? Let me guess.

you mean guess like Pafell

My view is that they are waiting for the most opportune moment seeing as the cards could severly the Rovers

[greco]

this is how it goes, when you mix feelings with politics or whatever you wanna call it in this case. Imo the protestors need to take a huge step back and really ask themselves what the the end game is and transparently make this public knowledge.

in politics its much easier to be a protest party. You only have to complain about others actions or opinions,and very very rarely take any responsibilyt. When you take a stance like the protestors did and supported wayne wild, which some of them work for, they made a huge mistake, as they are now seen as more then just protestors. They can now be seen as some who might have an agenda and as such, they must now acccept responsibilty and the "protests" that comes their way.

imo the protestors should never ever had begun, acting like middle men.!

nevertheless, i asked myself this question, who has - even if the protestors have an agenda - caused the most damage to our club and quite frankly, that is venky and therefore i support the protests. I strongly believe, if the protestors would have stayed just that, the support they would´ve recieved would be better.

so once again, drop the fancy pancy politics, get right back to how it all began and make it as clear as possible, how you want to attain your objective and you only have one mission, to get rid of ekan and venkys. Much more simple.

[mark1875]

nevertheless, i asked myself this question, who has - even if the protestors have an agenda - caused the most damage to our club and quite frankly, that is venky and therefore i support the protests. I strongly believe, if the protestors would have stayed just that, the support they would´ve recieved would be better.

so once again, drop the fancy pancy politics, get right back to how it all began and make it as clear as possible, how you want to attain your objective and you only have one mission, to get rid of ekan and venkys. Much more simple.

1) If the protests remained just protests, then why are we protesting?. The protests began as the supporters had no voice and no platform to show their discontent because all other existing supporters groups who did, where choosing to remain silent. So the Action Group protested in order to get that voice. Now a committee has been formed and an initial meeting with senior board members has finally been arranged, communication can begin.

2) If our only mission is to get rid of Venkys and Kean what kind of end game is that? What do you propose should happen if they all cut their ties with the club tomorrow?. The ideal scenario would be for Venkys to begin to show the club some respect, invest and run it properly. However, this is extremely unlikely to happen and now an initiative has been proposed should the worse happen and relegation becomes us, this initiative is the ONLY proposal in the public domain which will, as you say 'rid us of Venkys and Kean' and therefore the BRFC Action Group has put its 100% support behind it.

[PAFELL]

1) If the protests remained just protests, then why are we protesting?. The protests began as the supporters had no voice and no platform to show their discontent because all other existing supporters groups who did, where choosing to remain silent. So the Action Group protested in order to get that voice. Now a committee has been formed and an initial meeting with senior board members has finally been arranged, communication can begin.

2) If our only mission is to get rid of Venkys and Kean what kind of end game is that? What do you propose should happen if they all cut their ties with the club tomorrow?. The ideal scenario would be for Venkys to begin to show the club some respect, invest and run it properly. However, this is extremely unlikely to happen and now an initiative has been proposed should the worse happen and relegation becomes us, this initiative is the ONLY proposal in the public domain which will, as you say 'rid us of Venkys and Kean' and therefore the BRFC Action Group has put its 100% support behind it.

The bottomline is we all want what is best for the club - no matter the different views on the best approach. At the moment we know what venkys are doing - which is just remaining silent.

We know they are not going anywhere, at least this season. Feel sure most of us can agree with that.

Another thing we can all agree with is we want the club to survive in the prem.

The biggest issue at the moment is on here. The dis-unity of supporters. Again we all know the cause of that (venkys)

I came up with a solution for unity sometime ago but it wasn't taken up. So I questioned if people really wanted unity.

[mark1875]

Another thing we can all agree with is we want the club to survive in the prem.

The biggest issue at the moment is on here. The dis-unity of supporters. Again we all know the cause of that (venkys)

I came up with a solution for unity sometime ago but it wasn't taken up. So I questioned if people really wanted unity.

I would like to hope we can all agree that we want the club to survive in the top flight, however you among others insinuating that certain supporters would like to see the club relegated, makes me question how you expect to restore unity?

Hence my earlier point.

[PAFELL]

I would like to hope we can all agree that we want the club to survive in the top flight, however you among others insinuating that certain supporters would like to see the club relegated, makes me question how you expect to restore unity?

Hence my earlier point.

As you brought this up again, I will answer.

But again you are somebody else who has misunderstood what I meant. I also corrected that by saying wanting is the wrong word, but I changed it to needing it to achieve a fans buyout. Because probable impossible for fans to raise the money to buy a prem club. All in the plan written by others. BRAG have said they support the plan for a fans buy out and I believe have said it again recently. The plan can only be achieved if relegated. I also explained I understood it was a plan if relegation happened.

But I believe most supporters do not even want us to get into that position. Supporters needs to do all they can to keep the club in the prem.

Last night I was accused on here of attacking other supporters. A false allegation. I put forward a different opinion, as have others. Saying posters who have a different opinion to Brag, is attacking supporters does not help either.

As has been mentioned elsewhere. It is the lack of diplomacy that has not helped - Not good PR I think the term was used. Telling supporters that:

They are attacking fellow supporters,

Are pro-venky

Pro-kean,

Non- productive,

Not real supporters etc etc,

Don't care about the club etc.

Implying BRAG are rovers supporters, none BRAG members are not.

None of this has helped. Though to be honest there are mistakes made by many of us. It is often hard to put into writing what it is we are wanting to say. Some better or worse than others.

[Devon Rover]

http://www.rovers.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10303~2618388,00.html

This might just be my reading of it but I interpret this as the club utilising the FF's bland statement as a positive piece of propaganda about supporter engagement - which is one of the main things we clearly do not have in any meaningful way in the current set-up.

Reading the FF's statement the other day made me cringe but I wanted to avoid stating so as I can imagine that it was difficult to put together a form of words and some of the FF must be feeling quite let down by the whole series of events- a load of criticism wasn't going to help. But now it really looks as though the highly sanitised statement is being put to good use by those who are running the club into the ground and thats really sad.

Thats why, for me, any admiration I had for the FF has now disappeared- along with all the squabbling wannabes who think they all know how best to run the football club but in truth only seem to be enjoying running their old boys' networks and thinking up hairbrained schemes.

Rovers have been ruined, its going to be a long road back and I'm just going to try not to think about the situation until at least Venkys are out.

I posted on Saturday about how this is NOT the way to save a club from danger and it is essential that one strong group is formed to represent supporters. I am seeing nothing to suggest this is going to happen in the near future.

[PAFELL]

instead of heckeling why dont you just join website www.brfcactiongroup.org.uk, and you will find everything out there!!

Obvious reason. I do not want to join BRAG. I do not agree with their approach to things. Which is why I asked to be unsubscribed from the site.

[Fife Rover]

I'm really sorry it's come to this because when the protests started I joined several and felt that this was something I could do to help my club. As it turned out nothing really came of it in terms of immediate results such as we'd expect from normal owners in a normal club - usually when the manager loses the fans he loses his job. However, i have felt no connection to the protests for some time, not because I have seen no apparent effect though I do admit that to hear an MP giving a speech to a committee as happened the other week is something I never envisaged happening, but because gradually there has developed a rift between the majority of supporters and those who have gone on to set up BRAG. When it started i felt I could be part of it all but now it feels like us and them and this time it's not a division that Kean has created. Now this may be a totally wrong perception of what BRAG is all about. That is not important. It is the perception of many fans who feel that it's all gone very "political" now, all about points scoring and being somehow part of an organisation that is just as untransparent as Venkys are. You may claim transparency, Glen. You may claim to be approachable, but to the vast majority of ordinary fans you no longer seem like that. This is presumably not your intention. I don't think it was how you started out but like all things, circumstances tend to take movements away from those who initially support them and into the hands of the few. It's hard to avoid and I'm not attaching blame. However, if you want to get the support of large numbers of fans for what you are trying to achieve then everything has to be out in the open that can possibly be and you have to improve communication skills. I was impressed with your performance on tv. You did well in the face of idiotic questioners who had already made up their own minds about our situation and didn't listen to a word you said. Perhaps it's time to get back to being that same persona again - the guy who really does speak for many of us.

+1

[Stuart]

As you brought this up again, I will answer.

Nice up there on that moral high ground?

[yoda]

As you brought this up again, I will answer.

But again you are somebody else who has misunderstood what I meant. I also corrected that by saying wanting is the wrong word, but I changed it to needing it to achieve a fans buyout. Because probable impossible for fans to raise the money to buy a prem club. All in the plan written by others. BRAG have said they support the plan for a fans buy out and I believe have said it again recently. The plan can only be achieved if relegated. I also explained I understood it was a plan if relegation happened.

But I believe most supporters do not even want us to get into that position. Supporters needs to do all they can to keep the club in the prem.

Last night I was accused on here of attacking other supporters. A false allegation. I put forward a different opinion, as have others. Saying posters who have a different opinion to Brag, is attacking supporters does not help either.

As has been mentioned elsewhere. It is the lack of diplomacy that has not helped - Not good PR I think the term was used. Telling supporters that:

They are attacking fellow supporters,

Are pro-venky

Pro-kean,

Non- productive,

Not real supporters etc etc,

Don't care about the club etc.

Implying BRAG are rovers supporters, none BRAG members are not.

None of this has helped. Though to be honest there are mistakes made by many of us. It is often hard to put into writing what it is we are wanting to say. Some better or worse than others.

Maybe a good dose of thinking before typing might help

[greco]

'mark1875'

1) If the protests remained just protests, then why are we protesting?. The protests began as the supporters had no voice and no platform to show their discontent because all other existing supporters groups who did, where choosing to remain silent. So the Action Group protested in order to get that voice. Now a committee has been formed and an initial meeting with senior board members has finally been arranged, communication can begin.

what a weird question mark1875. nevertheless you´ve answered the question yourself, you protest to show discontent, not to act like middlemen in a takeover. You yourself just defined what you set out to do, but that isnt all that your doing, hence people beginning to doubt your motive and agenda.

im actually not doubting your intentions, im just playing the devils advocate and telling it like it is, that its you/the protestors, who have given the dark side their ammunition, in this war of attrition.

2) If our only mission is to get rid of Venkys and Kean what kind of end game is that? What do you propose should happen if they all cut their ties with the club tomorrow?. The ideal scenario would be for Venkys to begin to show the club some respect, invest and run it properly. However, this is extremely unlikely to happen and now an initiative has been proposed should the worse happen and relegation becomes us, this initiative is the ONLY proposal in the public domain which will, as you say 'rid us of Venkys and Kean' and therefore the BRFC Action Group has put its 100% support behind it.

imo your organisation, should ONLY have one main goal and thats to protest, so venky feel the heat and if possible, get the ###### to communicate or leave. How thats done, well only the imagination and perhaps the law, can establish those boundaries. I know its a piece of cake for me to pass judgement, i certainly symphatize with your mission and im rooting for ya all the way, here from the cold grey town of aalborg.

Personally i really dont know what the hell to do, as the V´s seem immune to the critisism. Perhaps the protests are too nice, perhaps they need to get a bit nasty, before they really get the results they deserve. Im grasping at straws here and im guessing im not the only one. This whole situation totally lacks logic and common sense, the way that those 3 world buffons are acting, is so far from what we´ve been used to, that it makes it harder to plan against.

perhaps the protests need to transcend continents before anything happens, maybe hurting their pride close to home does the job, again im grasping at straws.

[47er]

As you brought this up again, I will answer.

But again you are somebody else who has misunderstood what I meant. I also corrected that by saying wanting is the wrong word, but I changed it to needing it to achieve a fans buyout. Because probable impossible for fans to raise the money to buy a prem club. All in the plan written by others. BRAG have said they support the plan for a fans buy out and I believe have said it again recently. The plan can only be achieved if relegated. I also explained I understood it was a plan if relegation happened.

But I believe most supporters do not even want us to get into that position. Supporters needs to do all they can to keep the club in the prem.

Last night I was accused on here of attacking other supporters. A false allegation. I put forward a different opinion, as have others. Saying posters who have a different opinion to Brag, is attacking supporters does not help either.

As has been mentioned elsewhere. It is the lack of diplomacy that has not helped - Not good PR I think the term was used. Telling supporters that:

They are attacking fellow supporters,

Are pro-venky

Pro-kean,

Non- productive,

Not real supporters etc etc,

Don't care about the club etc.

Implying BRAG are rovers supporters, none BRAG members are not.

None of this has helped. Though to be honest there are mistakes made by many of us. It is often hard to put into writing what it is we are wanting to say. Some better or worse than others.

No one poster on this site has tried to sow disunity more than you have Pafell. Everyday, over and over again---while pleading for unity!

[Miker]

BRAG is fighting a non-existent war. The constant war analogies are laughable and I can't take people seriously if that's the sort of thing they resort to.

What is the ultimate goal here? To save Rovers from relegation? To get the owners to engage and invest? To drive them out of the club?

There are people working on doing something positive for the club silently and in the background, while you guys bicker on here about stuff that really doesn't matter.

I've said this before. Concerned about relegation and the impact it will have on the town? Start up a charity fund and initiatives to ease the impact of that occurrence.

[Ricky]

I'm kind of missing what pafell has said which is so bad or appears to be so wide of the mark to some. It is common knowledge that the fans buyout isn't really a goer if we stay up, that's the point he's raised.

He doesn't want to join brag, also I fail to see the problem with that. I dont want to join either. Does that mean I'm in for a verbal shoeing on here as well??

He's raised some valid points and I think it's about time people gave him a bit of a break.