[Archived] Players improving other players

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Was listening to Talksport on the way home from work (out of sheer boredom) and they were discussing Gareth Bale and how he wasn't worth anywhere near £85m because he wouldn't do what Ronaldo has done over there. Which made me think about something that doesn't seem to be talked about a whole lot in football, how much a player's performance depends on who he's playing with.

Ronaldo joined Madrid from the best team in England where the quality of his team-mates helped him get to a level where he was probably worth £80m, whereas Bale didn't have that help last season for Spurs. Maybe he will turn into a goal-a-game superstar on the Ronaldo/Messi level when he's playing alongside the likes of Ronaldo, Benzema, Alonso and Modric instead of Lennon, Defoe, Dembele and Sandro. Maybe not and Levy's fleeced them, will be an interesting one. Other examples that stand out for me are how much Gerrard and Suarez improved when Sturridge arrived at Liverpool last season. In 2 of Sturridge's early games they drew with Man City and Arsenal away in games they could have won, this from a team who were about 8th in the league at the time.

And finally onto Rovers, this to me is exactly what's happened to us an attacking force since the return of Dunn. King and Kane are getting good service, Rhodes has cheered up massively, and confidence seems to have flowing from Dunn and directly into Lowe and Cairney alongside him. I know Dunn-worship isn't everyone's cup of tea after some of his comments in the Kean era and his atrocious injury-record, but in my opinion he has single-handedly transformed this team. The guy is certainly an enigma, first he was a strong England candidate under Souness, then a national laughing stock due to his "bad tekkers" at Birmingham, then the forgotten man, then a one-season wonder under Allardyce, then the forgotten man again, and then today you've got Adrian Durham (again on Talksport) raving about his wonder goal on a station where Rovers usually get about 1 mention every couple of years.

I suppose my conclusion is that I'm starting to think Dunn is more important to this team than Bowyer is. And any realistic shot at promotion this season will depend on us achieving the seemingly impossible and keeping him fit throughout.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Though I agree that Dunn has made a difference - as he did at the end of last season. IMO the biggest factor is King - and the pace he brings to the side. With Rhodes up front many teams had previously been able to play a high line confident that Rhodes can't out run the centre half - King showing a bit of form has actually changed this and is largely responsible for the additional space that Dunn now has to operate in. I hope that if we buy anyone - it is somebody with pace - just in case King Mk2 reverts to King Mk1.

[Baz]

Should that not be King Joshua I and King Joshua II?

I'd agree some players make others play better, Ryan Nelsen & Toogs are good examples of this for me. I dont feel the same with Dunny, i think if he's on form he's a very good footballer, but i dont think he has the impact on other players.

Kings pace has made a difference, but if you do give him 1/2 a pitch to run into, he's going to exploit it.

[Commondore]

There are also a certin cadre of players who seem to play better when they're not surrounded by huge stars and get to do all the good stuff themselves.

[Dreyski]

Andy Cole managed it twice - with Jansen and then Stead's first season.

[neekoy]

I think it is just about team balance, some players cover other deficiencies (Makelele, Essien, Mikel in the case of Lampard, Alonso, Didi, Mascherano in the case of Gerrard) those like Xavi, Zidane or Pirlo who can open up defences and provided opportunity for pretty ordinary players like Dugarry, Delvecchio, Saviola to shine or those partnerships that just seem to be made in heaven, Cesc and RVP, Ferdinand and Vidic, Xavi and Iniesta, Tugay and his Invisible Friend.....

[saxo1man30]

cairney`s presence has also made people appreciate the role lowe plays in the team imo..

[Mike E]

I think it is just about team balance, some players cover other deficiencies (Makelele, Essien, Mikel in the case of Lampard, Alonso, Didi, Mascherano in the case of Gerrard) those like Xavi, Zidane or Pirlo who can open up defences and provided opportunity for pretty ordinary players like Dugarry, Delvecchio, Saviola to shine or those partnerships that just seem to be made in heaven, Cesc and RVP, Ferdinand and Vidic, Xavi and Iniesta, Tugay and his Invisible Friend.....

Tbf, Tugay and Savage was a stunning partnership at times, as was Bentley and Emerton. Even McCarthy and Pedersen struck up a terrific understanding down the left side of attack.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Yeah 1 or 2 people have mentioned how the dismantling of Hughes' squad may have affected the level Pedersen was playing at. Its gotta be easier to shine in a team with Bentley, Tugay and Savage alongside you and Bellamy/McCarthy/Santa Cruz in front.

[Majiball]

Bizarre.

[Mullionvagrant]

Can we get Olsson to play with Messi or at least the local pub 5-aside!

[4000Holes]

Was listening to Talksport on the way home from work (out of sheer boredom) and they were discussing Gareth Bale and how he wasn't worth anywhere near £85m because he wouldn't do what Ronaldo has done over there. Which made me think about something that doesn't seem to be talked about a whole lot in football, how much a player's performance depends on who he's playing with.

Ronaldo joined Madrid from the best team in England where the quality of his team-mates helped him get to a level where he was probably worth £80m, whereas Bale didn't have that help last season for Spurs. Maybe he will turn into a goal-a-game superstar on the Ronaldo/Messi level when he's playing alongside the likes of Ronaldo, Benzema, Alonso and Modric instead of Lennon, Defoe, Dembele and Sandro. Maybe not and Levy's fleeced them, will be an interesting one. Other examples that stand out for me are how much Gerrard and Suarez improved when Sturridge arrived at Liverpool last season. In 2 of Sturridge's early games they drew with Man City and Arsenal away in games they could have won, this from a team who were about 8th in the league at the time.

And finally onto Rovers, this to me is exactly what's happened to us an attacking force since the return of Dunn. King and Kane are getting good service, Rhodes has cheered up massively, and confidence seems to have flowing from Dunn and directly into Lowe and Cairney alongside him. I know Dunn-worship isn't everyone's cup of tea after some of his comments in the Kean era and his atrocious injury-record, but in my opinion he has single-handedly transformed this team. The guy is certainly an enigma, first he was a strong England candidate under Souness, then a national laughing stock due to his "bad tekkers" at Birmingham, then the forgotten man, then a one-season wonder under Allardyce, then the forgotten man again, and then today you've got Adrian Durham (again on Talksport) raving about his wonder goal on a station where Rovers usually get about 1 mention every couple of years.

I suppose my conclusion is that I'm starting to think Dunn is more important to this team than Bowyer is. And any realistic shot at promotion this season will depend on us achieving the seemingly impossible and keeping him fit throughout.

Bingo! As Kelbo said, it's all about balance. Flair players (Tuguy), work horses (Savage), strikers etc. If Steve Kean had, had Messi, Ronaldo, Bale etc. the team would still have struggled because he did not understand balance hence so many players out of position under his tenure. Just like Paul Ince but possibly that was his learning curve because he does not appear to be making the same mistakes over at the pool. Steve Kean will never learn that!

[Stuart]

Bingo! As Kelbo said, it's all about balance.

Neekoy?

[neekoy]

It ok Stuart, thanks

[thenodrog]

Which made me think about something that doesn't seem to be talked about a whole lot in football, how much a player's performance depends on who he's playing with.

The player who made most money for BRFC in the 90's was Colin Hendry. He made whoever played alongside him look good and apart from supplying a surprise Premier League winners medal to Tony Gayle we made big money from buying and selling the likes of May, Berg, Coleman, Pearce and Le Saux.

[bazza]

One man who must be really enjoying his football now is Jason Lowe. You can see it.

And the reason is that now he has young, hungry players around him who know how to play the game.

Being surrounded by good, confident footballers gives him the chance to pass forwards and, for once, it doesn't matter if occasionally there is no-one on the end of it.

His only shortcomings are his shots on goal that are calling for the "Beamo" acclamation.

Yes, Jason looks a happy bunny.

[old darwen blue]

Can't wait to play QPR. Lets see if Mr Barton fancies tangling with Jason Lowe like he did with our Peds.

[Stuart]

One man who must be really enjoying his football now is Jason Lowe. You can see it.

And the reason is that now he has young, hungry players around him who know how to play the game.

Being surrounded by good, confident footballers gives him the chance to pass forwards and, for once, it doesn't matter if occasionally there is no-one on the end of it.

His only shortcomings are his shots on goal that are calling for the "Beamo" acclamation.

Yes, Jason looks a happy bunny.

A good post and I hope he improves as a result.

But I was watching last week and there were precious few forward passes. Almost all were sideways and backwards. It was tidy enough and he linked the midfield and defence well but that's all.

Maybe against poor teams he may suddenly find he has space and options, and he will come into his own but I've not seen enough yet to judge.

[Baz]

Can't wait to play QPR. Lets see if Mr Barton fancies tangling with Jason Lowe like he did with our Peds.

Reminds me of the game at OT where Ferdinand got a little physical with Savage, Andy Todd I believe was the "peacekeeper" in the tunnel at HT. Would love to see Barton try it on with Toddy even now.

[tonyoz]

A good post and I hope he improves as a result.

But I was watching last week and there were precious few forward passes. Almost all were sideways and backwards. It was tidy enough and he linked the midfield and defence well but that's all.

Maybe against poor teams he may suddenly find he has space and options, and he will come into his own but I've not seen enough yet to judge.

I think you are being a bit harsh there Stuart. Lowe has definitely stepped up his game. I think he will be a "keeper" this season. I like to think it's the GB effect (along with King and a revitalised Rhodes and Dunny)..............but I always get over-optimistic when a new manager wins a few games!

[Stuart]

I think you are being a bit harsh there Stuart. Lowe has definitely stepped up his game. I think he will be a "keeper" this season. I like to think it's the GB effect (along with King and a revitalised Rhodes and Dunny)..............but I always get over-optimistic when a new manager wins a few games!

What did I say that was harsh, Tony?

I may have damned him with feint praise but I wouldn't say what I posted was harsh. There were very few forward passes, maybe against lesser teams he will make more.

[tonyoz]

What did I say that was harsh, Tony?

I may have damned him with feint praise but I wouldn't say what I posted was harsh. There were very few forward passes, maybe against lesser teams he will make more.

No big deal Stuart. But I thought his passing last Saturday was a big improvement - almost every pass appropriately selected.

[thenodrog]

Reminds me of the game at OT where Ferdinand got a little physical with Savage, Andy Todd I believe was the "peacekeeper" in the tunnel at HT. Would love to see Barton try it on with Toddy even now.

He'd be on his own if he did! Todd had quite some reputation as a hard man off the field even more than on it. It was that reputation that caused so many to believe he had belted RVP at Cardiff when in reallity RVP simply turned to celebrate after scoring and ran into him.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Reminds me of the game at OT where Ferdinand got a little physical with Savage, Andy Todd I believe was the "peacekeeper" in the tunnel at HT. Would love to see Barton try it on with Toddy even now.

I might be imagining this but I swear the likes of Barton, Bellamy etc only tried it on once we sold Samba? Is that how it went?

Actually maybe Barton punched Pedersen on the sly but once Hughes left, I can't remember it kicking off on the pitch until Samba left.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I love our 04/05 bully boys team. What a time for that numpty at Burnley to run on the pitch when we had Todd, Nelsen, Matteo, Neill, Savage, Reid and Mokoena.