England

[M_B]

14 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

When you're in a hole stop digging.

The only thing we can control is whether or not we reach a particular stage of any competition by beating whoever is in front of us.

We have no control whatsoever over who we play. if we end up with an easier game at any particular stage than we would normally have expected because another fancied team hasn't performed and the draw hasnt panned out as expected, then most people would describe that as an element of (good) luck. If we meet a particularly strong team earlier than expected through no fault of our own then most people would describe that as being slightly unlucky with the draw.

RF 99 has described it very well above. I think most people would describe draws over the years against Sweden, Croatia, Denmark, Switzerland, and Ukraine as extremely favourable. Italy were far from the strongest side at the time in 2020 and in the last Euros we were in a side of the draw which meant we avoided Spain or France until the Final. We also avoided Germany because they unexpectedly lost to Switzerland.

You still have to win the games whoever you play, but to claim there isn't an element of luck involved at times is ridiculous.

 

What's ridiculous is using mumbo jumbo to drive a narrative.

As Gary Player said , The harder I practice, the luckier I get.  

You get what you earn. I'll tell you what, you and Upside down nip and get Rovers some of that there luck,we haven't had any for about 14 years.

All that bunkem about it being down to Venkys, I tell you, we've just been plain unlucky. 

[Upside Down]

4 minutes ago, M_B said:

What's ridiculous is using mumbo jumbo to drive a narrative.

As Gary Player said , The harder I practice, the luckier I get.  

You get what you earn. I'll tell you what, you and Upside down nip and get Rovers some of that there luck,we haven't had any for about 14 years.

All that bunkem about it being down to Venkys, I tell you, we've just been plain unlucky. 

This is honestly some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen on this message board.

It must be hot down in that hole you've been digging, you'll be breaking into the mantle soon enough.

[M_B]

7 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

This is honestly some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen on this message board.

It must be hot down in that hole you've been digging, you'll be breaking into the mantle soon enough.

Honestly, you're not telling me the last  14 years aren't down to bad luck? We were so lucky under Jack when he bought us the best forward in history, I can't understand where all the luck has gone, maybe we just used it all up. 

Surely nobody can have bad luck for 14 years, surely we'd have had some good luck like Wrexham. 

Who hands out this luck, you're the expert? Where do we get it from? Maybe Father Christmas will bring us some this year.

 

[Upside Down]

1 minute ago, M_B said:

Honestly, you're not telling me the last  14 years aren't down to bad luck? We were so lucky under Jack when he bought us the best forward in history, I can't understand where all the luck has gone, maybe we just used it all up. 

Surely nobody can have bad luck for 14 years, surely we'd have had some good luck like Wrexham. 

Who hands out this luck, you're the expert? Where do we get it from? Maybe Father Christmas will bring us some this year.

 

Time for bed for you now I think.

Keep off the blue Smarties, the food colouring they've used is obviously causing you some bother.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I watched the U-21’s against Germany’s second string tonight. 70 minutes of more Zzzzzzzzz. . Then we gave it a go for 20-25 minutes. We play Spain on Saturday now. Play like we have done so far and we’ll get buried.

Edited 3 hours ago by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Dreams of 1995]

2 hours ago, Hasta said:

The last Euros was a bit out of the ordinary based on who we played by seedings. No pot 1 or 2 teams until the final. First time it’s happened since the euros were expanded. Remember those seedings are based on results / merit.

The other argument is based on what you define as lucky. Just because the ties in later rounds are based on results in that tournament, it doesn’t mean you can’t get ‘softer’ ties. Take a random cup upset. In 2011 Stevenage (4th tier) beat Premier League Newcastle. You could have played that tie 10 times and 9 times Newcastle would probably have gone through. In the next round Reading drew Stevenage and Reading won comfortably. Reading definitely got a softer tie against Stevenage than they would have had against Newcastle. Were they “lucky” they benefited from the earlier upset?

Domestic competitions are much different. Each round is a lottery. In international football, you can form your own destiny with your qualifying and seeding. Naturally, it is an easier route the better you are seeded and if you win the group

I think where me and you differ is where we draw the line on the concept of “luck”. Softer ties - yes. For me, not luck.  We could have came second in our group and been drawn against the harder sides; we could have been second seed and been drawn against a top seed side within our group stage

The expanded tournaments will bring about a lot of runs like we had. I think Switzerland and Holland was a tough run in really. The Slovakia game needs disregarding as a lot of fixtures were “winnable” - but I’d have played Germany and Turkey over Switzerland so it was kind of middle of the road. Would agree out of Holland, France or Spain I would have took Holland. But again we put ourselves there by winning our group. That’s the way the cookie crumbles in international football and every team plays by the same rules 

[roversfan99]

You put yourself into a position for an easier tie in the last 16 by winning the group, or at least to expect an easier tie. But beyond that you dont. 

[den]

16 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I watched the U-21’s against Germany’s second string tonight. 70 minutes of more Zzzzzzzzz. . Then we gave it a go for 20-25 minutes. We play Spain on Saturday now. Play like we have done so far and we’ll get buried.

I watched it as well. God it was boring. Safety first every single time. Nobody prepared to take a risk in order to win the game. I can understand defenders playing that way - but midfielders, wide men and strikers?

[Hasta]

19 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Domestic competitions are much different. Each round is a lottery. In international football, you can form your own destiny with your qualifying and seeding. Naturally, it is an easier route the better you are seeded and if you win the group

I think where me and you differ is where we draw the line on the concept of “luck”. Softer ties - yes. For me, not luck.  We could have came second in our group and been drawn against the harder sides; we could have been second seed and been drawn against a top seed side within our group stage

The expanded tournaments will bring about a lot of runs like we had. I think Switzerland and Holland was a tough run in really. The Slovakia game needs disregarding as a lot of fixtures were “winnable” - but I’d have played Germany and Turkey over Switzerland so it was kind of middle of the road. Would agree out of Holland, France or Spain I would have took Holland. But again we put ourselves there by winning our group. That’s the way the cookie crumbles in international football and every team plays by the same rules 

I was thinking about this before I replied to the thread earlier and the two bits in bold are key to this ongoing debate.

It’s the word ‘luck’ that is causing part of the issue, as in reality it’s getting softer ties that you probably wouldn’t expect at later stages of the tournament. I certainly think we got that in last years tournament. Whether it’s luck or not is debatable by pure definition of the word.

The second point about the expanded tournament is also quite relevant. It may be that due to the increased number of “softer” teams in the competition, that “softer” draws become more of the norm.

What Southgate clearly did do was avoid the Iceland’s and the group exits that plagued us under other managers. Games and groups we expected to progress through, we did.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Hasta

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, den said:

I watched it as well. God it was boring. Safety first every single time. Nobody prepared to take a risk in order to win the game. I can understand defenders playing that way - but midfielders, wide men and strikers?

Nobody on the commentary was blaming our keeper for the second goal. When I played any ball played into or around the edge of the six yard box was the keepers ball. Our guy was rooted to the goal line. If he had have got a hand to the ball he would have been “ saving “ it over the line.

Edited 2 hours ago by Tyrone Shoelaces

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, M_B said:

What's ridiculous is using mumbo jumbo to drive a narrative.

As Gary Player said , The harder I practice, the luckier I get.  

You get what you earn. I'll tell you what, you and Upside down nip and get Rovers some of that there luck,we haven't had any for about 14 years.

All that bunkem about it being down to Venkys, I tell you, we've just been plain unlucky. 

At this stage, no idea what you're on about, you're not even talking about the same thing that everyone else is on the thread.