[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Zulu]

Rubbish. Firstly we don't need and won't get an outright winner, people who actually win lots of stuff wouldn't come near our club.

But your first example was at the start of his career...hadly fair is it? At least he got Blackpool into that position.

Second example is again an awful argument, Bolton only finished 5 points above Boro in the final table that season and past trophies means absolutely nothing especially since Boltons last was in 1953, so it was a pretty evenly matched contest which Boro won 2-1. In a one off match.

Shall we forget their win at Anfield in the fourth round and their 5-2 thrashing of Aston Villa in the semis that year(who finished 2 places above them that year)?

Thought not.

"Definitely not Blackburn Rovers" :lol: Fabio Capello is definitely not Blackburn Rovers either, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind him. What does that even mean?! We want the best man for the job who we stand a chance of getting.

And if you honestly care about the press, especially after reading a certain Oliver Holt's piece, then your opinion has to be worth very little. We got some bad press under Hughes.

How very dare you! 1958 actually! (We lost that bugger in 1953!) Rest of your post is bob on though.

[92er]

How very dare you! 1958 actually! (We lost that bugger in 1953!) Rest of your post is bob on though.

Who did you beat in the semi-final?

[AndyC]

A lot of the criticism we had recieved under Hughes was as a result of lazy journalism and bias. It was largely underserved. That wont be the case under Allardyce.

and there lies the problem with many rovers fans.

you actually believe the bad press wasnt warranted for hughes, but believe everything negative about big sam.

oh the irony

[JAL]

Rubbish. Firstly we don't need and won't get an outright winner, people who actually win lots of stuff wouldn't come near our club.

But your first example was at the start of his career...hadly fair is it? At least he got Blackpool into that position.

Second example is again an awful argument, Bolton only finished 5 points above Boro in the final table that season and past trophies means absolutely nothing especially since Boltons last was in 1953, so it was a pretty evenly matched contest which Boro won 2-1. In a one off match.

Shall we forget their win at Anfield in the fourth round and their 5-2 thrashing of Aston Villa in the semis that year(who finished 2 places above them that year)?

Thought not.

"Definitely not Blackburn Rovers" :lol: Fabio Capello is definitely not Blackburn Rovers either, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind him. What does that even mean?! We want the best man for the job who we stand a chance of getting.

And if you honestly care about the press, especially after reading a certain Oliver Holt's piece, then your opinion has to be worth very little. We got some bad press under Hughes.

Dalglish came, Souness came, Ince came, Hughes came, even WOY came all can be categorised as winners in their own time who then found Blackburn Rovers as an attractive proposition to their careers, they came so how many things has Big Fat Sam won in his entire career I bet it doesnt come anywhere near the previous gentlemen.

Big Sam - best man for the job youre having a laugh !

The big SAM brand of football,

work on the set pieces.

play for the second ball.

kick the ball so high into the sky that opposition lose sight of the ball, nip in and take full advantage.

Argument whose arguing face facts Tony hes not the man.

[tony gale's mic]

Dalglish came, Souness came, Ince came, Hughes came, even WOY came all can be categorised as winners in their own time who then found Blackburn Rovers as an attractive proposition to their careers, they came so how many things has Big Fat Sam won in his entire career I bet it doesnt come anywhere near the previous gentlemen.

Big Sam - best man for the job youre having a laugh !

The big SAM brand of football,

work on the set pieces.

play for the second ball.

kick the ball so high into the sky that opposition lose sight of the ball, nip in and take full advantage.

Argument whose arguing face facts Tony hes not the man.

"Face facts" I don't see any facts.

Playing success does not mean anything towards being a great manager. If someone tries making that argument it's pretty obvious theyre a bit clueless. Ferguson. Wenger. Scolari. Benitez. Mourinho. What did they ever win in their playing careers?

Allardyce is as much of a winner in management than Hughes and certainly much more of a winner so far than Ince.

Would you rather we challenged for Europe regularly, had some nights against big European clubs like Portsmouth tonight, even if the football wasn't pretty? Or would you rather we played nicely (it's not like we played vintage under Hughes) and battled relegation? You still won't answer this one.

Face facts, you're just trying to justify your dislike for the man.

[JAL]

"Face facts" I don't see any facts.

Playing success does not mean anything towards being a great manager. If someone tries making that argument it's pretty obvious theyre a bit clueless. Ferguson. Wenger. Scolari. Benitez. Mourinho. What did they ever win in their playing careers?

Allardyce is as much of a winner in management than Hughes and certainly much more of a winner so far than Ince.

Would you rather we challenged for Europe regularly, had some nights against big European clubs like Portsmouth tonight, even if the football wasn't pretty? Or would you rather we played nicely (it's not like we played vintage under Hughes) and battled relegation? You still won't answer this one.

Face facts, you're just trying to justify your dislike for the man.

I disagree with you Tony you seem so infatuated with Allardyce, whatever I put in front of you, your blinkered vision would be incapable of seeing it.

All the above managers had won something at their previous clubs which poses the question what has Allardyce ever won other than a few extra bob from a relative on a dodgy transfer deal - remember.

Allardyce does not fit into my model of Blackburn Rovers and never will its not about disliking the guy its about the fit and proper person for Blackburn Rovers.

[tony gale's mic]

I disagree with you Tony you seem so infatuated with Allardyce, whatever I put in front of you, your blinkered vision would be incapable of seeing it.

All the above managers had won something at their previous clubs which poses the question what has Allardyce ever won other than a few extra bob from a relative on a dodgy transfer deal - remember.

Allardyce does not fit into my model of Blackburn Rovers and never will its not about disliking the guy its about the fit and proper person for Blackburn Rovers.

You seem infatuated with your dislike of Allardyce. I'm infatuated with Rovers doing well, and I think Allardyce is the best man for it.

What's worth more? Keeping a team like Bolton consistently challenging for Europe or winning some two bit lower league trophy? What has Hughes won as a manager? Nothing. Ince has won more than Hughes as a manager, therefore Ince MUST be a better manager than Hughes. Right? How many "winners" do we have as options available to us?! I doubt they'll be beating down our door you know. Unless, of course, you can name me one. I hear Mourinho is getting tired of Milan.

And you still won't answer my question that I've posed several times about contending for Europe and not playing pretty football, or fighting relegation and playing pretty football.

[tonygreenbank]

Why all the fascination with Allardyce as manager? He had his chance and was passed over. End of... Let`s get behind the current manager. Why should a change of manager at this time guarantee survival? why is Ince a guaranteed failure? I thought there were 20 odd games left this season. Lets see what happens in January.

[tony gale's mic]

It's a shame the US constitution stopped Bush from serving more terms; I'm sure with another fifty years in charge he would've brought world peace.

[FourLaneBlue]

and there lies the problem with many rovers fans.

you actually believe the bad press wasnt warranted for hughes, but believe everything negative about big sam.

oh the irony

Touché and spot on.

[neekoy]

It's a shame the US constitution stopped Bush from serving more terms; I'm sure with another fifty years in charge he would've brought world peace.

Just had to quote this, brilliant.

Allardyce played boring ass football because that is what he had to do to compete with Bolton. Same as when Hughes was with us, he played to win.

I am sure both of those blokes didn't necessarily want people to say they were boring managers with boring football teams, but they both did what they had to to get ther teams over the line.

[47er]

Why all the fascination with Allardyce as manager? He had his chance and was passed over. End of... Let`s get behind the current manager. Why should a change of manager at this time guarantee survival? why is Ince a guaranteed failure? I thought there were 20 odd games left this season. Lets see what happens in January.

Reads like unwarranted complacency to me. Lets do nothing till its too late.

[philipl]

Some cracking lines in the posts above!

Looks like Forest would go for Billy Davies and not Sam Allardyce if they change Managers at the week-end.

[Zulu]

Who did you beat in the semi-final?

Everton in 1953. Blackburn Rovers in 1958. But you knew the answer to one of them already!

[Zulu]

The big SAM brand of football,

work on the set pieces. Yes, part of his overall plan.

play for the second ball. Yes, part of his overall plan.

kick the ball so high into the sky that opposition lose sight of the ball, nip in and take full advantage. Oh dear - and you were doing so well.

Oh, and by the way, what percentage of Rovers goals this season (or last season for that matter) came from set pieces. I don't know the answer but I would imagine it's quite high. That's football, you see. Set pieces are a big part of the game. It's not illegal.

Bendter just scored the winner for Arsenal in Europe with a ball that was welted 80 yards over the back four and into his path. But I never read anyone in the media saying that Arsenal play route 1 football. Cos they play total football, innit?

[Mr Creosote]

and there lies the problem with many rovers fans.

you actually believe the bad press wasnt warranted for hughes, but believe everything negative about big sam.

oh the irony

Give over. There's a universe of difference between Hughes' Rovers and Allardyce's Bolton. Dont be daft.

[tony gale's mic]

Give over. There's a universe of difference between Hughes' Rovers and Allardyce's Bolton. Dont be daft.

In what way?

There really isn't a universe of difference in the quality of football played. We probably did play the better football but it was hardly like watching Brazil most of the time.

And remember which side did worse in the fair play league...

[Mr Creosote]

In what way?

There really isn't a universe of difference in the quality of football played. We probably did play the better football but it was hardly like watching Brazil most of the time.

And remember which side did worse in the fair play league...

Well, you answered your question with your second sentance. (no probably about it if you are honest)

There's nothing wrong with a physical but fair approach to the game. By the way, were you one of those who were saying that refs had two Rovers names in their book before kick off when we were bottom of the fair play league?

[tony gale's mic]

Well, you answered your question with your second sentance. (no probably about it if you are honest)

There's nothing wrong with a physical but fair approach to the game. By the way, were you one of those who were saying that refs had two Rovers names in their book before kick off when we were bottom of the fair play league?

There wasn't a universe of difference though was there? Compared to the type of football, say, Villa play, I'd say we both played pretty unattractive football. We wouldn't be sacrificing much if we appointed him as manager, and as I keep asking but noone ever answers, would you rather we played slightly worse football and competed for Europe, or played a bit better football and battled relegation?

And I think our placing at the bottom of that league was a little unfair yes, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a large ring of truth in it too. We were a tough tackling side, god knows I wish we'd start showing that fight again, but there was a reason why both Hughes and Allardyce didn't go down the pretty football route - they realised results were far more important.

[Mr Creosote]

There wasn't a universe of difference though was there? Compared to the type of football, say, Villa play, I'd say we both played pretty unattractive football. We wouldn't be sacrificing much if we appointed him as manager, and as I keep asking but noone ever answers, would you rather we played slightly worse football and competed for Europe, or played a bit better football and battled relegation?

And I think our placing at the bottom of that league was a little unfair yes, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a large ring of truth in it too. We were a tough tackling side, god knows I wish we'd start showing that fight again, but there was a reason why both Hughes and Allardyce didn't go down the pretty football route - they realised results were far more important.

There was a massive difference. Under Hughes Rovers did not engage in feigning injury to disrupt the flow of the game, attempt to knock the opposition out of their rhythm with niggling fouls that conceded free kicks in none dangerous areas and were not quite bookable. We did not hoof the ball into corners for territorial gain nor did we play for free kicks, corners and throw ins.

I'm sure that, if I could be @rsed trawling, I would find many of those championing Alardyce slagging off Bolton in the not to distant past. I can understand why they want Alaardyce now in these depressing, worrying times. He did achieve remarkable results at the Breezeblock (spending fortunes on wages).

IF Ince gets the sack I can see Rovers approaching him. IF (and imo it's a big if) he accepts then I'll back him. However if, as I suspect he will, he has us playing like a quasi rugby team then honestly I'd rather we were a real football team in the championship.

[JAL]

Oh, and by the way, what percentage of Rovers goals this season (or last season for that matter) came from set pieces. I don't know the answer but I would imagine it's quite high. That's football, you see. Set pieces are a big part of the game. It's not illegal.

Bendter just scored the winner for Arsenal in Europe with a ball that was welted 80 yards over the back four and into his path. But I never read anyone in the media saying that Arsenal play route 1 football. Cos they play total football, innit?

A big difference for me on set pieces was that Bolton always seemed to score more from the second ball off a set piece were as Rovers free kicks just hit the back of the net.

Always like a long ball played into or onto a quick striker for me though Boltons long ball seemed more up and under rather than directional.

[Majiball]

I have to agree with you there JAL, Bolton's up and under game is not welcome at Ewood. I've always liked the long pass into space up front as well when used correctly can be a potent weapon. BFS thinks it should be used at every opportunity. We've tried this a lot this year firstly with long sweeping switch balls and now with long balls up to RSC. Its doing my swede in, every-time Robbo gets the ball you know he's going to try and hit RSC but the ball just comes back. It doesn't help the cause when you constantly give the ball back.

With Ref to set pieces on one of the FA's many courses I was sure they said that the amount of goals that transpire from them was just above 30% total in our country.

[CrazyIvan]

I wouldn't want to see the 'up and under' football that has been Bolton's stock in trade for years but the good 'long' ball is direct and can be a very potent weapon. Drogba thrives on them. Whether BFS would resort to that tactic is a moot point right now but I wouldn't want to see it regularly if he were in charge but I suspect I would. I've posted previously why I wouldn't want to see BFS at Ewood so I won't go over that again but if he became Rovers manager I'd back him for the very reason that his success means ours etc...

On set pieces, we were pretty awful at them for a couple of seasons. I remember a lot of corners that lead to nothing at all. People around me used to say that they couldn't remember the last time we scored from a set piece. We're better at them this season and in my mind a well taken set piece can be a beautiful thing to watch, it isn't always I'll grant you but some free kicks are just wonderful pieces of skill that have to be applauded.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I wouldn't want to see the 'up and under' football that has been Bolton's stock in trade for years but the good 'long' ball is direct and can be a very potent weapon. Drogba thrives on them.

I am not a huge fan of BFS - but I do think that, IF we get rid of Ince, he is the outstanding candidate to get us out of the bottom three (though lets remember we aren't yet cut adrift at the bottom - and a couple of wins would make things far more comfortable).

I think we should address this question of long ball tactics - Bolton were very effective at playing the game in the opponents half. Even under Dalglish we played a far percentage of longer balls - the important thing was that they were accurate. You aren't going to tell me that Bolton games aren't exciting to watch - they may not be for the purist - but they did :-

1. Always give 100%

2. Often got results against top teams

3. Played a high degree of their football in the opponents half

An aspect of their game - which is probably what most upset the top 4 run media - was the way they pressed the play and the person with the ball.

Every time we have played them - even when we have been the better team - you can never feel comfortable - and they always gave their fans something to shout about.

Many people may not like it - but for a small team in Lancashire, with limited budget, we aren't able to play like Arsenal. Funnily enough I think that is what is Ince is trying to do - and yet he gets lambasted by people on this MB !

[Majiball]

I wouldn't want to see the 'up and under' football that has been Bolton's stock in trade for years but the good 'long' ball is direct and can be a very potent weapon.

Do you not think we are witnessing a lot of long ball at the moment?

I suppose I would lend my support to BFS if he was chosen purely for the same reasons it was given to Ince. However as a fan I'm not convinced that my support should be reluctantly given, I want to be inspired, excited by a managerial appointment so my support is whole hearted. Now don't take that as it will not be given or anything else of the sort just that I want to see proven ability not potential in charge. Its the one position at a club like ours that must have some guarantees IE he's a motivator/tactician/transfer master.