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Tom

Who will be the next Rovers prospect to make a ‘big’ move?

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Get him on a podcast. Be like Fear and Loathing in Parochial East Lancashire 

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Mans entitled to his opinion

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19 hours ago, Vinjay said:

Can't choose your family can you? Something you and Jack have in common. 

Any stories about Ronnie Clayton being an unpleasant scumbag? Peter White being a white supremacist? 

Nobody has ever said anything about Jack like this on the forum before. Seems strange that it's coming up now all as an excuse to defend a lowlife like Ferguson. Why don't you give some specific examples it's not like I'm asking for names and national insurance numbers. Not that I would agree with it anyway but at least try to back it up. The most negative thing I could ever say about Jack is that he was too nice. This ruthless bastard you're making him out to be would have fired Mackay the second he walked in the door. He would have got rid of several others too and I'm not talking about the players that were sold.

Sure someone might bring up his tax exile status. One of the reasons he moved to Jersey was so he could safeguard his employees jobs whom he was so horrible towards. What about the workers who were loyal to the point they broke pickets from their own union members (but not Jack's employees)? Yeah he was an awful, dreadful man😄. Even Ferguson with his media stooges can't cover up his bullying nature. You can't cover up any such stories with Jack because they don't exist. Your relatives must have confused him with Fred. 

I should really leave it alone but I'm going to bite anyway. You appear to be the only person comparing Jack with Fergie, nobody else has done unless I missed it, and in a similar vein nobody on here anyway has described Jack in the terms you have used, highlighted above. Its just he wasn't the saint that you want to think of him as. As for firing Mackay; I don't actually agree with you on that either. The Don was very popular with fans, and Jack knew it. To sack him straight away might have put Jack on the back foot a little bit and he was nothing if not shrewd. Plus Dalglish becoming available was a game changer and ultimately Jack's pursuit of him had to involve a vacant manager's office. 

To ask people to 'name names' in respect of Jack's Walkersteel employees is bizarre, but there are now two people on here telling a similar story of Jack's ruthlessness - and why wouldn't he be, that's how people get to own huge companies - I love the man for what he did for Rovers, and have no axe to grind with him or his memory Nor am I a Fergie defender. All we are saying is things are never quite as black-and-white as they seem, especially when you don't personally know/knew any of the people involved.

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Posted (edited)

Who did people want as manager when Mackay was sacked? I know most of you didn't think Dalglish was possible so which name was coming up most? Some directors apparently suggested Steve Coppell (seen as an up and comer at the time) but what about anyone else linked? I suppose some fans suggested Parkes completely overlooking why Mackay was sacked. I've seen press cuttings from the day Jack took over and even then the ambition was evident. Peter White knew then it's almost as if the fans only woke up to it (and even then not fully) when the offer for Lineker was made. 

Ferguson was Jack's biggest enemy in football. Nobody else came close. That's the reason for comparison. 

Edited by Vinjay

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Can we rename this thread 'Vinjay's petty little vendettas take over again' or something like that? It'll warn people against reading his constant raging against Man Utd, Sir Alex Ferguson (to give him his full title), the Walker family and whatever obsessions he steers every single thread towards.

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26 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

Ferguson was Jack's biggest enemy in football. Nobody else came close. That's the reason for comparison. 

Ferguson was Dalglish's enemy, not Jack's. He hadn't even won one league title when Jack took over at Rovers, he was probably an irrelevance to Jack then, just another football manager. You are reinventing history to suit your vendetta now.

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14 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Jack Walker loved Thatcher, was a diehard Tory voter and a tax dodger.

By all accounts he was a ruthless businessman who treated his workers badly - Thatcher would no doubt have approved. 

Everything he did for Rovers has to be seen in that context. 

 

All accounts? There's several people who loved working for Walkersteel. Said it was never the same after Jack left (and not in a good way)

I don't know if he was always a Tory voter. Jack Straw was granted a honorary position it seems like Jack approved of the "new labour direction". I imagine he wasn't the greatest fan of unions especially when people who didn't even work for him tried to disrupt his business. 

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5 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Ferguson was Dalglish's enemy, not Jack's. He hadn't even won one league title when Jack took over at Rovers, he was probably an irrelevance to Jack then, just another football manager. You are reinventing history to suit your vendetta now.

You are right Andy and insiders say it seems from Ferguson not taking Alan Hansen to the World Cup in 1986. In a live interview Dalglish was asked a question about Ferguson and he indicated towards his baby daughter in his arms and said 'ask her, you'll get more sense out of her' or words to that effect.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Ferguson was Dalglish's enemy, not Jack's. He hadn't even won one league title when Jack took over at Rovers, he was probably an irrelevance to Jack then, just another football manager. You are reinventing history to suit your vendetta now.

Jack said that he wanted to "make Manchester United look cheap". That's not reinventing history it's the truth. Dalglish gets on with Ferguson now. Jack and Ferguson never got along. 

Petty Vendettas? I've seen other football forums where people do nothing but rage at the press, media, etc and have countless grudges. Compared to some of them I'm actually quite reserved!

Edited by Vinjay

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7 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

Jack said that he wanted to "make Manchester United look cheap". That's not reinventing history it's the truth. Dalglish gets on with Ferguson now. Jack and Ferguson never got along. 

Petty Vendettas? I've seen other football forums where people do nothing but rage at the press, media, etc and have countless grudges. Compared to some of them I'm actually quite reserved!

Note he didn't say "Make Alex Ferguson look cheap". You are viewing things through a lens of Fergie winning the league year after year. At that time United weren't even the top dogs, Liverpool were.

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1 minute ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Note he didn't say "Make Alex Ferguson look cheap". You are viewing things through a lens of Fergie winning the league year after year. At that time United weren't even the top dogs, Liverpool were.

Indeed but Jack had more animosity towards United than Liverpool. 

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10 minutes ago, arbitro said:

You are right Andy and insiders say it seems from Ferguson not taking Alan Hansen to the World Cup in 1986. In a live interview Dalglish was asked a question about Ferguson and he indicated towards his baby daughter in his arms and said 'ask her, you'll get more sense out of her' or words to that effect.

I remember that Tony. I'm sure deep down and now that they are both in their advanced years, they have a grudging respect for each other but there was absolutely no love lost back in the day. Its almost certainly a Glasgow and Liverpool/Manchester thing. 

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1 hour ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I should really leave it alone but I'm going to bite anyway. You appear to be the only person comparing Jack with Fergie, nobody else has done unless I missed it, and in a similar vein nobody on here anyway has described Jack in the terms you have used, highlighted above. Its just he wasn't the saint that you want to think of him as. As for firing Mackay; I don't actually agree with you on that either. The Don was very popular with fans, and Jack knew it. To sack him straight away might have put Jack on the back foot a little bit and he was nothing if not shrewd. Plus Dalglish becoming available was a game changer and ultimately Jack's pursuit of him had to involve a vacant manager's office. 

To ask people to 'name names' in respect of Jack's Walkersteel employees is bizarre, but there are now two people on here telling a similar story of Jack's ruthlessness - and why wouldn't he be, that's how people get to own huge companies - I love the man for what he did for Rovers, and have no axe to grind with him or his memory Nor am I a Fergie defender. All we are saying is things are never quite as black-and-white as they seem, especially when you don't personally know/knew any of the people involved.

Just on the naming names thing, if people do start naming names, the posts will be hidden and warnings handed out. The site CANNOT afford legal battles against the Walker family.

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15 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

Jack said that he wanted to "make Manchester United look cheap". That's not reinventing history it's the truth. Dalglish gets on with Ferguson now. Jack and Ferguson never got along. 

Petty Vendettas? I've seen other football forums where people do nothing but rage at the press, media, etc and have countless grudges. Compared to some of them I'm actually quite reserved!

I’ll be honest Vinjay, I think you need to try and let that one go. It’s not worth spending so much time posting about all these years later.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Just on the naming names thing, if people do start naming names, the posts will be hidden and warnings handed out. The site CANNOT afford legal battles against the Walker family.

I think if the Walker family were gonna try and sue anyone (other than that lawsuit with their trustees) they would have by now! I never asked anyone to outright name employees (so I'm not sure why you brought his family up) either. 

Edited by Vinjay

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6 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

I think if the Walker family were gonna try and sue anyone (other than that lawsuit with their trustees) they would have by now! I never asked anyone to outright name employees (so I'm not sure why you brought his family up) either. 

It was you that brought them up, to be fair! 
You asked people to name names. We don’t want that happening, for reasons I outlined.

They’ve got more money than we have and believe me, the site has faced legal threats before (though not from their family). 
 

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17 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

It was you that brought them up, to be fair! 
You asked people to name names. We don’t want that happening, for reasons I outlined.

They’ve got more money than we have and believe me, the site has faced legal threats before (though not from their family). 
 

Regarding Mr Walker, i remember seeing a documentary from the old factory in stancliffe street, it was Christmas time and apparently the walkers were going to close the factory, until Jack appeared and told the staff go to the pub enjoy Christmas come back and there will be new wagons waiting for you, I used to work at Primrose third Axle in Blackburn, again in deep financial trouble, Jack gave us his fleet of trailers to make supplied the steel, he could have got them cheaper elsewhere but didn't, so for all his perceived faults and alleged nastiness, i think thats just sour grapes, in every factory people fall out with the boss and the mindset changes. there are other stories which i'm sure people on here can share of Mr Walker good and bad, end of the day you dont make millions being nice all the time. 

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23 minutes ago, EgyptianPete said:

Regarding Mr Walker, i remember seeing a documentary from the old factory in stancliffe street, it was Christmas time and apparently the walkers were going to close the factory, until Jack appeared and told the staff go to the pub enjoy Christmas come back and there will be new wagons waiting for you, I used to work at Primrose third Axle in Blackburn, again in deep financial trouble, Jack gave us his fleet of trailers to make supplied the steel, he could have got them cheaper elsewhere but didn't, so for all his perceived faults and alleged nastiness, i think thats just sour grapes, in every factory people fall out with the boss and the mindset changes. there are other stories which i'm sure people on here can share of Mr Walker good and bad, end of the day you dont make millions being nice all the time. 

This. Jack was almost certainly a bit of everything. Thankfully he loved his football club enough to do what he did, that's all I really care about now.

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I can see Travis at some point in his career playing for Burnley. I've had that premonition for some time. He's just their type of player and being from Whiston, Merseyside he doesn't have that much local loyalty to Rovers. Just have this weird nagging feeling that will happen one day.

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2 hours ago, JoeH said:

I can see Travis at some point in his career playing for Burnley. I've had that premonition for some time. He's just their type of player and being from Whiston, Merseyside he doesn't have that much local loyalty to Rovers. Just have this weird nagging feeling that will happen one day.

Hopefully on that day we will be above them in the league 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, JoeH said:

I can see Travis at some point in his career playing for Burnley. I've had that premonition for some time. He's just their type of player and being from Whiston, Merseyside he doesn't have that much local loyalty to Rovers. Just have this weird nagging feeling that will happen one day.

I thought about that possibility as well. Are people not terrified by the prospect of him joining and helping them to a 14th place finish? Surely that's a reason to sign players between 28-33 for their marketing value and to an extent playing value. I believe you can still be competitive in the Championship under those restrictions and the right recruitment. They might not have much of a sell on value but they might not cost a great deal to begin with. Many on here are of a mindset that holds the club back anyway so I don't know why they would be against a "no stepping stone" policy. Especially if it's not the "retirement home policy" either. 

Edited by Vinjay

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19 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

I thought about that possibility as well. Are people not terrified by the prospect of him joining and helping them to a 14th place finish? Surely that's a reason to sign players between 28-33 for their marketing value and to an extent playing value. I believe you can still be competitive in the Championship under those restrictions and the right recruitment. They might not have much of a sell on value but they might not cost a great deal to begin with. Many on here are of a mindset that holds the club back anyway so I don't know why they would be against a "no stepping stone" policy. Especially if it's not the "retirement home policy" either. 

My personal view is genuinely that I'd rather see a home grown, young, hungry, energetic and entertaining side playing for a Play-Off spot in the Championship than a bunch of Bradley Johnson-esque 30 year olds scraping a promotion, to then play a dismal 38 game season in the PL losing week in week out. But that's why I find a lot of entertainment in Under 23's football and why I can admit I'm a bit of an odd one out.

PL football isn't the be all and end all for me personally. Abandoning the clubs new found philosophies so soon after their implementation would be a mistake. We've had the "experienced" side before. It doesn't always work, the wages are much MUGH higher for older players and they don't always live up to expectation. Danny Muprhy, Nuno Gomes, Paul Robinson - older just means higher transfer fee's, higher wages, bigger expectations and less longevity.

A back four of Sam Hart, Scott Wharton, Darragh Lenihan, Ryan Nyambe any day of the week over a back four of 30 year old Championship stalwarts past their prime on £20,000 a week pushing us into crippling debt.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, JoeH said:

My personal view is genuinely that I'd rather see a home grown, young, hungry, energetic and entertaining side playing for a Play-Off spot in the Championship than a bunch of Bradley Johnson-esque 30 year olds scraping a promotion, to then play a dismal 38 game season in the PL losing week in week out. But that's why I find a lot of entertainment in Under 23's football and why I can admit I'm a bit of an odd one out.

PL football isn't the be all and end all for me personally. Abandoning the clubs new found philosophies so soon after their implementation would be a mistake. We've had the "experienced" side before. It doesn't always work, the wages are much MUGH higher for older players and they don't always live up to expectation. Danny Muprhy, Nuno Gomes, Paul Robinson - older just means higher transfer fee's, higher wages, bigger expectations and less longevity.

A back four of Sam Hart, Scott Wharton, Darragh Lenihan, Ryan Nyambe any day of the week over a back four of 30 year old Championship stalwarts past their prime on £20,000 a week pushing us into crippling debt.

So are most people on here willing to have players that could potentially move to Burnley (under current circumstances) than risk an aging squad? As you point out scraping promotion would likely be the problem following season. That's why it would be easier to have a "no stepping stone" policy as a midtable EPL club. People would say well where's the ambition to move higher? It's been stolen by those lowlifes in Zurich that's where it is. The club never had a great run in the Europa League so perhaps that's still "uncharted territory" but the CL? Leicester proved nothing is impossible but it's hardly a realistic aim is it? Radical marketing is the way to grow the club now and the same applies across the Championship.

Edited by Vinjay

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10 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

So are most people on here willing to have players that could potentially move to Burnley (under current circumstances) than risk an aging squad?

Yes. We've had an ageing squad before and it didn't end well. I can't imagine going back to a system now of bringing in purely older talent. We wasted wages and drove ourselves into the ground. FFP, League One a transfer ban. It makes financial sense to use our academy, to grow younger talents and yes, to sell those talents on. The profits from selling on those younger talents goes into replenishing some of the older players we have and back into funding the academy. That's the process in my opinion.

I'd rather get promoted that way within five years than "go big" on older more expensive players and attempt to do it in two. 

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