[Archived] Xmas Number One - Do Your Bit!

[Al]

That's such a narrow-minded viewpoint for somebody who usually comes across as intelligent. Why are you struggling with the concept that not everybody opposes the X-Factor because they are trying to be cool?

Because most of them are!

[Clitherover]

Who's sad enough to actually go out and buy a CD single these days apart from 13 year old girls anyway...

[bellamy11]

Because most of them are!

So now "all" has been downgraded to "most". Have you actually got any evidence to support this, by the way?

Some very reasonable points have been made in this thread which you have ignored and rather childishly dismissed as people posturing or acting trendy.

The lad who has won faces a very difficult task to establish any longevity in this industry. It remains to be seen whether he has any talent beyond singing well and crying. that's what sorts out the men from the boys, and the Leona Lewis' from the Leon Jacksons. it's a sad state of affairs when these people are held up as some sort of role models or shining examples of talent when they are among the main culprits in the total and utter degeneration of pop music.

[broadsword]

I thought Al was a mite more independant of thought... I've grown up listening to music that is not manufactured in the way a large number of artists in the current charts are. What annoys me about Cowell, X-Factor and the like is the 'stuff it down your throat, you WILL like this' of it all. No matter what anybody says, the music world has always had the manufactured band or the chosen person The problem is that there are so many of them in the charts these days.

Bland, corporate pop is the culture being fed to kids these days. Does anybody think that this situation is entirely self-propagating and reduces kids to consumers with little thought or choice? That annoys me a lot more. I'd rather hear a band that writes their own music, plays in their own style and has something to say than be fed a McDonalds Chicken Nugget of pop that does little but propagate the same choice. Having more choice leads kids to think individually eventually...

I choose to buy this record because I wish to have a choice about what bands music I can buy and among the corporate manufactured bands there isn't one in there. The genuine talents that are out there but don't get heard because they are not play-things of the music industry and can't sell 10,000,000 records (because they're never heard!) might get picked up by a label but then get dropped because of that self-propagating situation etc etc...

I'd rather listen to Foo Fighters, Linkin Park, Mark Knopfler, James Taylor, Chris Rea, Muse, Green Day all of whom right their own songs...

Very well said that man.

It's like Hollywood. a studio has a hit film, they immediately say to the director: "Make us another one", that philosophy sees us end up with a pile of Die Hard clones, or a host of movie parodies that insult people's intelligence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB_2oIKUVks

[T4E]

I can't see this posted anywhere on the thread -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AYUqVNSsY

Zack De La Rocha's mouth super imposed on to Jedward. Brilliant.

[Bing]

RATM performing live on 5Live. This was only ever going to end one way...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWaX8P1nqyg

[T4E]

They asked a band called "Rage Against The Machine" to sing a song with many cuss words live on air, but not to swear. What did they expect to happen? Idiots.

[Al]

So now "all" has been downgraded to "most". Have you actually got any evidence to support this, by the way?

Some very reasonable points have been made in this thread which you have ignored and rather childishly dismissed as people posturing or acting trendy.

The lad who has won faces a very difficult task to establish any longevity in this industry. It remains to be seen whether he has any talent beyond singing well and crying. that's what sorts out the men from the boys, and the Leona Lewis' from the Leon Jacksons. it's a sad state of affairs when these people are held up as some sort of role models or shining examples of talent when they are among the main culprits in the total and utter degeneration of pop music.

Please show me when I said 'all'. There are people who genuinly do not like every programme but there are many more who just wish to appear 'cool'.

Why is it childish to hold a view that does not coincide with yours?

Now you have reached the point when you have run out of arguments so you are attacking me personally. The point is you are well into the minority in your view, proven by the viewing figures.

[brian_gallagher85]

I would like to point out that I have and always will despise everyone of these money making gimmicks masquerading as "talent" shows. My support of RATM and hatred for X Factor is nothing new and in no way a vain attempt to appear "cool"

[tony gale's mic]

Al, I find it a little troubling that a grown man would express your opinions. Other people have offered solid arguments like originality, creativity and artistic worth when offering their viewpoint. It's very hard to argue they shouldn't be essential elements in good music. Feel free to argue this point but you havent responded to it so far.

Now what actually qualifies as originality, creativity and artistic worth is up for debate. The poster previously mentioned Green Day, whose stuff I'm not especially keen on but if he sat down and tried to argue that they had those things in abundance then although I'd disagree, its not an argument that I could argue too much against (well they are kinda pop punk knock offs) as at least they write their own music. The rest is subjective.

There's also three or four (?) guys in the band each with their own individual skill and while I'm not a fan, I'd imagine he likes hearing how the different elements of the sound come together - again another integral part of almost every form of music, from classical to popular.

NONE of those things are element in X factor. No originality - someone else's songs. No creativity - it's always the same style of interpretation, much the same as hearing someone sing on a cruise ship for example. But then cruise ship entertainment isnt usually billed as brilliant music like some idiots bill X factor as. If we had some really fresh and alternative sounding covers then it'd be something. I mean I absolutely hated Mark Ronson's covers album "Version" but at least he did something different with the tracks, even if a couple of brilliant songs ended up being butchered and the outcomes were poor. And if you can tell me the artistic worth of someone effectively doing a really good karaoke is, then feel free to tell me.

All your argument revolves around is the viewing figures. I've seen little else. People watch it as REALITY TELEVISION, it doesnt mean the stuff thats spewed out of it is any good. Do you know what "water cooler" means when applied to something? Its watched by people just like a soap opera is watched by people. Eastenders gets viewing figures of tens of millions, does that mean it's in the same league as a piece of television to high quality dramas like The Wire which got pitifully low viewing figures when it was shown on BBC2? Of course it doesn't. Noone would ever try and claim that argument so why do you try and use viewing figures to justify the worth of the X factor single?

People want to see a song thats got some artistic value get to number 1, not some awful Hannah Montana cover, I actually couldnt think of a worse musical possibility than a Hannah Montana cover but Cowell has only gone and done it.

People aren't just trying to be cool. Well I'm sure some are, but most really aren't.

[brian_gallagher85]

Some excellent points made there, I doth my cap

[Al]

Al, I find it a little troubling that a grown man would express your opinions. Other people have offered solid arguments like originality, creativity and artistic worth when offering their viewpoint. It's very hard to argue they shouldn't be essential elements in good music. Feel free to argue this point but you havent responded to it so far.

Now what actually qualifies as originality, creativity and artistic worth is up for debate. The poster previously mentioned Green Day, whose stuff I'm not especially keen on but if he sat down and tried to argue that they had those things in abundance then although I'd disagree, its not an argument that I could argue too much against (well they are kinda pop punk knock offs) as at least they write their own music. The rest is subjective.

There's also three or four (?) guys in the band each with their own individual skill and while I'm not a fan, I'd imagine he likes hearing how the different elements of the sound come together - again another integral part of almost every form of music, from classical to popular.

NONE of those things are element in X factor. No originality - someone else's songs. No creativity - it's always the same style of interpretation, much the same as hearing someone sing on a cruise ship for example. But then cruise ship entertainment isnt usually billed as brilliant music like some idiots bill X factor as. If we had some really fresh and alternative sounding covers then it'd be something. I mean I absolutely hated Mark Ronson's covers album "Version" but at least he did something different with the tracks, even if a couple of brilliant songs ended up being butchered and the outcomes were poor. And if you can tell me the artistic worth of someone effectively doing a really good karaoke is, then feel free to tell me.

For Christ's sake man don't take on so. X Factor is not trying to be a paragon of virtue. Wether or not it is classical music or pop (which it is not, it is MOR) it is an entertainment and does not pretend to be anything else. As such it entertains the nation with the possible exception of a miserable few who like to find fault in anything on mainstream TV.

If it finds a star or two along the way, that is a bonus and yes winning it is only a start and it is up to the individual then to make a career as a few have. If it does not entertain you you don't have to watch but please do not criticise the ones who do

All your argument revolves around is the viewing figures. I've seen little else. People watch it as REALITY TELEVISION, it doesnt mean the stuff thats spewed out of it is any good. Do you know what "water cooler" means when applied to something? Its watched by people just like a soap opera is watched by people. Eastenders gets viewing figures of tens of millions, does that mean it's in the same league as a piece of television to high quality dramas like The Wire which got pitifully low viewing figures when it was shown on BBC2? Of course it doesn't. Noone would ever try and claim that argument so why do you try and use viewing figures to justify the worth of the X factor single?

People want to see a song thats got some artistic value get to number 1, not some awful Hannah Montana cover, I actually couldnt think of a worse musical possibility than a Hannah Montana cover but Cowell has only gone and done it.

People aren't just trying to be cool. Well I'm sure some are, but most really aren't.

I had a long reply to that diatribe but lost it somewhere in posting and have no intention of repeating it all but in summary, X factor is purely an entertainment and I find it a little strange that so called intelligent people get so upset by a programme that merely seeks,and succeeds, to entertain the nation.

[SouthAussieRover]

I had a long reply to that diatribe but lost it somewhere in posting and have no intention of repeating it all but in summary, X factor is purely an entertainment and I find it a little strange that so called intelligent people get so upset by a programme that merely seeks,and succeeds, to entertain the nation.

Hey there Al.

Have you ever watched Love Actually?

Just hum "love is all around me" to yourself and chill out.

It's Christmas after all

[Al]

Humbug

[cletus]

Please show me when I said 'all'. There are people who genuinly do not like every programme but there are many more who just wish to appear 'cool'.

Why is it childish to hold a view that does not coincide with yours?

Now you have reached the point when you have run out of arguments so you are attacking me personally. The point is you are well into the minority in your view, proven by the viewing figures.

??????

I heard somewhere, 19million people tuned in to the final show last week. Very good figures indeed Al, but it also means around 40million decided NOT to tune in, so that means whoever made the comment you were answering to is NOT in the minority, he`s in the MAJORITY lol

btw....I watched almost every episode of x-factor, mainly cos my gf likes to watch it. Each week i watched every contestant & gave my honest view. If the were good, i said so. If they were sh1t, i pointed out they were sh1t.......much to my gf`s annoyance She`d say stupid stuff like "Leave him alone, he`s lovely" I then pointed out it was supposed to be a TALENT COMPETITION not a POPULARITY COMPETITION. Most of Simon Cowell`s opinions were good, honest & accurate. He`s looking for a singer with a good voice & a pretty face, who can sing the songs he gives them, thus making him & the record company squillions of pounds. The singer/stooge he chooses to sing, gets their moment of fame & also gets handsomely paid for their efforts.

Not wanting to sound like the Creme Brulet guy out of League of Gentlemen but, it`s a sh1t business.

btw....i asked my gf to download the Rage Against The Machine song for me, because i`ve not got i-tunes (i prefer to get my stuff for free) but explained to her, it`s not the fact we`ve downloaded the song (which is a good song) but the fact we are giving a big "F### YOU!!!!" to people like Cowell who try to control our thought processess & try to tell us what is good & what isn`t.

[CrazyIvan]

btw....i asked my gf to download the Rage Against The Machine song for me, because i`ve not got i-tunes (i prefer to get my stuff for free) but explained to her, it`s not the fact we`ve downloaded the song (which is a good song) but the fact we are giving a big "F### YOU!!!!" to people like Cowell who try to control our thought processess & try to tell us what is good & what isn`t.

Exactly!

[Baz]

There are a number of things that annoy me about x-factor.

Firstly - good singers who don't match what the judges call the "x-factor" (i.e. don't look like they will appeal to mass-markets) are dropped well in advance of any live shows, where the public has a chance to vote. Hardly makes it a "talent show" does it? Also, why do we have to have 3 boys, 3 girls, 3 groups & 3 over 25's (why 25 anyway?)- why not just the best 12 artists?

Secondly - why does it drag on so long - why have 6 weeks of auditions and "boot-camp"? - Also, why cant the bottom two be voted off for the first few weeks - shortening the length of the series.

Thirdly - at times its on for over 2 hours with 6-7 singers but only 1x 2-3 minute song each.

Fourthly - "Themes" - Abba Night, George Michael night - Swing night - Queen night - why not just let them sing what they intend them to sing if they get a deal?

Fifth - Why this year have we also had to endure Sunday evenings? Purely a money making exercise.

As for buying RATM - well no thanks, its only making more x-factor fans buy the single anyway - Simon must be delighted.

[Claytons Left Boot]

As with most things these days, it's entertainment for the dummed down masses. Like on Eastenders or Coronation Street or Judge Judy or blah, blah, blah, there has to be arguing, shouting and confrontation. Hence the judges bicker amongst themselves continually, there are a few tears and so on. The masses have an attention span of no more than two or three minutes, so the theatricals keep them tuned in. Surprise, surprise, when it got down to the last three contestants, where Cowell starts to get $$$$ in his sights, the bickering stops and the judges concentrate purely on the performers' abilities.

Similarly, as well as the confrontation etc, the masses also demand humiliation. That's why, in the early shows, viewers are subjected to the absolutely deluded idiots who can't string two words together let alone two notes, who somehow think they are going to be the next big thing.

How television has changed.

[Rovermatt]

Similarly, as well as the confrontation etc, the masses also demand humiliation. That's why, in the early shows, viewers are subjected to the absolutely deluded idiots who can't string two words together let alone two notes, who somehow think they are going to be the next big thing.

Very true. Is it not the case that of the thousands who turn out for the auditions, only a fraction of those people actually go in front of the judges? People are screened so if you're good you get through to the judges' audition but if you're really bad or a complete lunatic you'll also go through to that stage. It's very cynical.

[bellamy11]

Very true. Is it not the case that of the thousands who turn out for the auditions, only a fraction of those people actually go in front of the judges. People are screened so if you're good you get through to the judges' audition but if you're really bad or a complete lunatic you'll also go through to that stage.

My ex auditioned and that's exactly what happened. Most people have to leave after singing in groups or to people with clipboards. Hilariously bad people are kept in so that people can spend their Saturday evening watching fools being humiliated in public.

More surprisingly (or perhaps not, as the case may be), some people are eliminated without seeing judges based purely on their looks - even good singers. Again, the real uggos with the potential to embarass themselves are allowed to stay. Plenty of Plain Janes are not.

[mellison24]

My ex auditioned and that's exactly what happened. Most people have to leave after singing in groups or to people with clipboards. Hilariously bad people are kept in so that people can spend their Saturday evening watching fools being humiliated in public.

More surprisingly (or perhaps not, as the case may be), some people are eliminated without seeing judges based purely on their looks - even good singers. Again, the real uggos with the potential to embarass themselves are allowed to stay. Plenty of Plain Janes are not.

This is why BGT is better. It's straight to the main judges. My cousin was that wee 6yr old who did magic tricks this year if anyone remembers.

[Ricky]

and don't tell me your little sister was the wee lass who burst into tears and your mams Susan Boyle!!!!

[Tom]

Did you not know Ricky, Mellison is the the little hyper kid in Diversity.

[Al]

As with most things these days, it's entertainment for the dummed down masses. Like on Eastenders or Coronation Street or Judge Judy or blah, blah, blah, there has to be arguing, shouting and confrontation. Hence the judges bicker amongst themselves continually, there are a few tears and so on. The masses have an attention span of no more than two or three minutes, so the theatricals keep them tuned in. Surprise, surprise, when it got down to the last three contestants, where Cowell starts to get $$$$ in his sights, the bickering stops and the judges concentrate purely on the performers' abilities.

Similarly, as well as the confrontation etc, the masses also demand humiliation. That's why, in the early shows, viewers are subjected to the absolutely deluded idiots who can't string two words together let alone two notes, who somehow think they are going to be the next big thing.

How television has changed.

You need to be dumb not to know how to spell 'Dumb'.

[cletus]

X-factor winner Joe McEldery was said to be 'over the moon' to hear that George Michael would 'love to hang out with him'

....Apparently it was a mis-quote, George had said he`d 'love to hang out of him'

Joe, is said to be 'still over the moon'