[Archived] Formation and Tactics

[Neal]

Passing is only half the requirement in midfield. Does squawk show his tackle success?

Tugay couldn't tackle for toffee to be fair... Still the best CM we ever had though.

[JAL]

Agreed, aside Lowe IMO. He just needs more movement, width and options in front of him to be more effective.

Whatever happened to midfielders who carried the ball until that movement in front of them became an option rather than pass the responsibility onto someone else in the team who's generally behind you further away from the opponents goals on the field of play.

[LDRover]

Passing is only half the requirement in midfield. Does squawk show his tackle success?

The squawk stats say that he's won more than half of his tackles (58%) and that he's made 78 of them in his time here.

Must say the amount of tackles surprised me.

[grizfoot]

Can we see Lowe & Williamson's passing success?

Lowe - 83%

Williamson - 85%

So actual maybe not as bad as some might think. Although pass success rate perhaps doesn't tell the full story because Tom Cairney passing is a lot more probing and creativity than those two players of course. Which may be why he's been used further forward in a short inside right position for a large part of this season. If we had a fantastic bunch of wingers/wide players I could understand the complaints about not playing Cairney in central midfield. But whilst we are playing 4-4-2 I can totally understand why Bowyer chooses to play Cairney in the position he does which enables him to use his talents further up the pitch in more dangerous areas.

[thenodrog]

Whatever happened to midfielders who carried the ball until that movement in front of them became an option rather than pass the responsibility onto someone else in the team who's generally behind you further away from the opponents goals on the field of play.

Ask Mourhino... and if you cant get hold of him then ask Claude Makelele.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Tugay couldn't tackle for toffee to be fair... Still the best CM we ever had though.

To be fair, he usually had two other midfielders alongside him. When he first signed it was Flitcroft and Dunn then it was Flitcroft and Savage. This ususlly either meant Dunn playing wide or sacrificing width or dropping the second striker.

Theno is probably right to play Cairney in the middle would result in 4-5-1 formation.

[Mani]

I actually think we can afford to play 442 with Cairney in CM in most home games.

In games where we need an extra man in midfield (like the derby game where we got tactically annihilated) them why not take Rhodes off and give him a rest? Five or six goalscorers since Jan 1st says we can score without him and maybe he is a little jaded seeing as he plays every minute of every game?

Similarly I'd play 451 in a lot of Away games and depending on the opposition just rotate Gestede and Rhodes.

The biggest issue is what looks like tactical naivety at times from GB..I say absolutely go for it at home and blow teams away and be a little more cagey away..

[K-Hod]

I'd certainly be tempted to drop Rhodes today in favour of a 5 man midfield.

Though this midfield should contain Lowe or Williamson, not both....

[roversR4ever]

To be fair, he usually had two other midfielders alongside him. When he first signed it was Flitcroft and Dunn then it was Flitcroft and Savage. This ususlly either meant Dunn playing wide or sacrificing width or dropping the second striker.

Theno is probably right to play Cairney in the middle would result in 4-5-1 formation.

True but I do think Cairney is a bit better defensively but conversely not as good technically. I think he can play alongside either Lowe or Evans. I think the issue is that he has nearly as much influence out wider and Bowyer may feel not that confident with his other options out wide. Bowyer may feel no one else has been as consistent as Cairney in that position. I actually think the return of Evans may mean Cairney stays out wide as Bowyer would be happier with his central mid and may not need Cairney there.

For me that situation is more likely to change when Bowyer has both Conway and Marshall fit and believes they are as effective as cairney out wide. Then we may see Evans and cairney in the middle or the 5 man midfield.

[thenodrog]

I'd certainly be tempted to drop Rhodes today in favour of a 5 man midfield.

Though this midfield should contain Lowe or Williamson, not both....

Lowe and (hopefully soon) Evans with a mix from (when fit) Cairney, Dunn, Taylor, King, Marshall, Conway providing the players to interchange and play point and wide.

On current form Rhodes on the bench and Willamson in the stands.

Sorted.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

True but I do think Cairney is a bit better defensively but conversely not as good technically. I think he can play alongside either Lowe or Evans. I think the issue is that he has nearly as much influence out wider and Bowyer may feel not that confident with his other options out wide. Bowyer may feel no one else has been as consistent as Cairney in that position. I actually think the return of Evans may mean Cairney stays out wide as Bowyer would be happier with his central mid and may not need Cairney there.

For me that situation is more likely to change when Bowyer has both Conway and Marshall fit and believes they are as effective as cairney out wide. Then we may see Evans and cairney in the middle or the 5 man midfield.

I actually think at times playing out wide benefits Cairney, he sometimes get crowded out in the middle but out wide there is often plenty of space which allows him time to pick passes like Beckham used to be able to do.

[LDRover]

I actually think we can afford to play 442 with Cairney in CM in most home games.

In games where we need an extra man in midfield (like the derby game where we got tactically annihilated) them why not take Rhodes off and give him a rest? Five or six goalscorers since Jan 1st says we can score without him and maybe he is a little jaded seeing as he plays every minute of every game?

Similarly I'd play 451 in a lot of Away games and depending on the opposition just rotate Gestede and Rhodes.

The biggest issue is what looks like tactical naivety at times from GB..I say absolutely go for it at home and blow teams away and be a little more cagey away..

It may have looked like we were tactically annihilated in the Derby game but they stuck with 2 up front all game and didn't flood midfield.

All it showed to me, in the last half hour especially, is that we didn't identify and nullify their main threat (Hughes) and don't have players with the necessary bottle to want the ball in pressure situations.

[Neal]

Liverpool showing the undeniable importance of pressing right from the front... Take note Gaz.

[Amo]

Liverpool showing the undeniable importance of pressing right from the front... Take note Gaz.

That, y'know, and having Suarez & Sturridge up front.

[Roverthechimp]

Williamson scored 13 goals in 11/12 season - maybe he should be playing further up the pitch

[JAL]

Ask Mourhino... and if you cant get hold of him then ask Claude Makelele.

Just hope you watched Rodgers Liverpool today progressive midfielders unlike our Jason.

Carried the ball forward, passed the ball forward with pace and accuracy and created chances that generated excitement.

Williamson scored 13 goals in 11/12 season - maybe he should be playing further up the pitch

The point is KLC 2012 he aint good enough.

[Neal]

That, y'know, and having Suarez & Sturridge up front.

Overrated

Perhaps a more realistic example is Leicester.

[Mani]

I 100% agree that we are well suited to a high pressing game...regardless of us not having having Suarez and Sturridge IF Bowyer could be braver in these situations and press higher then would begin to dismantle teams IMO.

Reason being that if we can win the ball back in the final third then the likes of Cairney, Dunn and Conway will feed Rhodes and Gestede before teams have time to get people back into position...I would certainly be looking to play this way at home anyway.

[McClarky]

While there are pros and cons in every formation I can't see how Saturday's line up can work, especially away from home. Playing this midfield diamond is far too narrow and gives no support to the full backs. The left winger for Boro gacve Kane a terrible 1st half but you can't really blame the lad as there was no-one covering from midfield. The bloke seemed to tire and then pick up an injury fairly soon after HT which was a relief. Notrmally I would like to see us play 4-4-2 but there's no room for Dunn in that set up and I reckon he's our most creative player.

[thenodrog]

While there are pros and cons in every formation I can't see how Saturday's line up can work, especially away from home. Playing this midfield diamond is far too narrow and gives no support to the full backs. The left winger for Boro gacve Kane a terrible 1st half but you can't really blame the lad as there was no-one covering from midfield. The bloke seemed to tire and then pick up an injury fairly soon after HT which was a relief. Notrmally I would like to see us play 4-4-2 but there's no room for Dunn in that set up and I reckon he's our most creative player.

Quite right. Our best and most creative players are attacking midfielders and we are restricting them in a 4-4-2. Also if JR is to become effective again it seems a deep sitting narrow midfield and attacking down the centre is not best suited to him.

[47er]

Quite right. Our best and most creative players are attacking midfielders and we are restricting them in a 4-4-2. Also if JR is to become effective again it seems a deep sitting narrow midfield and attacking down the centre is not best suited to him.

So its not JR's fault?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Just hope you watched Rodgers Liverpool today progressive midfielders unlike our Jason.

Carried the ball forward, passed the ball forward with pace and accuracy and created chances that generated excitement.

The point is KLC 2012 he aint good enough.

So you are now comparing Lowe with a midfield that helped Liverpool smash Arsenal. I am sure that he will be pleased that you are comparing with such company - rather than the Championship in which he actually plays.

[Mani]

I was at the Bolton vs Burnley game last night and I reckon we should go 442 and toe to toe with them...Average team, long balls into Vokes who knocks down to Ings and midfield runners. Very very clinical and they have a strong belief...but Bolton were the better team for most part!!

[CapeTownRover]

4-4-2 just doesnt work in that far too often the opposition will play the extra man in midfield. 4-4-2 when you have 2 out and out strikers up front, can really only work, if you have a midfield 4 that can get up and down the pitch quickly. You can somehow do a 4-4-1-1 type formation, where the 2nd striker is in between the other striker and the midfield 4.

Cairney eg could easily sit behind Rhodes or Gestede, and then still fall back into the midfield pack to distribute. Its really tough knowing what formation to play, as i still feel our squad is too big especially in midfield.

[den]

Good sides would murder you if you played a straight 4-4-2

If we're talking tactics here, then really the top sides aren't about solid formations, they're about movement. They're about fluidity while still retaining defensive discipline. Big lumbering centre forwards, pacy strikers, brilliant ball players are far harder to handle if you don't know where they are and can't see them coming.