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SIMON GARNERS 194

Reduced prices for Swansea game.

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Of course the bigger the turnover the more can be spent on players under FFP rules.

But lets not make out as though our season ticket base paying an extra hundred quid each is going to enable us to shop in a better department. It will make minimal difference. It might see Venkys only need to put £14 million in next year instead of £15 million. Or if they decide to invest in another Brereton won't make any difference.

Nailing your loyal and committed supporters who sign up for a season despite the rubbish we've had over the last 5-6 years is the straightforward and easy way for someone like Waggott to tick the box and turn up in India having achieved his 'target' of increasing revenues. Milk those who will be there regardless. Easy. Exploit their commitment to the cause.

Not as easy or straightforward to attack the issue of low crowds at the source and to do something about it to see a longer term improvement. Waggott probably won't be here for anything beyond the next 4-5 years so he doesn't need to concern himself with losing a generation of support or being in a mess in 10-15 years time as people move away and find other things to do with their free time. Not his problem. All he has to worry about is his meeting in May with his bosses who will want to see evidence of him justifying his salary by making more money.

He's already failed with his ace card which was handing over the full DE to hordes of away fans every week as expected bankers like Stoke, WBA and Middlesbrough brought very few. 

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Exactly !   We just cannot generate enough through the doors for it to make a significant difference and the way the club is run and funded has proved it doesn't matter a jot.

In the days before Jack WAlker and the media funded circus of football it would've made all the difference in the world but now in the days of billionaire owners who are happy to write off ten to fifteen million per annum on their company books it matters not a jot.

More like having extra directors in Blackburn needs extra revenue but maybe just maybe Stevie boy is looking to pay for the young lads sat in the backrooms watching videos and Tonys air fares in the new quest for the next Tugay !

Edited by tomphil

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Just now, Biz said:

No I think it does come into account personally. The bigger the turnover, the more spent on the pitch.

Which was my point. We don't have enough turnover to cover the wages yet we are spending £7m on a sub. Ergo our current turnover has very little impact on what we currently spend on transfer fees.

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6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

So lets suppose the club sticks another £100 on every season ticket, and by some miracle everyone of the 10,000 season ticket holders renews. That will come to an extra £1 million of income over a year. So equivalent to Gladwin and Samuel's wages or half of one of Ben Brereton's legs. 

Alternatively the club could focus on increasing numbers, taking a longer term view of improving atmosphere and building support after almost a decade of it being on the decline. 

If the club aimed to get an extra 2-3000 season ticket holders by reducing prices then over a season, with those people buying food, drink and merchandise, i suspect we wouldn't be far off the same income, but with a better atmosphere and attendance.

Taking a look at the figures, assuming a current ST attendance of 10,000.

Price Rises

10% hike (£18.12 per match)

10,000 x 379 = 3,790,000

10% increase = 4,169,000

Divide by 379 = 11,000 fans required at current price for same return

 

20% hike (£19.77 per match)

10,000 x 379 = 3,790,000

20% increase = 4,548,000

Divide by 379 = 12,000 fans at current price

 

Arbitrary £100 hike (£20.80 per match)

10,000 x 379 = 3,490,000

£100 increase (26%) = 4,790,000

Divide by 379 = 12,639 fans at current price

 

Attendance Rises with Price Reduction (Equivalent required)*

At £299 per ST for same equivalent return offered by the Waggott Tax (£13 per match)

Current price = 12,675 fans

10% hike  = 13,943 fans

20% hike = 15,210 fans

£100 hike = 16,020 fans

 

A season ticket begins to look less and less worthwhile. Taking this to extremes, as fans stop buying them the prices will need to increase hugely year-on-year to cope with Waggott’s inability to increase attendances and his strategy is counter-productive. We are at the start of that process.

Waggott needs to start chasing the heads instead of bleeding the hearts.

 

* all of the attendances are worst case because they assume that every fan is a full price paying adult, which they are not.

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7 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Which was my point. We don't have enough turnover to cover the wages yet we are spending £7m on a sub. Ergo our current turnover has very little impact on what we currently spend on transfer fees.

But ffp limits losses - so we can lose/spend more if the turnover is up.

Edited by Biz

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Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Again, not the point I was making.

Does it not play into this debate though?

For me it does. Yes - wages/transfer funds arent dictated by our turnover, but FFP does limit losses, thus the more turnover, the more we can spend.

 

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Regarding season tickets I think prices will be frozen at pre last seasons early bird. However if the early bird price is£379 the club will still say it’s been frozen. Happy to pay £350 again or could move to the riverside. 

Back on topic. If think the ticket deal is good and will get us over 20k. It should be more but I think it will add to the issue of cheaper does not always increase attendances. Incidentally the weather while a factor probably did not really contribute much to the oxford attendance as most will have bought tickets in advance. Ie it could have easily rained that day. Any how I’m ringing tomorrow to get an additional ticket.

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

Around 16k max you’d think.

Depends on the weather. 18k if it’s a nice day. (Bank Holiday weekend).

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I'm imagining a few hundred from south Wales, some trek that for a 12.30 KO, and 6,000 or so walk ons, which is still double the usual number sold.

£15 isn't THAT cheap, though £1 for under 18s and free for U12s may attract a good number of families.

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5 hours ago, Stuart said:

I can’t believe you would compare Waggott with Williams. They are like night and day.

However, the reason Waggott shouldn’t just keep increasing prices every year is because, one, we do not have fans with pots of cash, and, two, this club needs to build bridges with the fanbase that has been treated very very badly this last 8 years.

He needs to get more people through the door not just keep tapping the already most loyal fans.

Haven't seen anything at all from Waggott that suggests he is worth his salary or a skilled operator like Williams, am only comparing them on this particular point.

I was paying quite a lot for my ticket in JW upper 15 years or more ago, just shy of £500 I think.

Then crowds started to drop. Williams was initially most resistant to the idea of reducing prices, he didn't like it one little bit. He thought fans should just keep piling in out of blind loyalty irrespective of price. However he eventually did it screaming and kicking and to his credit the Club stuck with the lower prices.

I agree Waggott seems to be a one trick pony whose only strategy appears to be testing the loyalty of the ever dwindling hard core to the limit and squeezing every possible penny out of them.

You'd have thought he could come out with something a lot better and more customer friendly than that. His primary remit should be getting as many people into the ground as possible as opposed to merely squeezing existing customers until the pips come out.

Edited by RevidgeBlue

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2 hours ago, Biz said:

But ffp limits losses - so we can lose/spend more if the turnover is up.

Realistically, if prices increase or decrease slightly it provides the potential for a few more staff around the Club or jobs to be done around the ground etc. The impact on the playing side is negligible.

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Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Haven't seen anything at all from Waggott that suggests he is worth his salary or a skilled operator like Williams, am only comparing them on this particular point.

I was paying quite a lot for my ticket in JW upper 15 years or more ago, just shy of £500 I think.

Then crowds started to drop. Williams was initially most resistant to the idea of reducing prices, he didn't like it one little bit. He thought fans should just keep piling in out of blind loyalty irrespective of price. However he eventually did it screaming and kicking and to his credit the Club stuck with the lower prices.

I agree Waggott's seems to be a one trick pony whose only strategy appears to be testing the loyalty of the ever dwindling hard core to the limit and squeezing every possible penny out of them.

You'd have thought he could come out with something a lot better and more customer friendly than that. His primary remit should be getting as many people into the ground as possible as opposed to merely squeezing existing customers until the pips come out.

He stuck with it because it worked.

We had our highest average gates since 1995/96 season and our highest decade average since the 50s. It was also an extremely successful period as a club.

https://ewoodpark.jimdo.com/attendances-average-attendances-1888-2013/

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I don't understand why people think watching Rovers is expensive. I can't recall how much a BBE ST was this season or how much I paid in the JWL.

@Mattybluesuggested £400 as a possibility for the BBE next season. That's £17/game against £30ish walk on. By all means argue £30 is expensive but don't argue ST holders are being ripped off at £17/match - it's great value.

I went to Chorley recently. Semi-pro football, OK but nothing like watching Rovers. Standing, no roof or terrace in some spots, couldn't get food/coffee, no parking, one toilet (I think), only one entrance and exit. I could go on.

£10 at Chorley compared to what I get at Rovers for £+/-£15/16. How can anyone argue we are expensive?

If I wanted to watch Chorley regularly I feel £5 is about right. I'm making a comparison not complaining, it was a fun afternoon.

Edited by Paul
Grammar

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On 27/04/2019 at 22:18, Stuart said:

Think we’ve already been through this, SG.

It’s hardly any kind of thanks for fantastic support. A genuine thank you recognition would be to reward long suffering ST renewers with a discount for next season.

As it is we’ve no idea when they will even be on sale, let alone what price.

Surely it's about trying to get a crowd in rather than rewarding ST holders? I get rewarded at every game by paying £15/16 when others are paying £30ish - that is high I agree and I wouldn't pay £30.

I'd also say we are not long suffering. Decent season at a fair price. What's to be unhappy about?

The main reaction I heard from ST holders against Oxford was "where have they been all season?" No reaction to price and if thousands turn up for Swansea my, and others around me, will think exactly the same again.

I pay a reasonable price to watch Rovers and couldn't care less if the Swansea tickets are less than mine.

Where there is a huge issue is the season long differential between match day and ST prices. If match day prices dropped by, for example, 30% I would expect the same for my ST.

Edited by Paul

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When you lot travel on a train or a plane, do you go round asking everyone what they paid for their tickets so you can be miserable about people paying different prices from what you are paying?

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I’m not saying that I personally think it is ‘expensive’, but it depends on what folk think is value. £500+ in the JW, I would wager is pushing it for some of our fans.

It certainly isn’t ‘cheap’ like it was 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago when you could get in the Riverside for about £270.

If you are missing 4/5 games, like many do for lots of reasons, plus the new invention of the red button, that £500+ becomes a fair chunk of change.

Remember our fanbase isn’t just saddos like us, be they ‘negative’ brfcs-ers or ultra positive chadsters, where Rovers is an obsession. A lot of season ticket holders are merely there out of routine and take it or leave it outside a matchday, and price will be a factor for them, they are either season ticket holders or nothing - so the £27 a match ticket v £18-£20 per game season ticket comparison doesn’t come in to it, if they think £400- £500+ is too dear, they’ll just knock it on the head, usually for good.

Edited by Mattyblue

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1 hour ago, Paul said:

Surely it's about trying to get a crowd in rather than rewarding ST holders? I get rewarded at every game by paying £15/16 when others are paying £30ish - that is high I agree and I wouldn't pay £30.

I'd also say we are not long suffering. Decent season at a fair price. What's to be unhappy about?

The main reaction I heard from ST holders against Oxford was "where have they been all season?" No reaction to price and if thousands turn up for Swansea my, and others around me, will think exactly the same again.

I pay a reasonable price to watch Rovers and couldn't care less if the Swansea tickets are less than mine.

Where there is a huge issue is the season long differential between match day and ST prices. If match day prices dropped by, for example, 30% I would expect the same for my ST.

Once again: £15 tickets for non-ST holders cannot be a “thank you for fantastic support”.

What you have recognised though, in your last para, is that Waggott’s plan appears to be the reverse: increase walk-on prices to the point that you can inflate ST prices and still market them as cheap. This isn’t a reward or something to be happy about, it is a punishment for fans who have stood by the club.

People have suggested lists of potential loyalty-based incentives such as extra discounts for long-standing ST holders. These would be “thank you for your fantastic support”. So the offer is disingenuous.

Your opening sentence is exactly where I am. It should be about getting a crowd in but not just for one match per season. And you don’t do that by price increases beyond people’s wage rises.

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2 hours ago, philipl said:

When you lot travel on a train or a plane, do you go round asking everyone what they paid for their tickets so you can be miserable about people paying different prices from what you are paying?

Definitely not because I've taken the time to ensure I'm buying the cheapest possible ticket given the circumstances.

If I rock up at Piccadilly for a London train at 8.00am Monday I'll pay through the nose, book in advance after 9.00 it's cheap, often so cheap we go 1st class. Same applies to many types of purchase including Rovers:

Cheapest = ST

Cheaper = up to 12.00 Saturday

Expensive = after 12.00 Saturday

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2 hours ago, philipl said:

When you lot travel on a train or a plane, do you go round asking everyone what they paid for their tickets so you can be miserable about people paying different prices from what you are paying?

Yes 😊

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Come on Stuart,the club isn't 'punishing' anyone.Your a good,intelligent contributor to this MB but less of the looking for the negative at every opportunity mantra.

The situation we are at is still far far from perfect but let's hope for a decent turnout for the final game of the Season..we could be in Bolton Wanderers poor shoes!

Chill my friend!

Edited by SIMON GARNERS 194

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