Cricket

[jim mk2]

35 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We’ve got batting collapses off to a fine art. 

Last 7 wickets fell for 35. Anderson out for a duck reverse sweeping. It's that kind of thoughtless cricket which loses matches

India now 37 off 6, with Joe Root opening the bowling and serving up full tosses.

 

[onlyonejackwalker]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

Crawley was outstanding today in the context of the game, he’s had a tremendous series so far. 

A 250 lead would be handy, a 300 lead would win this game in my opinion. 

Crawley looked great whilst it lasted. Played straight, looked solid in defence and used his size well to turn a good length into a half volley.

Until that is he tried to play a ball hitting middle stump to square leg and played all round it. So annoying!!!

He has scored 20, 31, 76, 73, 15, 11, 42 and 60 this series. He keeps getting in, then getting out.

Tremendous series? Not sure about that. 51 runs in the first test and 26 in the 3rd test is neither use nor ornament. Jaiswal has over 600 runs at 71 including a 171, 209 and 214. That's tremendous.

But he is at least averaging over 40 which is a big improvememt. Plus he's fronting everything and batting when the ball is new and the bowlers are full of energy. Maybe I'm too harsh on him, but its only because I think he could cause chaos batting at 4 or 5.

[onlyonejackwalker]

4 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Regardless of the outcome this is a pretty pathetic showing so far by England. India’s tail enders made 130, the sum total of England’s score now with 8 wickets down 

Precisely. Fecking rubbish. Very disappointing.

[Gav]

5 hours ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

Crawley looked great whilst it lasted. Played straight, looked solid in defence and used his size well to turn a good length into a half volley.

Until that is he tried to play a ball hitting middle stump to square leg and played all round it. So annoying!!!

He has scored 20, 31, 76, 73, 15, 11, 42 and 60 this series. He keeps getting in, then getting out.

Tremendous series? Not sure about that. 51 runs in the first test and 26 in the 3rd test is neither use nor ornament. Jaiswal has over 600 runs at 71 including a 171, 209 and 214. That's tremendous.

But he is at least averaging over 40 which is a big improvememt. Plus he's fronting everything and batting when the ball is new and the bowlers are full of energy. Maybe I'm too harsh on him, but its only because I think he could cause chaos batting at 4 or 5.

Maybe I should have caveated it with ‘for England’ but I thought it was obvious….

[onlyonejackwalker]

40 minutes ago, Gav said:

Maybe I should have caveated it with ‘for England’ but I thought it was obvious….

I understood. Hence quoting his runs this series for England.

Do you think he will be happy with his series? Or describe it as tremendous? I don't.

[Gav]

10 minutes ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

I understood. Hence quoting his runs this series for England.

Do you think he will be happy with his series? Or describe it as tremendous? I don't.

I’ve not looked at the England teams batting average in this series, but he must be near the top and watching him today, he was outstanding in the context of the game. 

On these pitches, it’s a tremendous effort.

 

Edited February 25 by Gav

[jim mk2]

Well that was a tremendous few days for English sport. Rugby team capitulates to Scotland followed by a predictable collapse by England’s batsmen and inevitable defeat.

Tremendous effort by all concerned 

[onlyonejackwalker]

Disappointing to lose the series and this match so easily after getting into a good first innings position.

A lack of runs, and two good innings by the Indian middle order under fierce pressure saw them home.

[Gav]

22 minutes ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

Disappointing to lose the series and this match so easily after getting into a good first innings position.

A lack of runs, and two good innings by the Indian middle order under fierce pressure saw them home.

Its been a great series, enthralling with some fantastic cricket, but at times to have to hold your hands up and say we were beaten by the better side. 

Its on to Dharamsala next, I had hoped to make it out to India for this one, but due to other commitments I'm struggling to fit it in, looks a fantastic venue! 

Edited February 26 by Gav

[onlyonejackwalker]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its been a great series, enthralling with some fantastic cricket, but at times to have to hold your hands up and say we were beaten by the better side. 

Its on to Dharamsala next, I had hoped to make it out to India for this one, but due to other commitments I'm struggling to fit it in, looks a fantastic venue! 

Yes they have been easily the better side. Too many of our players have not contributed consistently. 

Pleasing to see how our young spinners have developed.

Wow that venue looks amazing!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

56 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Well that was a tremendous few days for English sport. Rugby team capitulates to Scotland followed by a predictable collapse by England’s batsmen and inevitable defeat.

Tremendous effort by all concerned 

Inevitable. We aren’t producing the players with the ” Right Stuff “ at the moment.

Edited February 26 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[jim mk2]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Inevitable. We aren’t producing the players with the ” Right Stuff “ at the moment.

There's some good players in the England cricket team but they're being badly managed.

Same with the rugby and football. England should be doing so much better given their resources

 

[47er]

Done by a reverse sweep again, followed by the usual batting collapse. I'd honestly ban that stroke in test matches for England. Reverse sweep on a turning pitch 😖

[jim mk2]

Root cut the silly Bazball shots out and scored a fine century - odd isn't it? 

[yoda]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Root cut the silly Bazball shots out and scored a fine century - odd isn't it? 

Not really , we still lost

[AllRoverAsia]

4 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Well that was a tremendous few days for English sport. Rugby team capitulates to Scotland followed by a predictable collapse by England’s batsmen and inevitable defeat.

Tremendous effort by all concerned 

I saw Duckett go, then, and I kid you not, just knew what would happen next.

I then stopped watching.

[chaddyrovers]

Lets not forget just how good this Indian team is. they have some very good players and playing in home conditions. 

Lets stuff some people post on here like "they're being badly managed" or "We aren’t producing the players with the ” Right Stuff “ at the moment" are just embarrassing to read. 

We are a team who have actually make test cricket more appealing to young fans but also playing their natural way as cricketers. We took 3 young spinners out there and all have took wickets and would have learnt alot more playing out there. 

Crawley and Duckett has scored runs out there. No doubt we have missed Harry Brook.

These players are developing and learning through good and bad spells of cricket. 

 

[onlyonejackwalker]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lets not forget just how good this Indian team is. they have some very good players and playing in home conditions. 

Lets stuff some people post on here like "they're being badly managed" or "We aren’t producing the players with the ” Right Stuff “ at the moment" are just embarrassing to read. 

We are a team who have actually make test cricket more appealing to young fans but also playing their natural way as cricketers. We took 3 young spinners out there and all have took wickets and would have learnt alot more playing out there. 

Crawley and Duckett has scored runs out there. No doubt we have missed Harry Brook.

These players are developing and learning through good and bad spells of cricket. 

 

We have lost the series after four tests. We were fortunate to win the one we did. We lost one test by the greatest ever margin in India. In some innings we have not survived 40 overs. India have had at least 3 top players missing every test.

Other than one big score from Pope, Duckett and Root we have often batted very badly / naively. And criminally gifted our wickets. In the last test alone I can think of four terrible dismissals.

It's not gone to plan. Because the plan was flawed. We have not scored enough runs or occupied the crease long enough. Those pointing out we don't have the players with the correct concentration, application, mindset and technique to prosper in India are simply stating the blatantly obvious. Did you know that the Indians didnt score a boundary for 35 overs chasing our total? 

They simply adapted to the immediate match requirements and played proper risk free test cricket with no misconceived, or pre-meditated ideas.

For me, Bazball has looked pretty old, dated and ineffective on this trip. I feel sorry for our bowlers. Not one batsmen comes out of this with any credit for me. 

[jim mk2]

8 minutes ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

We have lost the series after four tests. We were fortunate to win the one we did. We lost one test by the greatest ever margin in India. In some innings we have not survived 40 overs. India have had at least 3 top players missing every test.

Other than one big score from Pope, Duckett and Root we have often batted very badly / naively. And criminally gifted our wickets. In the last test alone I can think of four terrible dismissals.

It's not gone to plan. Because the plan was flawed. We have not scored enough runs or occupied the crease long enough. Those pointing out we don't have the players with the correct concentration, application, mindset and technique to prosper in India are simply stating the blatantly obvious. Did you know that the Indians didnt score a boundary for 35 overs chasing our total? 

They simply adapted to the immediate match requirements and played proper risk free test cricket with no misconceived, or pre-meditated ideas.

For me, Bazball has looked pretty old, dated and ineffective on this trip. I feel sorry for our bowlers. Not one batsmen comes out of this with any credit for me. 

 

Thanks for this, a good critique of Bazball and why it is failing or needs adapting and reining in. 

The bit in bold is significant: the Bazball mentality would have seen our lot throw the bat at the ball and tried to get the job done quickly because it's "exciting" and it's "what the crowds want to see". I would say England supporters want to see the team win - however it is achieved.

India is a tough tour but England have let themselves down badly again by not playing proper, percentage Test cricket, which means attacking when you're on top and playing carefully when you're not. 

I still blame the Bazball mentality for the first Test defeat (and with it the Ashes) at Edgbaston last summer. Its defenders will say the Manchester weather ultimately robbed us of  the Ashes but England should never have lost that Test. 

[Gav]

42 minutes ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

 

For me, Bazball has looked pretty old, dated and ineffective on this trip. I feel sorry for our bowlers. Not one batsmen comes out of this with any credit for me. 

We could return to the days of 1 series win in 17 which is where we sat before Key and Baza came in?

What this side has achieved has been phenomenal, breaking records all over the place, I’m surprised at your comments. 

Not one batsman comes out with any credit? Are you sure you’ve been watching the same series? 

Maybe you want blockers at each end and play for a draw? Give me bazball all day long, this test has been terrific.
 

 

Edited February 26 by Gav

[wilsdenrover]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

We could return to the days of 1 series win in 17 which is where we sat before Key and Baza came in?

What this side has achieved has been phenomenal, breaking records all over the place, I’m surprised at your comments. 

Not one batsman comes out with any credit? Are you sure you’ve been watching the same series? 

Maybe you want blockers at each end and play for a draw? Give me bazball all day long, this test has been terrific.
 

 

Is there nothing in between those options?

[Gav]

43 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Is there nothing in between those options?

Of course, we saw it during this series. 

We abandoned the all out attack at times, the 3rd innings in this test for example, we batted 26 overs for 37 runs, just over 1 run an over, the first innings was also slow and these aren’t the only example.

Stokes first series loss by the way, his record is tremendous. 

 

Edited February 26 by Gav

[onlyonejackwalker]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

We could return to the days of 1 series win in 17 which is where we sat before Key and Baza came in?

What this side has achieved has been phenomenal, breaking records all over the place, I’m surprised at your comments. 

Not one batsman comes out with any credit? Are you sure you’ve been watching the same series? 

Maybe you want blockers at each end and play for a draw? Give me bazball all day long, this test has been terrific.
 

 

I'm just talking about India and its been disappointing. As much throigh the lack of intelligence and discipline as anything else.

Averages in India

Crawley - 41

Duckett - 39

Pope - 35

Root - 30

Robinson - 29

Stokes - 24

Foakes - 21

Bairstow - 21

Hartley - 19

Wood - 16

Ahmed - 12

Bashir - 4

Anderson - 3

Crawley normally averages 32. Duckett averages 42. Pope averages 34. Root averages 49. Stokes averages 35. Bairstow averages 36. Foakes averages 29.

So Crawley has outperformed.his normal mediocrity and Pope is marginally better than his uninspiring 34. All.else are below, or considerably below their normal average. Yet you describe this as trenendous.

The middle order has been pish. Total dog dirt. The top four not much better. We were clearly never going to win this series with those performances. 

We lost 7 wickets for 35 runs in 26 overs in our 2nd innings. Absolutely pathetic.

Edited February 26 by onlyonejackwalker

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

We could return to the days of 1 series win in 17 which is where we sat before Key and Baza came in?

What this side has achieved has been phenomenal, breaking records all over the place, I’m surprised at your comments. 

Not one batsman comes out with any credit? Are you sure you’ve been watching the same series? 

Maybe you want blockers at each end and play for a draw? Give me bazball all day long, this test has been terrific.
 

Exactly Gav. People want old fashion cricket but how is going to the next generation and don't forget that fans going to watch Test cricket around the world is on declined so Stokes/McCullum want to entertain the fans and get people watching it again. 

4 hours ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

We have lost the series after four tests. We were fortunate to win the one we did. We lost one test by the greatest ever margin in India. In some innings we have not survived 40 overs. 

Most teams lose in India cos their conditions are so unique and are top quality team. 

4 hours ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

For me, Bazball has looked pretty old, dated and ineffective on this trip. I feel sorry for our bowlers. Not one batsmen comes out of this with any credit for me. 

I don't think you understand what Bazball is tbh. Like many others on here. McCullum and Key have given a detailed opinion on how they want to play .

 

2 hours ago, onlyonejackwalker said:

So Crawley has outperformed.his normal mediocrity and Pope is marginally better than his uninspiring 34. All.else are below, or considerably below their normal average. Yet you describe this as trenendous.

Crawley has improved under Stokes and McCullum. Our top run scorer in the Ashes btw..

Also what the averages of these players in India before this series I wonder?.

[onlyonejackwalker]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Exactly Gav. People want old fashion cricket but how is going to the next generation and don't forget that fans going to watch Test cricket around the world is on declined so Stokes/McCullum want to entertain the fans and get people watching it again. 

Most teams lose in India cos their conditions are so unique and are top quality team. 

I don't think you understand what Bazball is tbh. Like many others on here. McCullum and Key have given a detailed opinion on how they want to play .

 

Crawley has improved under Stokes and McCullum. Our top run scorer in the Ashes btw..

Also what the averages of these players in India before this series I wonder?.

Old fashioned cricket? Fast scoring, attacking cricket was being played in the 1980's with Greenidge, Haynes, Richards and Lloyd. Then again by Australia for twenty of the last thirty years. It's not as revolutionary as the uninformed imagine.

India have not lost a series at home since Cook toured there with England 17 series ago. So what? Can we not aspire to be successful?

Oh I fully understand what Bazball is meant to be. But your general lack of knowledge and understanding prevents you identifying the nuances.

For example in an earlier post you stated that Bazball allowed cricketers to fourish and play their natural game. Yet missed the irony in your words watching our best batsman in Root struggle to incorporate meditated one day shots into his test arsenal. Until he had a word with himself and played naturally again.

Why when talking about the Indua series are folk determined to talk about previous series. Try and stay current. Bazball is ok on flat tracks pefect for the bullies. In India you need technical craft.

If Bazball.is all about maximising individual performance why have so many of our top order failed to achieve their average scores in India? Not improved scores, just reached their average?

Oh and I can name 6 or 7 top Indian players who have missed either the entire series, or matches in this series. So we've been battered by their second eleven.

Like I said it's been very disappointing, but those that can't see the wood for the trees harp on about how it was before Stokes took over. Might as well.go back to Brearley against the West Indies, or Gower in Australia, or Botham or Flintoff or Atherton disastrously in charge,. But I guess mentioning Root in the West Indies does deflect from 7 wickets falling for 35 runs in the last innings of Bazball. Or our inability to.last more than 40 overs in a test innings. 

You find it exciting as its over quick and matches your attention span.