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1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

It's disappointing to see games like this when we do actually have a squad at the moment with a lot of excellent attacking options.

On reflection I don't really know what is wrong with sticking with 4231? It suits our players and links the team together well back to front.

------------------------Pickford

A-A-----------Gomez------Maguire------Chilwell

--------------Henserson------Winks

-----Sancho----------Foden--------Sterling

---------------------------Kane

Great team that, probably only France have a better set of attacking players. Recognise injuries / players behaving like dickheads made a few drop out but you could still just swap around a few names but keep the shape and it would work very well.

I like Southgate but I just didn't really understand what he was trying to do yesterday.

Would have that side but as a 4-3-3 with Winks sitting and Henderson and Foden either side.

Would also not have Pickford near the side, Pope for me with Henderson as number 2.

Agree that I have no idea what he was doing last night.

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Just play less internationals full stop, then you don’t have to make up a convoluted competition to replace friendlies. All you need is Qualifiers, a few warm up games before a tournament and the tour

Elgar's Land of Hope and Glory is far superior to the dirgy GSTQ, more upbeat and a better celebration of "Englishness".  Elgar was a football fan too - a Wolves supporter - which makes it perfec

Southgate beat Spain the last time he faced them..............

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21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Would have that side but as a 4-3-3 with Winks sitting and Henderson and Foden either side.

Would also not have Pickford near the side, Pope for me with Henderson as number 2.

Agree that I have no idea what he was doing last night.

Problem with 433 is the front three get isolated  With 4231 at least you have the 10 role to link up.

I guess we could develop an approach where we use the same personnel but can switch between the two systems during the game as required.

Three at the back however is baffling. I get why we did it at WC2018 and it worked pretty well, but the squads changed a lot and we seemed to move away from it in 2019.

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13 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Problem with 433 is the front three get isolated  With 4231 at least you have the 10 role to link up.

I guess we could develop an approach where we use the same personnel but can switch between the two systems during the game as required.

Three at the back however is baffling. I get why we did it at WC2018 and it worked pretty well, but the squads changed a lot and we seemed to move away from it in 2019.

I think it was done at the World Cup with an acceptance that we didnt have the midfield to compete and basically we could bypass it wasnt it, with 2 number 10's ahead of Henderson. We were very reliant on set pieces even against poorer teams.

With the emergence of some players since, especially Winks, Foden, Mount etc who could now potentially be part of that 3 and hopefully help us win the midfield battle more often than not with a bit more technical ability and creativity in there. 

I dont think 4-3-3 in theory has to leave the front 3 isolated, although in the big games they obviously have to be the 3 match winners, there could be scope for the 2 midfielders either side of the sitter to push on.

I definitely agree that we should move away from 3 at the back. Having only 2 midfielders (especially 2 average ones at internation level, both with defensive mindsets) in front of 3 centre backs will not enable us to play through the lines and dominate games with the current players. 

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4 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

It's disappointing to see games like this when we do actually have a squad at the moment with a lot of excellent attacking options.

On reflection I don't really know what is wrong with sticking with 4231? It suits our players and links the team together well back to front.

------------------------Pickford

A-A-----------Gomez------Maguire------Chilwell

--------------Henserson------Winks

-----Sancho----------Foden--------Sterling

---------------------------Kane

Great team that, probably only France have a better set of attacking players. Recognise injuries / players behaving like dickheads made a few drop out but you could still just swap around a few names but keep the shape and it would work very well.

I like Southgate but I just didn't really understand what he was trying to do yesterday.

I could live with that line up. Positionally it makes a lot more sense than last night. It does lend itself to players being able to plug in. 

Maddison/Barkley/Mount for Foden

Rashford for any of the front 3 etc.

 

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Southgate said before last night he wanted to try the 3 at the back system and he was planning to do so in March before the Coronavirus hit. 

Also we are missing players like Harry Maguire, Luke Shaw, Ben Chilwell, James Maddison, Ross Barkley, Marcus Rashford, Jordan Henderson, Harry Winks

Plus many players have only had a couple of weeks of training before the England games. 

on the Keeper issue, Pickford hasn't let England down so far even tho his performances for Everton havent been at the same standard as before. Henderson will probably become our number 1 in the next year if he plays regular for Man Utd and De Gea is drop. 

if we want to play the 3 at the back system why not set up like this

             Gomez Maguire Shaw

Alexander-Arnold                    Chilwell

              Henderson Foden

Sterling               Kane         Rashford

if you want to play 4 at the back set up like this

 

Alexander-Arnold  Gomez  Maguire  Chilwell

               Henderson  Winks/Philips  Foden

                 Sterling     Kane      Rashford

 

 

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Southgate said before last night he wanted to try the 3 at the back system and he was planning to do so in March before the Coronavirus hit. 

Also we are missing players like Harry Maguire, Luke Shaw, Ben Chilwell, James Maddison, Ross Barkley, Marcus Rashford, Jordan Henderson, Harry Winks

Plus many players have only had a couple of weeks of training before the England games. 

on the Keeper issue, Pickford hasn't let England down so far even tho his performances for Everton havent been at the same standard as before. Henderson will probably become our number 1 in the next year if he plays regular for Man Utd and De Gea is drop. 

if we want to play the 3 at the back system why not set up like this

             Gomez Maguire Shaw

Alexander-Arnold                    Chilwell

              Henderson Foden

Sterling               Kane         Rashford

if you want to play 4 at the back set up like this

 

Alexander-Arnold  Gomez  Maguire  Chilwell

               Henderson  Winks/Philips  Foden

                 Sterling     Kane      Rashford

 

 

We experimented with three at the back last night and it failed, so let’s hope the experiment isn’t repeated. Also, Shaw isn’t a centre back, so that first one wouldn’t work.

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1 minute ago, K-Hod said:

We experimented with three at the back last night and it failed, so let’s hope the experiment isn’t repeated. Also, Shaw isn’t a centre back, so that first one wouldn’t work.

Well I seen Shaw play that left centre back role For Man Utd several times last season. 

Plus Gary Neville mention Shaw playing that role several times last night. 

Also 3 at the back would work if we play Maguire, Shaw and Chilwell in those roles..

Plus you overlook that these players have had a couple of weeks training. 

 

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If you were happy with that performance and think it needs another go, then fair one, but I thought we were very poor against Denmark.

Just stick with the tried and tested 4-3-3 when all players are fit. Simple.

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Just now, K-Hod said:

If you were happy with that performance and think it needs another go, then fair one, but I thought we were very poor against Denmark.

Just stick with the tried and tested 4-3-3 when all players are fit. Simple.

But did I say I was happy with the performance but you have overlooked several factors including missing players which my team including players who was available for Denmark game, players match fitness and sharpness which is lacking for obviously reasons. 

The performance wasnt good enough but yet again I wasn't surprised either

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11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But did I say I was happy with the performance but you have overlooked several factors including missing players which my team including players who was available for Denmark game, players match fitness and sharpness which is lacking for obviously reasons. 

The performance wasnt good enough but yet again I wasn't surprised either

Right but that’s fine as a one off, but as I said, with a full squad available, I’d hope we wouldn’t go with that system again. 

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20 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Joe Gomez showed his quality. That’s all I have to say about both games

He is a good player. He gets flak as he makes the odd minor mistake. It gets magnified as he plays next to van Dijk who is peerless at the moment. He's only 23 too. I reckon that Southgate would have played him ahead of Kyle Walker in 2018 had he been fit.

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1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I cant believe that anyone would happily continue with Pickford in goal. He is far, far worse than either Pope or Henderson.

He might be. He certainly dropped some clangers last season. Yet he is a rare breed in that he plays better for England than his club side. 

I've not seen much of Henderson but he certainly is one to watch, especially if he ousts De Gea.

Pope is a very solid keeper.

I think that Southgate likes the fact that of the 3 Pickford is the best with the ball at his feet. Perverse I know but it's how I see it.

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2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

What do you think of the team in 4-3-3 formation?

 

Not bad, but I’d certainly have Sancho over Rashford and probably Grealish over Phillips. 
I wouldn’t want two defensive midfielders in one team.

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9 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Not bad, but I’d certainly have Sancho over Rashford and probably Grealish over Phillips. 
I wouldn’t want two defensive midfielders in one team.

Henderson isnt a defensive midfielder for me. Winks would play for..

Maddison and Mount is ahead in the order of Grealish 

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2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Henderson isnt a defensive midfielder for me. Winks would play for..

Maddison and Mount is ahead in the order of Grealish 

That may be, but I wouldn’t want Henderson and a defensive mid in the same side tbh, far too negative, especially at home.
Forgot about Maddison, he would be in for me ahead of the others too. Think Mount, like Abraham had a great start to last season, but badly faded. 

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Just now, K-Hod said:

That may be, but I wouldn’t want Henderson and a defensive mid in the same side tbh, far too negative, especially at home.
Forgot about Maddison, he would be in for me ahead of the others too. Think Mount, like Abraham had a great start to last season, but badly faded. 

Big fan of Mount. Such a talent player. 

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I think " The Guardian " have had enough of Southgate. They've been running knocking articles about his management style recently. Great son in law material but a second rate manager. I was only thinking the other day I'd rather have Mowbray than Southgate as a Rovers manager. They're both cut from the same over cautious cloth but Mowbray will be cheaper.

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2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I think " The Guardian " have had enough of Southgate. They've been running knocking articles about his management style recently. Great son in law material but a second rate manager. I was only thinking the other day I'd rather have Mowbray than Southgate as a Rovers manager. They're both cut from the same over cautious cloth but Mowbray will be cheaper.

The same Southgate that has produced the best results in Euro or World Cup since in 1996 under Terry Venables? 

what more do you want? 

better than Hoddle, Keegan, Eriksson, McClaren, Capello, Hodgson, Allardyce

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

The same Southgate that has produced the best results in Euro or World Cup since in 1996 under Terry Venables? 

what more do you want? 

better than Hoddle, Keegan, Eriksson, McClaren, Capello, Hodgson, Allardyce

Got very lucky with the draw. We only played 2 good sides and lost all 3 games to them. The most defeats we have ever suffered at a world cup.

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6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The same Southgate that has produced the best results in Euro or World Cup since in 1996 under Terry Venables? 

what more do you want? 

better than Hoddle, Keegan, Eriksson, McClaren, Capello, Hodgson, Allardyce

I don't rate him Chaddy. He's not got what it takes at top level. Same with Phil Neville and the women's team, they get found out in the big matches.

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