[Archived] Steve Kean

[den]

Well, there's a difference between Kentaro recommending a player to Kean, and them going over his head to sign them.

You think Hughes knew who Chris Samba was before the scouts spotted him?

It's all splitting hairs, really.

Splitting hairs?

Hughes absolutely knew who Samba was before he signed him, because he brought him in on trial. Kean told us that Formica was another Batistuta and probably never saw him play before signing him - on the recommendation of that nice agent. Two different worlds.

It's amazing how some of our posters - who had made their mind up about Allardyce before he even accepted the job - still see nothing wrong with the way Venky's sacked Sam, the involvement of Anderson, the pathetic attempts to play pretty football or the sacking of John Williams.

They must be really baffled as to why we are so very close to relegation within 6 months of these events. "well I didn't want Steve Kean" is the only kind of validation that we hear. Problem is, did they realise the huge gamble being taken? Did they realise that the appointment of any manager is a gamble? Maybe they did and maybe they didn't care as long as Allardyce had gone.

[RevidgeBlue]

Splitting hairs?

Kean told us that Formica was another Batistuta

Link?

[Amo]

Splitting hairs?

Hughes absolutely knew who Samba was before he signed him, because he brought him in on trial. Kean told us that Formica was another Batistuta and probably never saw him play before signing him - on the recommendation of that nice agent. Two different worlds.

Yeah, I forgot what a household name Chris Samba was before he came here. That's exactly why he came in on trial, so Hughes could take a closer look at this unknown quantity. It's not like Hughes set out to sign Samba when the window opened.

It's amazing how some of our posters - who had made their mind up about Allardyce before he even accepted the job - still see nothing wrong with the way Venky's sacked Sam, the involvement of Anderson, the pathetic attempts to play pretty football or the sacking of John Williams.

Which posters are these?

Or is this the usual tactic of forcing members to justify themselves over and over again, when you know the truth?

[den]

Link?

My link

[Mercer]

My link

Little surprise who penned the article!

[John]

Or is this the usual tactic of forcing members to justify themselves over and over again, when you know the trut

To be fair, you were certainly repetitive enough commenting on our previous manager (negatively) and how we should be winning matches by playing a more attractive brand of football. Continuously criticising a manager who ultimately was good for our football club.

[Seggie]

We have no idea how much input Kean had into the Jones deal. My honest belief is that someone in the club would have said "we've lined up a deal for Jermaine Jones, you want him?" and Kean responded positively. It's not uncommon, Daniel Levy bought Van Der Vaart for Spurs in this way.

If the manager gets offered certain players from the board and he thinks they are right for the team then there shouldn't be a problem in doing deals this way, it is when players are forced upon the manager when problems arise (See Mourinho and Schevchenko). If I was 'arry Id have bit Levy's hand off at Van Der Vaart too but owners need to know where the line is with regards to team matters is.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

So in which way has he not done too bad?

Bringing in J Jones on loan

Development of Hoilett

Development of Olsson

Longer term - I think we will see Rochina as a good buy

Recently - finally seeming to get the balance right

Though this will be controversial - stabalising the club following Sam's sacking - continuing to keep up player morale - keeping a positive attitude (though maybe at times overly positive). I do think that he has (to an extent) protected the players at a time when he could have laid the blame on them (especially considering his experience).

None of this makes him a good manager - or excuses his points return - but though many will no doubt disagree - I don't go along with the theory that he is behind all the clubs current woes.

[tony gale's mic]

I still find it amusing that the same people who criticised Sam with most of their posts are the same people defending Kean with most of their posts.

Doesnt make any kind of logical sense, but there you go.

[BPF]

Bringing in J Jones on loan

Development of Hoilett

Development of Olsson

Longer term - I think we will see Rochina as a good buy

Recently - finally seeming to get the balance right

Though this will be controversial - stabalising the club following Sam's sacking - continuing to keep up player morale - keeping a positive attitude (though maybe at times overly positive). I do think that he has (to an extent) protected the players at a time when he could have laid the blame on them (especially considering his experience).

None of this makes him a good manager - or excuses his points return - but though many will no doubt disagree - I don't go along with the theory that he is behind all the clubs current woes.

Last game mentality.

Alive and well.

[den]

Bringing in J Jones on loan

Development of Hoilett

Development of Olsson

Longer term - I think we will see Rochina as a good buy

Recently - finally seeming to get the balance right

Though this will be controversial - stabalising the club following Sam's sacking - continuing to keep up player morale - keeping a positive attitude (though maybe at times overly positive). I do think that he has (to an extent) protected the players at a time when he could have laid the blame on them (especially considering his experience).

None of this makes him a good manager - or excuses his points return - but though many will no doubt disagree - I don't go along with the theory that he is behind all the clubs current woes.

Jermaine Jones has been OK, but was brought here by Anderson wasn't he, just as Formica and Rochina were? I thought we were discussing Steve Keans achievements? Probably the only player that Kean knew about before the transfer window was the guy who he now wants to sign permanently - RSC. Need I say more on that one. Of course we'll have the argument put forward that Kean was involved in bringing in all these players, to which I would argue - who brought in John Jensen? Kean was being fed people at that time, it's so obvious. I mean, as far as Formica is concerned, Kean said "He has been likened to a young Batistuta", which says to me that someone else told him that.

Hoilett and Olssen were talented lads before Kean got involved. With regard to Hoilett in particular, if he had been around for quite a while and hadn't looked as though he was going to make it and looked like he might have been on his way out of the club, and Kean had subsequently turned his career around, then Kean would have got credit for that. That wasn't the situation though was it?

Getting the balance right - on the back of one scrappy game against Bolton? Just about every other game we have been anything but balanced. There's a long way to go on that one DMTP. As for stabilising the club, well if his results hadn't been so awful, we wouldn't have needed stabilising. We were stable before Kean.

All in my opinion of course.

[imy9]

All I would say about the development of Hoilett and Olsson is that, Hoilett has been in the form of his short career under Kean, he has been starting games and scoring goals under Kean, thus Kean should get credit for this. Olsson as well, has grown a lot in the last 6 months especially defensively- considering how Kean loves the training ground I think it could be down to extra work there? The rest well, results do not endorse Kean.

[Amo]

To be fair, you were certainly repetitive enough commenting on our previous manager (negatively) and how we should be winning matches by playing a more attractive brand of football. Continuously criticising a manager who ultimately was good for our football club.

I don't really do agendas, John.

I just give credit where it's due.

The only problem is that certain members will only see what they want to see and overlook anything to the contrary.

[Mattyblue]

Bringing in J Jones on loan

Development of Hoilett

Development of Olsson

Longer term - I think we will see Rochina as a good buy

Recently - finally seeming to get the balance right

Though this will be controversial - stabalising the club following Sam's sacking - continuing to keep up player morale - keeping a positive attitude (though maybe at times overly positive). I do think that he has (to an extent) protected the players at a time when he could have laid the blame on them (especially considering his experience).

None of this makes him a good manager - or excuses his points return - but though many will no doubt disagree - I don't go along with the theory that he is behind all the clubs current woes.

Who says he is?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Last game mentality.

Alive and well.

I think if you look back through my posts I said that we looked to have more structure to our play prior to the Bolton match. Though I am not sure he is the man for the job - I have never agreed with the witch hunt and name calling that seems to come from some contributors.

For last game mentality - please look at the WHU thread - where optimism seems to have gone into overdrive - though I of course hope that it isn't misplaced.

P.S. For TGM - I never agreed with Sam's sacking (or at least the timing) - please feel free to look back through my posts where I have actually defended Sam - who I believe was the right man for the club at the time he was here. I also defended his style of play at times - which was never as bad as perceived in the media - though never that good either.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Hoilett and Olssen were talented lads before Kean got involved. With regard to Hoilett in particular, if he had been around for quite a while and hadn't looked as though he was going to make it and looked like he might have been on his way out of the club, and Kean had subsequently turned his career around, then Kean would have got credit for that. That wasn't the situation though was it?

Getting the balance right - on the back of one scrappy game against Bolton? Just about every other game we have been anything but balanced. There's a long way to go on that one DMTP. As for stabilising the club, well if his results hadn't been so awful, we wouldn't have needed stabilising. We were stable before Kean.

All in my opinion of course.

Olsson - himself has gone on record about Kean and the positive impact he has had on the younger players.

There has been a general improvement in the team pattern - especially following the lopsided early performances that left Salgado so exposed. But of course the result at Arsenal and the majority of the performance against City just further back up your argument. And before you retort to that - please note where I said "None of this makes him a good manager - or excuses his points return"

We were stable before the Venky's decided to sack Sam - but of course for all the conspiracy theorists on here that was Kean's fault as well.

[thenodrog]

Little surprise who penned the article!

Ha I hadn't spotted that. Old Lord Haw Haw himself. Switzerland calling....Switzerland calling.

[Gav]

Little surprise who penned the article!

Every burnley fans favourite son, and Owen Coyles man in the media

Don't underestimate the feeling of hatred towards our Nicko in the land that time forgot

[imy9]

Ha I hadn't spotted that. Old Lord Haw Haw himself. Switzerland calling....Switzerland calling.

You really have been watching too many episodes of The X Files, when in fact you sound more like David Brent with comments like that

[Gav]

Jermaine Jones has been OK, but was brought here by Anderson wasn't he, just as Formica and Rochina were?

Come on Den, if we're playing by those rules Allardyce never signed Salgado et al, it was all down to Williams

[John]

I don't really do agendas, John.

I just give credit where it's due.

The only problem is that certain members will only see what they want to see and overlook anything to the contrary.

You didn't though did you - you can't have it both ways.

We had a manager who most of the senior players thought could take us really high up the table.

Your constant moaning about our style of football did not register and was not right - try giving some respect, sadly because of the numpties in charges our football club has lost a lot of it.

[RevidgeBlue]

I still find it amusing that the same people who criticised Sam with most of their posts are the same people defending Kean with most of their posts.

Doesnt make any kind of logical sense, but there you go.

That's primarily because not everything in the garden was rosy under Sam despite attempts by some to put a rose coloured tint on his tenure following his departure and some (but not all) of the criticism levelled against Kean is completely unfair and without any foundation.

Kean deserves criticism where it's due but hopefully in the mind of more fair minded observers deserves a fair crack of the whip as well.

It's not at all difficult to understand really.

[John]

That's primarily because not everything in the garden was rosy under Sam despite attempts by some to put a rose coloured tint on his tenure following his departure and some (but not all) of the criticism levelled against Kean is completely unfair and without any foundation.

That is complete rubbish, try putting your dislike of him to the side for a moment.

He knows how to run and develop/improve a football club.

[RevidgeBlue]

With regard to Hoilett in particular, if he had been around for quite a while and hadn't looked as though he was going to make it and looked like he might have been on his way out of the club, and Kean had subsequently turned his career around, then Kean would have got credit for that. That wasn't the situation though was it?

Errr........ that's exactly how it seems to have panned out isn't it?

Thanks for providing the link to the nicko article. Didn't see that at the time.

Sounds a bit like Souness when he said "Get me the leading scorer in Seria B" and he ended up with Grabbi when he was apparently expecting an out and out centre forward.

[bob fleming]

Kean deserves criticism where it's due but hopefully in the mind of more fair minded observers deserves a fair crack of the whip as well.

It's not at all difficult to understand really.

It's also not hard to understand Rev that any other manager would: -

1. Not have been given the job with the managerial experience that Steve Kean possesses

2. Never in a million years have been given a 2.5 year contract (after 4 or 5 games? some we lost?)

3. Have probably have been sacked by now

4. Have the Owners / Board hanging on every word of his Agent

That's the reality.