Academy & U21s

[G Somerset Rover]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

I’d play Nutts against the Barcodes. I suspect Brereton will instead get his first start.

Barcodes? Why am I being dumb?

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Any word on Rankin Costello’s return? Been out injured for a long time.

I think he came off the bench tonight for his first (?) action since being out long term with injury.

[Oldgregg86]

2 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Barcodes? Why am I being dumb?

Newcastle. Due to the shirt looking like a barcode.

Did Butterworth play and how has he been doing. Was brilliant the last few games I saw him and did well in his cameo against Lincoln. Would consider giving him a place on the bench against Newcastle 

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Barcodes? Why am I being dumb?

Sorry I thought it was a well-known alt-nickname, down there with Notlob and Big Club.

[RoversClitheroe]

Anyone hearing whispers about our youths signing new contracts? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

No, but I read the following players are out of contract in the summer

Charley Doyle, Jack Doyle, Tyler Magloire, Lewis Hardcastle, Willem Tomlinson, Stefan Mols, Okera Simmonds and Lewis Mansell.

[Stuart]

7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No, but I read the following players are out of contract in the summer

Charley Doyle, Jack Doyle, Tyler Magloire, Lewis Hardcastle, Willem Tomlinson, Stefan Mols, Okera Simmonds and Lewis Mansell.

Maybe that’s why there is chatter. We really need to sign Mols up! And Magloire. And Hardcastle. And Mansell. And Simmons.

Crimes!

Don't see Tomilinson staying unfortunately. He really hasn’t been given an opportunity and hasn’t been loaned out. He may come back to haunt us.

The Doyles I can see signing up again.

[G Somerset Rover]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Sorry I thought it was a well-known alt-nickname, down there with Notlob and Big Club.

Do you know what, I did know. Completely forgot we had them in the Cup and thought you were somehow referencing Norwich this coming weekend ?.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Maybe that’s why there is chatter. We really need to sign Mols up! And Magloire. And Hardcastle. And Mansell. And Simmons.

Crimes!

Don't see Tomilinson staying unfortunately. He really hasn’t been given an opportunity and hasn’t been loaned out. He may come back to haunt us.

The Doyles I can see signing up again.

Would I be correct in saying those lads are in their 20s now? I have seen them mentioned in under aged teams for years.

Simmonds is a winger, so I would liked to have seen him get some game time a the end of games. 

[Stuart]

7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Simmonds is a winger, so I would liked to have seen him get some game time a the end of games. 

This is one of my gripes though. Mowbray doesn’t appear to have have any faith in the youth players. This despite them winning their division last season - so if he doesn’t think they are good enough to for the Championship bench or loan them out then the whole PL2 is a waste of time. Travis is the latest Icarus to get his wings burnt, following Tomlinson and Nuttall.

Mahoney got stick from some quarters saying he should have stayed but Mowbray doesn’t play with wingers - as Simmons will probably find out.

I’m not quite sure why our U23s don’t play the first team system to breed these players for first team action. Mowbray regularly attends U23 matches but doesn’t seem to use it as a deeper squad to pick from. He seems to leave them to it and goes out and recruits. For a club that can’t offer proper ticket offers for cost reasons, it’s strange not to dip into this talent pool more often and grow our own.

[Rogerb]

19 minutes ago, Stuart said:

This is one of my gripes though. Mowbray doesn’t appear to have have any faith in the youth players. This despite them winning their division last season - so if he doesn’t think they are good enough to for the Championship bench or loan them out then the whole PL2 is a waste of time. Travis is the latest Icarus to get his wings burnt, following Tomlinson and Nuttall.

Mahoney got stick from some quarters saying he should have stayed but Mowbray doesn’t play with wingers - as Simmons will probably find out.

I’m not quite sure why our U23s don’t play the first team system to breed these players for first team action. Mowbray regularly attends U23 matches but doesn’t seem to use it as a deeper squad to pick from. He seems to leave them to it and goes out and recruits. For a club that can’t offer proper ticket offers for cost reasons, it’s strange not to dip into this talent pool more often and grow our own.

There is only Raya who Mowbray has promoted to the first team on a permanent basis in his tenure. 18 months ago seem to recall Mowbray questioning the whole affordability of the academy.

[Stuart]

13 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

There is only Raya who Mowbray has promoted to the first team on a permanent basis in his tenure. 18 months ago seem to recall Mowbray questioning the whole affordability of the academy.

Raya was already in the first team when Bowyer was here though. Started several games (probably too early) and was a bit exposed. Not really a youth promotion, a number 2 made number 1.

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Would I be correct in saying those lads are in their 20s now? I have seen them mentioned in under aged teams for years.

Simmonds is a winger, so I would liked to have seen him get some game time a the end of games. 

You've clearly never watched Simmonds.  He is dreadful, simply dreadful and I would fully expect to see him on his way come May.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

This is one of my gripes though. Mowbray doesn’t appear to have have any faith in the youth players. This despite them winning their division last season - so if he doesn’t think they are good enough to for the Championship bench or loan them out then the whole PL2 is a waste of time. Travis is the latest Icarus to get his wings burnt, following Tomlinson and Nuttall.

Mahoney got stick from some quarters saying he should have stayed but Mowbray doesn’t play with wingers - as Simmons will probably find out.

I’m not quite sure why our U23s don’t play the first team system to breed these players for first team action. Mowbray regularly attends U23 matches but doesn’t seem to use it as a deeper squad to pick from. He seems to leave them to it and goes out and recruits. For a club that can’t offer proper ticket offers for cost reasons, it’s strange not to dip into this talent pool more often and grow our own.

I totally agree. How he has used the youth players is bad. The only time Travis has gotten on that I remember this season as as a makeshift center half for a few minutes. So as it stands Travis, who is a great talent from what I have seen, is getting game time nowhere. It is ridiculous. His energy would definitely help instead of a fatigued Smallwood when we are defending a lead. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

You've clearly never watched Simmonds.  He is dreadful, simply dreadful and I would fully expect to see him on his way come May.

I have seen next to nothing, but he starts for the under 23s every week.  So someone must rate him. 

[G Somerset Rover]

Nuttall’s not going to suddenly come into the side - just can’t see it. If TM isn’t going to feature he nor Travis then get them out to clubs who will actually play them and watch them develop. Travis is too good not to make the #11 of any league one side.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

You've clearly never watched Simmonds.  He is dreadful, simply dreadful and I would fully expect to see him on his way come May.

Extremely harsh from what I’ve seen but you will have seen him more than me.

[Rogerb]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Raya was already in the first team when Bowyer was here though. Started several games (probably too early) and was a bit exposed. Not really a youth promotion, a number 2 made number 1.

 In a two year period there has been generally one that has made the step up to the first team the most recent examples being Lenihan, Nyambe and Raya these having come through in say the last four / five years. So on that basis we are perhaps ahead of par. Prior to that would be Handley, Jones Henley and Jake Kean some more successful than others.

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

You've clearly never watched Simmonds.  He is dreadful, simply dreadful and I would fully expect to see him on his way come May.

Along with mansell

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Nuttall’s not going to suddenly come into the side - just can’t see it. If TM isn’t going to feature he nor Travis then get them out to clubs who will actually play them and watch them develop. Travis is too good not to make the #11 of any league one side.

You are probably right, but I find it disappointing that he won't. He can do no more than what he is currently. He has been at the club over a year, has played for the first team. Now is freely scoring at the highest level of Under 23s football. He is 21 years of age, so older than Brereton. I am pretty sure he is almost as tall and I would say more well built, so could fill , or attempt to at least, the Graham role. If he doesn't get into the first team squad over Xmas, I will be disappointed. 

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You are probably right, but I find it disappointing that he won't. He can do no more than what he is currently. He has been at the club over a year, has played for the first team. Now is freely scoring at the highest level of Under 23s football. He is 21 years of age, so older than Brereton. I am pretty sure he is almost as tall and I would say more well built, so could fill , or attempt to at least, the Graham role. If he doesn't get into the first team squad over Xmas, I will be disappointed. 

I felt last year that although he did score a couple of goals, Nuttall in the main did appear quite a bit off in terms of physicality and knowing how to play that role as striker, and that was in League 1. If he came into the side this year he would look equally as inadequate especially as a sub for Graham.

You say he can do no more than he is doing, but from the sound of it his recent purple patch comes off the back of a poor run due to the players attitude. 

Due to the finance committed to the deal, Mowbray will have to somewhat perservere with Brereton, who already has a couple of seasons of experience at this level. I dont feel like Nuttall is capable of backing Graham up yet and is definitely shy of a loan deal to get him used to League football. The choice of club is critical to his development, even if it means going down to League 2 he needs to be playing every week.

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I felt last year that although he did score a couple of goals, Nuttall in the main did appear quite a bit off in terms of physicality and knowing how to play that role as striker, and that was in League 1. If he came into the side this year he would look equally as inadequate especially as a sub for Graham.

You say he can do no more than he is doing, but from the sound of it his recent purple patch comes off the back of a poor run due to the players attitude. 

Due to the finance committed to the deal, Mowbray will have to somewhat perservere with Brereton, who already has a couple of seasons of experience at this level. I dont feel like Nuttall is capable of backing Graham up yet and is definitely shy of a loan deal to get him used to League football. The choice of club is critical to his development, even if it means going down to League 2 he needs to be playing every week.

He scored a few for us in League 1 though. However, I agree he didn't look the finished article at all. When it comes to strikers in particular, I would disregard previous form. When they start scoring, you need to get them in the side. 

The thing is both he and Brereton perhaps will never be able to do what Graham does and maybe we should stop expecting that. Of course we would need to cut out the direct balls up there then and play to their other strengths. Graham is a Championship master on getting the better of defenders whether they are bigger or faster than him. Can you teach that? I don't think you can personally. If you could, every striker would be doing it. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Rogerb said:

 In a two year period there has been generally one that has made the step up to the first team the most recent examples being Lenihan, Nyambe and Raya these having come through in say the last four / five years. So on that basis we are perhaps ahead of par. Prior to that would be Handley, Jones Henley and Jake Kean some more successful than others.

We’re talking about Mowbray though. Is he claiming Darragh and Ryan now as well?  

[Parsonblue]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I have seen next to nothing, but he starts for the under 23s every week.  So someone must rate him. 

He sits on the bench every week and gets a few minutes at the end of a game.

[Oldgregg86]

Joe nuttall will never be good enough for our first 11. The last thing we need is him in the squad when we're trying to move forward. I guarantee mowbray is trying to get him a loan with a view to get him moved on and off the books. He simply isn't good enough and doesn't have the attitude and mentality to make it at championship level. He was poor enough in league one. He's cameos in the first team  this season have been poor also

Edited December 18, 2018 by Oldgregg86