[Archived] World Cup Qualifiers 2010

[Tom]

Deliberate handballs occur all the time, the reaction against Henry in the press is laughable. Why not this level of outrage when other players deliberately handle it, or when someone commits a deliberate foul? Or is it acceptable when less is at stake?

He shouldn't have done it, but then that's why it's a bookable offence. The outrage is that two officials managed to miss such a blatant handball. If this doesn't result in video refereeing being introduced at the highest level then I don't know what will.

I'm with you 100% the reaction is hilarious. If the referee saw it and booked him should he have been banned from competing if France got through anyway? If no then why not? Why should h be punished cause a ref missed it?

It makes absolutely no difference what the situation is, the punishment is for the offence itself not how many people are upset about it or how much money it could cost.

Henry was born to win, he will have no regrets at all and rightly so. He didn't set out in the match to cheat he handled it purely on instinct then carried on to his advantage, how many times do you see someone handball a ball then stop and tell the ref, come off it.

Out of interest I wonder how many of the outraged people on here were similary outraged when Speedie dived and cheated Leicster out of potentially millions?

[M-K]

Liam Brady: "We'd be willing to replay against France in Paris."

Ho ho ho. They got away with a pretty clear penalty, they were getting thoroughly dominated in extra time. If they'd gone through on pens then it would be been an injustice.

Also, I'd much rather have a world cup with France, who might get at least as far as the semi finals and play some good football, than a team that would grind out some dreary 0-0's and hope to luck their way past the group stage.

[Eddie]

Anelka should of been booked for diving and Henry should of admitted it there and then...but he didnt. France cheatered their way through and you have to feel for the Irish who did very well.

Hopefully France get absolutely d!cked at the world cup because they do not deserve to be there.

Suprised Russia didnt make it either!

I'm not sure that is fair. Anleka didn't dive; that's just what you do as a striker. Given didn't get near the ball, if you come like that and don't touch the ball then the forward just knocks it by you and goes over you. It's what forwards have always done, it's what you are taught to do. It isn't really a dive, if Anelka had wanted to take the contact there he could have, but players just preempt the actual contact by going over. Most players won't admit to a handball there.

No one would have been up in arms had that penalty been given.

Ireland should have won it last night, France probably should have won the first leg by more, although they didn't create much. If there hadn't been the moment of controversy everyone would have been happy whichever side had one and, if anyone is being honest about how that extra-time was going, had France not scored then, they probably would have scored at some point. The extra-time itself was fairly one-sided.

A shame for Ireland to go out like that and I'm annoyed to be surrounded by French celebrating the victory (although they do all admit to it having been hand ball and that it was extremely fortunate).

It's not the worst or most unjust thing I've ever seen in football, probably won't be the worst or most unjust thing I see this season.

Oh and by the way, no one will ever convince me that Henry meant to do it. The ball came across him at speed, his arms were in that position because of how he was expecting to the control the ball and he simply reacted instinctively to what happened. It is by no means on a par with what Maradonna did.

[Iceman]

Its just amazing that people cant have a go at Henry, for that deliberate handball. If that was Rovers in the semi of the FA Cup then all hell would break lose. The fact of the matter is, the ref and his assistant got it wrong but Henry's celebration was pathetic. Nobody deserves to go out like that, and i hope Henry and France get what they deserve.

[LeChuck]

Its just amazing that people cant have a go at Henry, for that deliberate handball. If that was Rovers in the semi of the FA Cup then all hell would break lose.

Why should it matter what the occasion is? If handball is an appalling thing to do then it should be treated as such every time it happens. We can't just accept deliberate handballs every weekend but then go ballistic when it happens in an important game.

I genuinely feel for the Irish because video refereeing should have been implemented long ago to stop incidents like this, but you can't lay the blame at the feet of a player who has committed an act that will be replicated hundreds of times around the globe this coming weekend.

[Iceman]

Why should it matter what the occasion is? If handball is an appalling thing to do then it should be treated as such every time it happens. We can't just accept deliberate handballs every weekend but then go ballistic when it happens in an important game.

I genuinely feel for the Irish because video refereeing should have been implemented long ago to stop incidents like this, but you can't lay the blame at the feet of a player who has committed an act that will be replicated hundreds of times around the globe this coming weekend.

Fair enough LeC, but many of these players will never have an opportunity of playing at a World Cup. Many of these players play league games every week. This is not just any occasion, its the World Cup and for any player its a great occasion to be there. Any form of cheating is wrong, but if that had happened in a league game, it would just be an issue for a few days, and the players would be at it again in the next match. The Irish will have to wait another 4 years, and there are no guarantees of qualifying. This was a great opportunity, only destroyed by a cheat and a costly mistake by the officials.

[Blue blood]

BBC Report

Henry added: "I will be honest it was a handball but I'm not the referee."

What a cowardly excuse. He should have owned up to the ref immediately that he had handled the ball. Still that's 'professionalism' these days isn't it, cheating is ok as long as you get away with it.

Agree. By that logic it's like saying, I'll be honest I murdered someone, but hey it's the police's job to stop/catch me. Realise there is a tad difference in degree of seriousness but basically it's saying that something is only immoral/wrong if caught. Great example and role model.

The most laughable thing is those calling Henry every name under the sun. It was his job to ensure his team got to the World Cup finals. He did that. It was the referee and his assistants job to ensure that the final result of the game was achieved fairly and without injustice. They didn't do that.

No footballer in the World would have turned around as the ball hit the net in extra time of the second leg of a World Cup play off, having seen their country take the lead with 17 minutes to go, and admitted they handled it in the build up and ask for the goal to be chalked off. It just would not happen. It's got nothing to do with him being French, or a cheat, or any of the other criticisms levelled at him. He had a job to do and he did it. The officials are to blame here - the players shouldn't have to be self policing. If FIFA would stop being so bloody precious and embrace a bit of change in the game then these things would not happen. Football is stuck in the dark ages because it takes itself way too seriously.

Tugs don't agree with this at all. His job is to do that fairly not by any means possible including those of illegality. Again if we applied this logic to all areas of life the world would be in a very sorry state.

Maybe it's me but I want to follow teams with integrity, winning by cheating would spoil things for me. I'd genuinely be far less happy if rovers won the FA Cup say by a blatant dive/hand ball then if we won it fair and square.

[broadsword]

The most laughable thing is those calling Henry every name under the sun. It was his job to ensure his team got to the World Cup finals. He did that. It was the referee and his assistants job to ensure that the final result of the game was achieved fairly and without injustice. They didn't do that.

No footballer in the World would have turned around as the ball hit the net in extra time of the second leg of a World Cup play off, having seen their country take the lead with 17 minutes to go, and admitted they handled it in the build up and ask for the goal to be chalked off. It just would not happen. It's got nothing to do with him being French, or a cheat, or any of the other criticisms levelled at him. He had a job to do and he did it. The officials are to blame here - the players shouldn't have to be self policing. If FIFA would stop being so bloody precious and embrace a bit of change in the game then these things would not happen. Football is stuck in the dark ages because it takes itself way too seriously.

So basically, anything goes, and it's up to the referee to spot it? There's no expectation upon the players to conduct themselves in a sporting manner, because the ref is there to punish them?

If I was Irish I'd be hopping mad, if I was French, I'd be ashamed. Everyone should be able to take sporting defeat with equanimity, but this wasn't a sporting defeat, it was out-and-out daylight robbery. The Irish have been denied the chance to participate at the World Cup because the French have a cheat in their side. But this is OK in your book, 'cos the ref should've spotted it!

He should never have sought to gain an advantage in such an unsporting way, don't fret that he should've told the ref what he'd done. Why would he commit a blatant handball then inform the ref? Wouldn't make sense, would it? That's like robbing a bank then handing yourself in to the Police.

If this is what football's becoming, ie win at all costs without regard to the rules, in the end people will switch off. It's sad.

Liam Brady: "We'd be willing to replay against France in Paris."

Ho ho ho. They got away with a pretty clear penalty,

Nonsense, that was a (admittedly very convincing) dive.

[G Somerset Rover]

Oh and by the way, no one will ever convince me that Henry meant to do it. The ball came across him at speed, his arms were in that position because of how he was expecting to the control the ball and he simply reacted instinctively to what happened. It is by no means on a par with what Maradonna did.

I don't think he meant the initial touch, but the second touch, where he intentionally keeps the momentum of the ball going as it teas up perfectly for him is where he cheated. He meant that second touch, IMO there's no doubt about it.

[broadsword]

Yeah I get that bit, but I don't like how the perceived level of cheating somehow equates to the importance of the game.

Cheating is cheating and should never be tolerated, but the more important the game, the more that is at stake and so the more important it is to get the crucial decisions right. That is why there are referees specifically for the Premiership, why the best refs from around the globe are selected for the World Cup, this is a tacit admission that mistakes do happen by referees but they need to be minimised at the highest level.

It's nothing to do with accepting cheating if the match isn't as important, it's to do with being pragmatic and choosing referees who are as adept at the role as the players are at their's.

[Tom]

Fair enough LeC, but many of these players will never have an opportunity of playing at a World Cup. Many of these players play league games every week. This is not just any occasion, its the World Cup and for any player its a great occasion to be there. Any form of cheating is wrong, but if that had happened in a league game, it would just be an issue for a few days, and the players would be at it again in the next match. The Irish will have to wait another 4 years, and there are no guarantees of qualifying. This was a great opportunity, only destroyed by a cheat and a costly mistake by the officials.

Sorry Iccers but all that matters not one iota.

It was a handball which is very very commonplace, the fact that its important to a lot of people is irellevent, it was a booking at most. Talk of bans and such is pathetic.

The outcry is frankly bizarre in my opinion from the majority but understandable from the Irish fans as of course if it happens against you you are outraged.

I take it any time a Rovers player handles a ball these people will jump up shouting for a free kick for the opposition in the future.

[RoyRover]

Liam Brady: "We'd be willing to replay against France in Paris."

Ho ho ho. They got away with a pretty clear penalty, they were getting thoroughly dominated in extra time. If they'd gone through on pens then it would be been an injustice.

Also, I'd much rather have a world cup with France, who might get at least as far as the semi finals and play some good football, than a team that would grind out some dreary 0-0's and hope to luck their way past the group stage.

M-K, I would surprised if France made it out of the group, let alone to the semi finals. They haven't played good football for the last 6 years and that isn't going to change under Domenech. After last nights performance, Ireland would have been more likely to get there, playing some decent stuff.

As a proud Irishman, I'm devastated by last nights result, but I'm trying to look at the result as objectively as I can. Ireland were the better side and had three clear cut chances after their goal to score, but didn't take any of them. For the penalty decision, I don't think it was one. I think that Shay Given does touch Anelka, but Anelka is already falling when the contact occurs. As for the goal, we all know that it should never have happened and should have been spotted. Henry isn't going to stop play and tell the ref that the goal shouldn't stand, not with a place at the World Cup at stake. If it had been an Ireland player who had done it and we got to the World Cup because of it, I would have been sitting here saying that it's terrible and should never have stood, but football is cruel game and sometimes you don't get what you deserve. I would then log off and be delighted that we had qualified.

What enrages me the most, is Sepp Blatter and the corruption that runs through Fifa. Ever since Fifa decided to seed the playoff draw, it was clear to everyone that Fifa wanted the big nations like France, Portugal and Russia (and Germany who also were faced with the possibility of going into the playoffs, had they lost to Russia in Moscow) at the World Cup, because of the money that these countries would generate through sponsorships, TV deals, fan followings and the big name players that play for these nations. Teams like Bosnia, Slovenia and Ireland, just didn't have the same draw and marketing appeal and as such, weren't worthy of a place in the biggest competition on earth. As Blatter said himself, a World Cup without Ronaldo would be unthinkable. Fifa couldn't take the chance that France would draw Portugal and hence be without one of the biggest names in world football, be it Ronaldo or Henry. As a fan obviously I wanted Ireland to qualify so I could support them at the World Cup, but also as it would spit in the face of Fifa for their decision to seed the draw. I was desperate for Bosnia to qualify, firstly because I think they are a good team, with good players, but also because it would be a big up yours to the Fifa big wigs, who despite their best efforts, wouldn't get the teams they wanted at the World Cup.

Fifa spouts this nonsense about Fair Play, while their actions are anything but. Their refusal to bring in video technology to clear up instances like last night is baffling. How is what Henry did, or any similar instances 'Fair Play'? You think of Carlos Tevez incident a few years ago at Ewood Park, that could have been cleared up in a matter of seconds and wouldn't play wouldn't be interrupted, as the game would have been stopped anyway for the goal being given. Or Pedro Mendes effort against United a few years ago, which was a couple of yards over the line. We've seen how in the Europa League how there has been a trial of officials behind the goal. Why does something like this take so long to implement and bring into the biggest games with the biggest prizes on offer. I think that Fifa would prefer there to be elements of doubt about a game, because it allows controversial instances to go unpunished and which big teams in the Premiership, Champions League or international football tend to benefit from.

Robbie Keane is right when he says that Blatter and Platini are probably smiling away to themselves, because this is exactly what they wanted to happen. Giovanni Trapatonni bought up some good points in his press conference earlier on. Why does the 2nd league of a tie have to have extra time? This is an advantage to the home team, as they get an extra 30 minutes in front of their own fans to get the result they want. Why aren't both games 90 minutes long and then penalties? And why were Ireland the only team of the unseeded teams to play their second game away from home. France were seeded in their group and were runners up to Serbia and then they got seeded for the playoffs. Why do they get the advantage of playing the second leg at home as well? Bosnia, Slovenia and Ukraine all had the chance to play at home for in their second leg tie, which would tend to show an element of fairness to the weaker side. But why not Ireland?

This no doubt smacks of sour grapes and that's fair enough, but I can now see why England have such bitter feelings to Maradona and Argentina. The injustice of it all is almost too much to bare. If Ireland had gone through, then I wouldn't have been raising these issues (apart from expressing my delight that Fifa's seeding plan hadn't worked). But when I think of those crooks in Switzerland, counting the pound signs now that France and Portugal have made it, it makes apoplectic. This crap that talk about Fair Play and football being the world's game, is just there to make themselves look half respectable and that they care, when all they are concerned about is money. I would have preferred it if we got humped 4-0, then there could be no argument about who deserved to go through. I would still be disappointed, but wouldn't be left with the same feeling of what if.

[M-K]

M-K, I would surprised if France made it out of the group, let alone to the semi finals. They haven't played good football for the last 6 years and that isn't going to change under Domenech. After last nights performance, Ireland would have been more likely to get there, playing some decent stuff.

France didn't dominate in qualifying for the last one but they still did better than Ireland (or England) could ever hope to do.

For the penalty decision, I don't think it was one. I think that Shay Given does touch Anelka, but Anelka is already falling when the contact occurs.

If that was the other way around, Henry hadn't done the handball and Keane or whoever had been brought down in the dying seconds but no penalty had been given, you'd be fuming! All the Irish players would be going mental on the pitch and they'd have blamed their subsequent penalties defeat on that incident.

It was clear to everyone that Fifa wanted the big nations like France, Portugal and Russia (and Germany who also were faced with the possibility of going into the playoffs, had they lost to Russia in Moscow) at the World Cup, because of the money that these countries would generate through sponsorships, TV deals, fan followings and the big name players that play for these nations.

I want to see those nations at the world cup. Most people probably do. You can have the likes of Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo in the world's biggest tournament or you can have Keith Andrews and, erm, that Bosnian guy. Tough one...

Anyway, hard luck on Ireland but it's for the best (better TV next summer anyway)

[jonv]

France didn't dominate in qualifying for the last one but they still did better than Ireland (or England) could ever hope to do.

If that was the other way around, Henry hadn't done the handball and Keane or whoever had been brought down in the dying seconds but no penalty had been given, you'd be fuming! All the Irish players would be going mental on the pitch and they'd have blamed their subsequent penalties defeat on that incident.

I want to see those nations at the world cup. Most people probably do. You can have the likes of Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo in the world's biggest tournament or you can have Keith Andrews and, erm, that Bosnian guy. Tough one...

Anyway, hard luck on Ireland but it's for the best (better TV next summer anyway)

It's sport not entertainment

[imy9]

Missed the game yesterday and only just seen the replay from the game, disgraceful handball.

The point I think a number of people are missing on here is that I am a massive Thierry Henry fan, I was a fan of what he represented and how he conducted himself on the pitch- with class and dignity. Now because of this incident he will forever be tarnished as a cheat, because that is exactly what it was- cheating. He had the intention to con the ref and got away with it.

The even bigger con was the way the match was set up, seeding teams for the play offs? I am beginning to realise the depths that football has plummeted too.

[M-K]

It's sport not entertainment

It's both. The entertainment part outweighs the sport for me.

An amazing bit of skill from a great player is worth far more to me than seeing spoilers like Greece stinking up an entire tournament and coming out winners.

[mhead]

Bring in Technology for Fair Play.

Maradona's so called "Hand of God" was real cheating ( he saw nothing wrong )

Dougie did what Henry did many times...but it was in black and white TV days.

Progress surely 50 years later and 20 years since Maradona.

[ffan]

It's both. The entertainment part outweighs the sport for me.

An amazing bit of skill from a great player is worth far more to me than seeing spoilers like Greece stinking up an entire tournament and coming out winners.

So it's good that Ireland were blatantly cheated out of it and the bigger, not better, nation went through?

If you actually watched the game you would know that Ireland played much better football.

[RoyRover]

France didn't dominate in qualifying for the last one but they still did better than Ireland (or England) could ever hope to do.

If that was the other way around, Henry hadn't done the handball and Keane or whoever had been brought down in the dying seconds but no penalty had been given, you'd be fuming! All the Irish players would be going mental on the pitch and they'd have blamed their subsequent penalties defeat on that incident.

I want to see those nations at the world cup. Most people probably do. You can have the likes of Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo in the world's biggest tournament or you can have Keith Andrews and, erm, that Bosnian guy. Tough one...

Anyway, hard luck on Ireland but it's for the best (better TV next summer anyway)

Please yourself, but France are shocking side and a shadow of their former selves. I actually said that if had been the other way around and an Ireland player had done what Henry did, I would have been delighted because we would have made the World Cup. You can watch some flash players playing for some second rate nations, which I'm afraid they are now. I used to love Portugal and France, but they have gone backwards. So yeah you can watch tired, turgid Henry, struggle in a French team and Ronaldo hoping that someone else turns up for Portugal so he doesn't have to do it all himself and it wouldn't be any better than watching Ireland, or watching Bosnia with their new breed of quality footballers like Edin Dzeko, Vedad Ibesivic, Miralem Pjanic and Zvjedan Misimovic, who are ever bit as good as anything that France or Portugal have to offer (but because they don't appear in Nike commercials doing step overs, gel their hair, or play for Real Madrid, earn £100,000 a week and shag supermodels, people don't care). The idea that it's for the best, because it will make for better TV is quite a way to look at it. May I ask what country you follow?

[Rovermatt]

I want to see those nations at the world cup. Most people probably do. You can have the likes of Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo in the world's biggest tournament or you can have Keith Andrews and, erm, that Bosnian guy. Tough one...

Anyway, hard luck on Ireland but it's for the best (better TV next summer anyway)

Gibberish. If you can't get through automatically, then you don't deserve to have your path cleared for any easy walk to the finals. France had their chance in the group stages and they blew it. What justification is there for seeding the draw other than to ensure the large nations are kept apart. It's disgusting. This is the World Cup not the bloody WWE. Merit, not brand recognition, is what matters.

[ABBEY]

should of won your group matty boy should of won your group .

[T4E]

So basically, anything goes, and it's up to the referee to spot it? There's no expectation upon the players to conduct themselves in a sporting manner, because the ref is there to punish them?

I wont comment on what we should be able to expect, but the reality is as I painted it. The lesson from last night is that the current way in which football matches are officiated are not sufficient to ensure a fair result. That lesson needs to be learned, and quickly. Unless of course we think we can rely on the players to be self-policing.

Perhaps we should be able to expect that, but in reality that is naive at best.

[Rovermatt]

should of won your group matty boy should of won your group .

The French should of [sic] won theirs too perhaps...

[ABBEY]

perhaps but perhaps they didnt.

[Rovermatt]

perhaps but perhaps they didnt.

Perhaps they didn't? No,I'm fairly certain they didn't win their group.