roversfan99

2 goals from that team?!

I am not having that there was such an immediate expectation that they would make the first team. Or that was it eighth tier football was where they should be playing. Especially Pratt.

This is nonsense. If anything, they are given more scope for error because of the understanding that they are new to first team football. Neither player has been criticised, and correctly too. Pratt would make no sense to loan out. Litherland isnt a wing back so IMO a more attacking signing (I am not advocating signing "dross) is needed in that position to compete with Alebiosu. That leaves either a decision for Litherland to fight at CB or to play regular football in League 1 or 2 and get toughened up like Scott Wharton did. No one has ever suggested to sign dross instead either.

Litherland isnt a right wing back though. Theres surely an argument to get a right wing back to compete with Alebiosu that can offer a more natural attacking threat, and then either consider Litherland at centre back or get hin regular game time in that position to allow him to develop similar to Scott Wharton.

I have been impressed by Pratt and probably would have him over McLoughlin if we got someone in the middle. I wouldnt loan him out. But how is it scapegoating to suggest that a player is loaned out to further their development?

Silly season where people come alive desperate for attention by claiming transfer stories and exclusives. Often people who dont show much interest or comment much outside a transfer window as if the games are immaterial. Nathan Jones will no doubt be excited.

When he was signed, he was bigged up as a player who could protect the defence if im not mistaken. Not sure hes scored many goals.

I think you are saying what you think will happen as much as anything. You are also arguing for the sake of it. I said 5, you said 3 or 4 so not much difference. A solitary striker and no added quality on either side (wing back) would not do much to improve our side which is really poor going forward. 3 strikers (Gudjohnsen out until Feb) would still leave us short. 3 players for 2 positions especially forward ones, I dont get how you think that is sufficient. Buckley could go a week of training without getting injured. He may have not been very good but they at least were signing someone who can play football matches. And Buckley was happy to move over there. Regarding Carter, there are plenty of poor players or ill fitting players that I would try and move on first. Doesnt prove it for sure. Even if he was seen there, doesnt mean he was scouting that particular player. But either way, when that account has posted its own "exclusives," they have in the main been fictional. So my skepticism can be understood. Rather than just believing everything.

I think with Pratt, I understand it much less. With Litherland, he has done very well but the question is, where does he play? He isn't a wing back and as respectable a job as he has done, especially in this formation, we need a more attacking and direct alternative to Alebiosu who we really miss. Scott Wharton came through and like Litherland, wasn't fully physically developed at that point. Regular game time in his natural position could really enhance his development in his natural position.

Regarding discussion around the goals our strikers will get. The problem is, we only have 2 strikers, so however many they get, its very much that is it. Gudjohnsen will get more than Ohashi, but either way, even 1 more isn't enough, we need 2 more. And then the other problem is the total lack of goals and dynamism elsewhere. None of our midfielders offer much goal threat, and beside Alebiosu our wing backs are limited. If you play this 3-5-2, you need goals elsewhere. We badly need a left wing back as a direct alternative to Hedges, but one who will actually offer an attacking threat. Alebiosu is a huge part of our attack when he plays, we need a direct alternative, as respectable as Litherland has been standing in, he isn't a wing back. We really need a midfielder who can slot in with Tronstad and Cantwell and give us a goal threat too, but it is 6th in the list of priorities in our imbalance squad.

Why would he agree to terminate his contract without a full pay out?

I did, not necessarily a veteran, but someone who has at least has a proven track record. Someone like that Dom Hyam at Wrexham perhaps... But it's not a case of merely being experienced. Gibson has struggled at Stoke since he joined, he is slow and he is left footed, I said from the start that I wanted a right footer. IMO, Gibson is not the answer. I would ignore that account, or at least don't blindly believe it 100%. Surely Gestede would have been at Hillsborough.

I definitely have never said that.

Pears is fine as back up.

I dont see why it has to be 2 clear goals and I think replace catastrophic with poor. Had we won 1 nil for example. That wouldnt have been a catastrophic result!

Cantwell was the only player last night that remotely looked like making something happen. Baradji once in particular just totally gave up trying to chase back which nearly had us in serious danger.

Phillips maybe be surplus at Spurs but he has had plenty of regular game time on loan spells and has played more than he would have here in the same time period. Are the 2 attackers that have been on the bench lately, the ones that stand out at under 21 level? Do you think they could have an impact?

That account is full of shit, one of many. Was it the same account that said last week that Toth had a setback?

To release them we would have to pay them up so it makes little sense. Totally agree with the stuff on Nixon. And people buy into it.

Just posted on the Sheffield Wednesday thread but I actually think we desperately need in 5 new players. Pretty much all of them are needed urgently, and none of them are areas that I think we can avoid or do without. We clearly need 2 new strikers, 1 simply wont suffice. We play 2, its the position you are probably most likely to sub mid game, and you badly need options off the bench. None of our attempted square pegs in round holes have looked remotely effective and we seem to have no young strikers coming through. We need some pace within that as we sre so slow. We definitely need a new centre back. One to slot straight into the team, right footed. With O'Riordan coming back too. I think we need a wing back on both sides. We badly need our wing backs to play on the front foot and be good going forward. Hedges is the only one who can play left wing back and he is not very good going forward, I suggested Harry Amass. We also need a more similar alternative when Alebiosu is available. Goalkeeper obviously we are fine, in central midfield I am not convinced by the quality of all of the options and we could do with more of a goal threat but it may be able to keep until summer. There are a number of players that for various reasons are unneeded. Obviously we wont be able to shift them all. Gueye, De Neve, Henriksson, Kargbo and Tavares all simply not good enough. Pickering and Ribeiro are left backs that have fallen out of favour due to the system change. Carter is a busted flush although I accept that no one will take him. I have also mentioned that I could forsee a possibility for Litherland to benefit from a loan late in the window. I think hes done well, I like certain things that I see, but I dont think he is a wing back. He needs to bulk up similar to Scott Wharton who benefitted from a loan when he was growing to then be able to be reassessed in the summer but as a centre back. He is less robust than Pratt but looks better on the ball, longer term he could potentially play that right sided centre back position. Most of this wont happen but its what I think we need to end the window with a more well rounded squad capable of fighting off relegation.

I dont think we are just a striker/Gudjohnsen short based on last night. There is a lack of quality and pace going forward even beyond that. I didnt see last nights performance as one that just lacked a bit of a finishing touch against a dismal Wednesday side hurt even more than us by unavailability, it was totally flat. The way we play, we need some real attacking quality and energy coming from either wing backs/and or central midfield. We clearly need not just 1 but 2 new forwards to give us more quality, pace, goals and different options as its important to have options off the bench too. Ohashi isnt good enough to be a guaranteed starter either. But we cant just rely on our 2 forwards to provide all of the threat. I think we really miss Alebiousu as you would expect, he gives us our only bit of pace and he is so important to how we attack. None of our other wing backs provide anything like that level of threat. Hedges is definitely more suited to being a wing back compared to a winger but when theres no Alebiosu flying down the wing on the other side, theres more emphasis on Hedges to get forward and he simply doesnt give us that. I wonder if one potential solution could be Harry Amass who I thought was one of the only bits of quality on the pitch and I think his loan ends imminently. I cant see us strengthening left wing back but I think he would be a shrewd bit of business. We still need competition for Alebiosu on the right too. Litherland as he breaks in will be judged by slightly lower standards as any player that comes through for his first senior games, but he certainly has done himself proud and looks a real player for the future. He doesnt look like a right wing back though, I think he is at wing back rather than Miller because unlike Pratt he perhaps isnt quite physically ready to cope with Championship forwards. Technically he looks good (he played one fantastic pass in the first half that Henriksson again failed to do anything with) but I wonder if we could get a more similar alternative to Alebiosu in, and also with Litherland not yet trusted in a back 3 and with potentially 2 additional bodies in that position anyway, whether it would make sense to loan him out towards the end of the window. Half a season in League 1 or perhaps League 2 but as a centre back could similar to Wharton a few years ago help him to develop physically. Rather than keeping him around to cover Alebiosu when he simply doesnt offer the same attributes. Cantwell has always been a poor striker of the ball and has a tendency to drop deep. That being said, him and Tronstad really are key in allowing us to get any semblance of control over a game. Cantwell was understandably becoming clearly frustrated with a lack of movement around him last night.

I think the squad needs a considerable overhaul. The league table and the number of dead weights in our squad and the lack of options in certain areas backs me up. I dont think its got a chance of happening in January. I dont know how you have ascertained that I think its realistic. My expectations of Gestede armed with pennies by our terrible owners are on the floor. Is "Nicko" on the case with more stories about all these wonderful players we are looking to sign? Almost as if he has stories to sell and a club to suck up to. No matter what part of the world it is, not being fit to play any games makes any player be of no use to them. You dont even know if Carter would want to move to this ficticious Middle Eastern side.

You keep shouting down the suggestion that we will fail to recruit properly based on a series of previous failures. Yet keep pushing this suggestion as if we are a normal football club and you dont seem to have much doubt that we will recruit properly, and early, and its all in hand. Also, we dont need one striker. We are massively, massively short. If you are playing 2 you need 4. Not even factoring in the injury to Gudjohnsen.

I dont see how he is spinning it, it makes no sense looking back that there was a plan to move to 352. The way that the squad has been built never suggested that. It very much came across as a temporary move that initially saw an instant improvement in results that Ismael has since stuck to. That improvement hasnt continued consistently but we still seem more balanced in terms of our first 11 than 4231, but its just left the squad looking particularly imbalanced as the squad clearly wasnt recruited for that formation. Up front, Gueye was never in favour under Ismael, its one judgement call Ismael has got consistently right. Even if Kargbo had kicked on, hes a winger. Gudjohnsen seemed to be recruited as an alternative to Ohashi, Gueye nearly left in the summer. De Neve, Kargbo and Morishita were all signed to play out wide. Miller was clearly initially intended as a right back, otherwise we came into the season having only signed one right wing back. We also signed Ribeiro last January who again doesnt fit into this formation, nor does Pickering who didnt seem to be tried to move on in the summer but now is surplus. We didnt cover ourselves at centre back even for a back 4, but certainly not for a back 3. Hopefully O'Riordan comes in and is ready, but he has been playing for a struggling League 1 team. Pratt cant be seen as the norm, its an absolute testament to him that hes slotted in seamlessly having been playing at such a low level. The circumstances were fortunate for him in that Litherland was injured at the time, theres no way the club intended to have him starting games any time soon otherwise he would have been loaned out at such a low level. He clearly wasnt seen as immediately first team standard, and because he was at such a low level, it made it possible to recall him as opposed to O'Riordan. How Pratt has done since has been as impressive on his part as no doubt surprising especially to the decision makers at the club. Theres no point saying we have x options with Wharton and in particular Carter. Cant remotely be relied upon.

If they are complacent and negligent enough to think that we are in a nether region and are not a candidate relegation then they are deluded.