Valérien Ismaël: Blackburn Rovers Head Coach

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, Tomphil2 said:

It's a sign of the times and state of the club for any gaffer.

Remember TM saying players are young ambitious, short career, have families and mortgages so if we can't give them what they want he's not standing in the way of them seeking it elsewhere.

He just had a more subtle way of explaining it whereas now they are portrayed as greedy, wanting to live nearer to somewhere or just wanting to leave for no apparent reason.

I can't remember Mowbray specifically saying that but it does sound like the sort of thing he would have said as he had absolutely no ambition for the Club.

A proper manager would have been fighting tooth and nail to keep our better players, operate with a slightly smaller squad or whatever.

Not be happily waving them out of the door.

 

[Tomphil2]

11 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I can't remember Mowbray specifically saying that but it does sound like the sort of thing he would have said as he had absolutely no ambition for the Club.

A proper manager would have been fighting tooth and nail to keep our better players, operate with a slightly smaller squad or whatever.

Not be happily waving them out of the door.

 

That's why in many ways Ismael is the new Mowbray for them.

Bang average, will go along with the club line whether he agrees with it or likes it or not because he knows when things aren't going well he won't get sacked.

Tony was happy to plod, Val is happy to stay in one place after 12 clubs in 12 years or whatever it is.

So despite what he says in public or what his demeanor is he'll unlikely be saying much behind the scenes.

[Jimmy612]

23 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I can't remember Mowbray specifically saying that but it does sound like the sort of thing he would have said as he had absolutely no ambition for the Club.

A proper manager would have been fighting tooth and nail to keep our better players, operate with a slightly smaller squad or whatever.

Not be happily waving them out of the door.

 

In 15 years we’ve gone from accepting and understanding that players like Duff, Bentley, RSC, Jones, Bellamy, Warnock etc will leave because it’s the football food chain and those players deserve a chance at the top, to now being told to accept with a shrug of the shoulders that it’s wholly unrealistic to prevent the likes of Travis, Brittain, Lenihan, Batth, Weimann, Dolan, and god knows who else from leaving for clubs like Derby, Wrexham, Boro.

Thats how far we have fallen since the Rao family bought the club.

[Hasta]

47 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

you clearly don't understand how players are scouting and chosen to be signing. No -way did Gestede selected the players but as you seen with Ismael wanting Morishita and Baradji. So that point is wrong. 

Yet again, its feel like we are again back about selecting a head coach appointment that's fits into how your transfer business would be or a head coach who is a good and proven at youth development, etc. That's how most clubs select their head coaches. 

on Wagner, its was reported he was the final list. Do you have anything to say this wasn't the case? 

Unsurprisingly, you seem to be arguing against something which @roversfan99didnt say.

His point was whoever was brought in as manager would have to accept the reduction in the maximum salary, key players being forced out of the door and cheap replacements being brought in. Ambitious managers wouldn’t accept that, which means you are looking at people whose reputation is on the wane. For all we know, once Wagner heard the details about the latest ‘project’ he turned it down.

 

[roversfan99]

54 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

you clearly don't understand how players are scouting and chosen to be signing. No -way did Gestede selected the players but as you seen with Ismael wanting Morishita and Baradji. So that point is wrong. 

Yet again, its feel like we are again back about selecting a head coach appointment that's fits into how your transfer business would be or a head coach who is a good and proven at youth development, etc. That's how most clubs select their head coaches. 

on Wagner, its was reported he was the final list. Do you have anything to say this wasn't the case? 

I do understand. I am adopting critical thinking in asking whether that is the best way to run a football club.

A manager will always come out and say what a new player will bring, regardless of how much involvement they had.

I have always thought that many clubs are run backwards and ours is a great example of that. We forced good managers to quit. We have ended up with a shit manager because it has to be someone who will accept having poor players put upon them etc. We have a novice heading up our recruitment, and have signed loads of shit this season. That formula will probably take us from 7th to relegation in a season.

In your head, if you question these structures, you simply dont understand. Be aware, you can understand the structure and still think its wrong or criticise it. You cant surely think the way this club is set up makes sense.

The burden of proof isnt on me to disprove Wagner being in the "final 2."

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Unsurprisingly, you seem to be arguing against something which @roversfan99didnt say.

His point was whoever was brought in as manager would have to accept the reduction in the maximum salary, key players being forced out of the door and cheap replacements being brought in. Ambitious managers wouldn’t accept that, which means you are looking at people whose reputation is on the wane. For all we know, once Wagner heard the details about the latest ‘project’ he turned it down.

 

Exactly. 

I find it strange in general how football clubs often seem to be run backwards. It should be the manager that decides on how he wants his team to look like, but that seems to now get decided by people far less qualified to be making such decisions.

Thats really paramount here. The manager is bad because a manager with a good reputation wont work under these conditions. Recruitment is overseen by novices who dont know how to build a squad to win matches, further compounded by an objective to slash the wage budget. End result, bad manager + bad squad = at the other side of the table and likely to go down.

[chaddyrovers]

15 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Unsurprisingly, you seem to be arguing against something which @roversfan99didnt say.

His point was whoever was brought in as manager would have to accept the reduction in the maximum salary, key players being forced out of the door and cheap replacements being brought in. Ambitious managers wouldn’t accept that, which means you are looking at people whose reputation is on the wane. For all we know, once Wagner heard the details about the latest ‘project’ he turned it down.

 

me and RF99 have had a similar discussions in previous conversations over how clubs choose their head coach appointment and how they will be choose by certain choices

[Roverthechimp]

On 13/12/2025 at 13:03, den said:

No. It was to hit the net without it bouncing. 
 

That was our captain.

Whom was so confident of our striker hitting the net that he offered to give the presenter 100 quid if Gueye hit the net….

VI has his merits and failings but not giving Gueye more game time is perhaps not so hard to understand…. Actually bringing him on when we need a goal on the other hand…

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I do understand. I am adopting critical thinking in asking whether that is the best way to run a football club.

A manager will always come out and say what a new player will bring, regardless of how much involvement they had.

I have always thought that many clubs are run backwards and ours is a great example of that. We forced good managers to quit. We have ended up with a shit manager because it has to be someone who will accept having poor players put upon them etc. We have a novice heading up our recruitment, and have signed loads of shit this season. That formula will probably take us from 7th to relegation in a season.

In your head, if you question these structures, you simply dont understand. Be aware, you can understand the structure and still think its wrong or criticise it. You cant surely think the way this club is set up makes sense.

The burden of proof isnt on me to disprove Wagner being in the "final 2."

we had this debate/discussions before. So you say you understand but still go on and on about it. 

Football clubs have structure in place that isn't all about the manager like Fergie era or Wenger ear but have director of football/head coach structure with scouts/data analysts doing the scouting/finding players. The head coach is part of the structure

Do you actually think Gestede scouts all these signings and our scouts like Michael Cairney, Asher Hines, Peter Sadowski didn't find and scout these players/signings? 

You don't understand Gestede doesn't scout players, that's scout job 

[RevidgeBlue]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

we had this debate/discussions before. So you say you understand but still go on and on about it. 

Football clubs have structure in place that isn't all about the manager like Fergie era or Wenger ear but have director of football/head coach structure with scouts/data analysts doing the scouting/finding players. The head coach is part of the structure

Do you actually think Gestede scouts all these signings and our scouts like Michael Cairney, Asher Hines, Peter Sadowski didn't find and scout these players/signings? 

You don't understand Gestede doesn't scout players, that's scout job 

It seemed to be common consensus though, certainly when JDT was here, and maybe even Eustace, that the Head Coach had input into the selection process and the final say.

[London blue]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

we had this debate/discussions before. So you say you understand but still go on and on about it. 

Football clubs have structure in place that isn't all about the manager like Fergie era or Wenger ear but have director of football/head coach structure with scouts/data analysts doing the scouting/finding players. The head coach is part of the structure

Do you actually think Gestede scouts all these signings and our scouts like Michael Cairney, Asher Hines, Peter Sadowski didn't find and scout these players/signings? 

You don't understand Gestede doesn't scout players, that's scout job 

I've lost count how many times you've mistaken people disagreeing with you for them not understanding the point you're trying to make.

[Kjell]

3 hours ago, DE. said:

 The only difference being that Eustace took us on as a calculated risk and made sure there was a release clause in his contract as an escape route.

While I agree with your overall sentiment, there is one thing Eustace could not have known when he signed: the rise of Rudy Gested to high positions of power. I believe it is hard to overestimate how disastrous that development was.

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It seemed to be common consensus though, certainly when JDT was here, and maybe even Eustace, that the Head Coach had input into the selection process and the final say.

I believe it the same now that Ismael has the final say whether we sign someone. He has discussed with BBC Radio Lancs that he was the man behind the Morishita move and why. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I believe it the same now that Ismael has the final say whether we sign someone. He has discussed with BBC Radio Lancs that he was the man behind the Morishita move and why. 

In which case he is responsible for the shit signed over summer. 

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

In which case he is responsible for the shit signed over summer. 

Exactly.

[roversfan99]

48 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

we had this debate/discussions before. So you say you understand but still go on and on about it. 

Football clubs have structure in place that isn't all about the manager like Fergie era or Wenger ear but have director of football/head coach structure with scouts/data analysts doing the scouting/finding players. The head coach is part of the structure

Do you actually think Gestede scouts all these signings and our scouts like Michael Cairney, Asher Hines, Peter Sadowski didn't find and scout these players/signings? 

You don't understand Gestede doesn't scout players, that's scout job 

I obviously know Gestede doesnt go out scouting the players. I never said that he did. Even back in Ferguson's era, he would have had scouts. I never said that.

We will have limited our managerial search to desperados like Ismael because managers wont want crap players put before the. They wont want dickhead novices like Gestede being at the head of the recruitment operation, or demands put on them regarding how to play, how many youngsters need to play etc. The manager should be able to choose as he should be best placed to decide. 

Ismael might have decided between x and y but I can only imagine how bad some of the lists of players will have been. Tomasson was the same and got publically frustrated by it. I remember him saying when we had a self inflicted block on transfers that he had said yes to loads of people that hadnt arrived, suggesting that he was just desperate for bodies at that point.

Im guessing you are happy with Gestede being in the position he is and with the structure of Gestede and Ismael.

I do understand how many modern day football clubs are setup. I DISAGREE that it necessarily makes total sense all of the time for them to run like that even if it modern day fashion.

[Tomphil2]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I believe it the same now that Ismael has the final say whether we sign someone. He has discussed with BBC Radio Lancs that he was the man behind the Morishita move and why. 

The final say as in he has to pick from the list given or the players recommended to him by the scouting dept.

And when they are cheap wage, low fee from relegated foreign second tier teams in the main the choice isn't really going to make a lot of difference.

Oh one is 6' plus and the other is 5'9 but a bit quicker, that kind of thing.

[DE.]

2 hours ago, Kjell said:

While I agree with your overall sentiment, there is one thing Eustace could not have known when he signed: the rise of Rudy Gested to high positions of power. I believe it is hard to overestimate how disastrous that development was.

Maybe, but I think Eustace was smart enough to know we were capable of doing something that stupid, and he was prepared to get out at the first sign Venky's were gonna Venky. 

[BRFC.]

4 hours ago, Tomphil2 said:

That's why in many ways Ismael is the new Mowbray for them.

Bang average, will go along with the club line whether he agrees with it or likes it or not because he knows when things aren't going well he won't get sacked.

Tony was happy to plod, Val is happy to stay in one place after 12 clubs in 12 years or whatever it is.

So despite what he says in public or what his demeanor is he'll unlikely be saying much behind the scenes.

Ismael is worse.

[Tomphil2]

15 minutes ago, BRFC. said:

Ismael is worse.

There's not much difference really i doubt Mowbray could do anything more with what's now at the club.

Conversely would he have done any better at Barnsley, Watford or WBA with what Ismael had ?

Maybe but i'm not convinced.

[islander200]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

we had this debate/discussions before. So you say you understand but still go on and on about it. 

Football clubs have structure in place that isn't all about the manager like Fergie era or Wenger ear but have director of football/head coach structure with scouts/data analysts doing the scouting/finding players. The head coach is part of the structure

Do you actually think Gestede scouts all these signings and our scouts like Michael Cairney, Asher Hines, Peter Sadowski didn't find and scout these players/signings? 

You don't understand Gestede doesn't scout players, that's scout job 

Yes but Gestede and Owen dictate to the recruitment team what markets to be looking in.

It won't have been the scouts who came up with the idea of targetting cheap players from relegated teams from leagues below championship standard.

Mafoumbi or however you spell it came in due to a contact of Gestedes.

I'm not a big fan of Waggott but if it had been his choice then I don't believe Ismael would have been appointed.I also believe if Waggott had still been here and had some power we wouldn't have just been signing cheap gambles, more domestic experience would have been brought in.

[roverblue]

It would be comforting to know he was under some pressure due to results and performances.

However you get no inkling that he is under even the slightest bit from those above. Nobody at the club seems to give two shits about events on or off the field.

It feels like fans are starting to feel the same way based on attendance and atmosphere.

Edited 3 hours ago by roverblue

[JHRover]

Mowbray was the perfect manager for Venkys. Not for Blackburn Rovers, but for Venkys. He was willing to work with their bonkers ways, traipse off to India and tell them how wonderful they are, handle more than a modern day manager should be handling, all the media, contracts, scouting, fans, even going as far as to appoint his assistant as director of football and Waggott as CEO to provide additional support.

In return they got seemingly everything they've ever wanted in a manager - someone they trust who they could leave to get on with it, keep the fans quiet/content, perhaps most importantly plod for a few years whilst developing serious assets that would make a hefty profit in the transfer window and allow them to recoup cash from sales.

I don't think we would ever have got promoted under him as he just isn't the sort of manager to go out and deliver that. But for a disgraceful operation like these owners want to preside over he was an ideal custodian for them to just sit there and do nothing and leave it to him.

For reasons unknown they decided to cut him off. Whether that was them losing faith or middle men getting a hand on the controls again after a few years out of the limelight we will never know. My own suspicion is that dogsbody Pasha was annoyed at Mowbray usurping him in the chain of command as he did after relegation to League One and therefore set about ensuring Mowbray's access to the top table in Pune was severed. Ever since then it has been a gradual return back to the sort of skeletal joke of a structure that was in place from 2015-2017 when they removed good people from office (Bowyer, Myers, Biggar) and either didn't replace them or replaced them with dross.

The parallels between then and now are startling. Whilst Ismael is undoubtedly a better manager than Coyle ever was he is working with a smaller and probably inferior squad. Either way the end / outcome of this is going to be the same. 

Last time around it took relegation being sealed for the idiots in India to summon people out there for a meeting, so I suspect the same this time around - they'll only even become aware of a change in league status after it happens. Unfortunately they've got even less interest and willingness to invest this time around so I'm not confident that anything will happen other than another radical round of cost cuts. Rudy will probably be the one sacrificed at that point.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I obviously know Gestede doesnt go out scouting the players. I never said that he did. Even back in Ferguson's era, he would have had scouts. I never said that.

Your posts suggested that players signed here is all down to Gestede when actually there is alot more to it than that. 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

We will have limited our managerial search to desperados like Ismael because managers wont want crap players put before the. They wont want dickhead novices like Gestede being at the head of the recruitment operation, or demands put on them regarding how to play, how many youngsters need to play etc. The manager should be able to choose as he should be best placed to decide. 

Wrong. Clubs have structures in play and a way they want to play or policies about signings, so you appoint a head coach that's fit into that structure, the squad he have to play. Look at the Forest situation this season as Prime example 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Ismael might have decided between x and y but I can only imagine how bad some of the lists of players will have been. Tomasson was the same and got publically frustrated by it. I remember him saying when we had a self inflicted block on transfers that he had said yes to loads of people that hadnt arrived, suggesting that he was just desperate for bodies at that point.

I think from what Ismael, JDT and Mowbray plus GB that you are picking a shortlist of 3 to 5 players that the scouting staff that fit the type of player you what from that position

Ismael has spoken alot about profiles of players from each position he wanted a signing him and what qualities he wanted. Like the Morishita or Baradji signing 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Im guessing you are happy with Gestede being in the position he is and with the structure of Gestede and Ismael.

I think a Director of Football/head coach structure is the right way to run the footballing side and build the club on that structure. 

on Gestede, Nothing against him but I think we need an experience DoF who has vast range of experience and knowledge of the European/World market in we are going to follow this path. 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I do understand how many modern day football clubs are setup. I DISAGREE that it necessarily makes total sense all of the time for them to run like that even if it modern day fashion.

That's fine 

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Yes but Gestede and Owen dictate to the recruitment team what markets to be looking in.

It won't have been the scouts who came up with the idea of targetting cheap players from relegated teams from leagues below championship standard.

Mafoumbi or however you spell it came in due to a contact of Gestedes.

I'm not a big fan of Waggott but if it had been his choice then I don't believe Ismael would have been appointed.I also believe if Waggott had still been here and had some power we wouldn't have just been signing cheap gambles, more domestic experience would have been brought in.

We will always be looking in all markets anyway whoever the DoF was. We always have