Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There is a great opportunity both to get to Wembley by winning at a Championship club and to get into the top 6 of a very average Championship. Do even one of those and I think Tomasson will gain a hell of a lot of credit and establish some faith and hope again,

I agree we have a great opportunity to get into the top 6 this season as we seen no death spinal like under the previous manager. 

Some fans still wouldn't accept JDT as Rovers head coach even if he got us to Wembley whether in a FA Cup semi final or even Playoff final

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

At the end of the day, we've spent the vast majority of the first 36 games in the top 6. It wouldn't be entitled to be incredibly annoyed if we don't make it. We aren't a minnow and you look at someone like Luton who are above us again, we shouldn't just contently accept finishing outside.

I don't think anyone would contently accept finishing outside top 6. I would be disappointed by it and it depends on why we missed out on them if it did happened

 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I get why the manager like the last one bangs on about not expecting things because he wants to try and lower expectations but its quite sad how so many seem to be pre-emptively accepting not being competitive as if we are the odd team out at the top. Venkys have stripped us of any ambition and any expectation and its so sad.

I think JDT is downplaying expectations for very different reasons to Mowbray, but what is said to the players behind closed doors is more important

[Mattyblue]

Very perceptive Chadster. You’ve come a long way from when you used to refuse to accept that managers might not be telling the whole truth to the media…

😁

[booth]

43 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I have never said that everything would fall at the managers door. 

I'm not sure where I said you did, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[roversfan99]

It really grates how low people think of us as a club but I totally get it because Venkys have caused us to lower expectations to such a degree that we think so low of ourselves. I totally get why Tomasson does it and why Mowbray did it, textbook manager spiel aimed at lowering expectations. But we now do it to ourselves.

We are not run well and likely never will be under Venkys, any good work done on the ground floor is in spite of them and their interfering. And to be quite honest the change of structure has done nothing to alleviate those concerns, with the shambles of a January window displaying that. Tomasson hopefully will improve on last season with praise aimed specifically at him if we do.

But come on, its a poor quality league. The parachute money can cause a disparity but not all of the clubs that come down are run efficiently enough to use them as a big advantage, they just end up being used to prop up inflated wage bills. You get some teams like Fulham last year and Burnley this that are a class apart but you also get teams like Watford/Norwich that may have individuals above our station but who are a bit all over the place. We are also competing with teams like Luton and Millwall who we shouldn't have inferiority complexes about. We also have the advantage of an excellent academy that granted we end up over reliant on but one that Venkys dont deserve praise merely for not destructing. 

Lets have a bit of expectation about us. We are in the top 6, 10 games to go, drop out and it will be a huge disappointment, not an understandable first step of a project.

[roversfan99]

31 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I agree we have a great opportunity to get into the top 6 this season as we seen no death spinal like under the previous manager. 

Some fans still wouldn't accept JDT as Rovers head coach even if he got us to Wembley whether in a FA Cup semi final or even Playoff final

I don't think anyone would contently accept finishing outside top 6. I would be disappointed by it and it depends on why we missed out on them if it did happened

 

I think JDT is downplaying expectations for very different reasons to Mowbray, but what is said to the players behind closed doors is more important

Death spinal sounds very painful.

IMO, it is hypothetical bollocks that even if we made the play off final, some fans "wouldnt accept JDT."

He is downplaying things for the exact same reason, and I am sure managers at other clubs do it too.

[Mattyblue]

You can have two opposing thoughts at once. 

I’d be gutted if we finished 7th, but I would still appreciate the job JDT has done in both league and cup with these players, budget and shambolic club set-up.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Death spinal sounds very painful.

IMO, it is hypothetical bollocks that even if we made the play off final, some fans "wouldnt accept JDT."

Only saying what these people say and they don't like him

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He is downplaying things for the exact same reason, and I am sure managers at other clubs do it too.

He taking the pressure of the players in public

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But come on, its a poor quality league. The parachute money can cause a disparity but not all of the clubs that come down are run efficiently enough to use them as a big advantage, they just end up being used to prop up inflated wage bills. You get some teams like Fulham last year and Burnley this that are a class apart but you also get teams like Watford/Norwich that may have individuals above our station but who are a bit all over the place. We are also competing with teams like Luton and Millwall who we shouldn't have inferiority complexes about. We also have the advantage of an excellent academy that granted we end up over reliant on but one that Venkys dont deserve praise merely for not destructing. 

Lets have a bit of expectation about us. We are in the top 6, 10 games to go, drop out and it will be a huge disappointment, not an understandable first step of a project.

The league is very enjoyable to watch and unpredictable results in the league makes it good league IMO. 

Watford is disorganised club with shocking number of head coaches in such a short space of time. 

I want top 6 and playoff place but if we didn't get it I would be disappoint but still think JDT has done a very good job in his first season in this league 

[roversfan99]

28 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You can have two opposing thoughts at once. 

I’d be gutted if we finished 7th, but I would still appreciate the job JDT has done in both league and cup with these players, budget and shambolic club set-up.

Of course, I wouldn't be calling for his head or anything silly, but I just wish we could have a semblence of ambition and expectation as was the case pre Venkys. Players and budget wise, there is no reason why we shouldnt be aiming to finish higher than Luton and Millwall this season. And it would hard to be too optimistic as part of the project going into the next season that we wouldnt again fail to get over the line regardless of the first 3/4 of the season, that is certainly not specific to JDT.

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Only saying what these people say and they don't like him

He taking the pressure of the players in public

The league is very enjoyable to watch and unpredictable results in the league makes it good league IMO. 

Watford is disorganised club with shocking number of head coaches in such a short space of time. 

I want top 6 and playoff place but if we didn't get it I would be disappoint but still think JDT has done a very good job in his first season in this league 

Would disagree that it is particularly enjoyable to watch just because of the poor standard. I watched Sheff United v Luton earlier, terrible watching.

Have these people specifically said they wouldnt accept him even if he delivered tangible success ie a play off final? If so, they are surely a minority of very odd fans who arent judging on results.

[Mattyblue]

I am very ambitious, this is Blackburn Rovers. Sitting in fifth with ten to go says it’s possible.

But you still need to be realistic when you look at our resources and how the club is administered - I don’t have much in the way of expectation, not because I don’t have ambition for the grand old institution of BRFC, but because I don’t have any expectation of the conveyor belt of incompetents that have somehow ended up owning and running it for a decade.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mattyblue

[roverandout]

Play off challengers should be the minimum requirement for Blackburn rovers.  We were doing it pre walker, we should be doing it now even with such terrible owners

[47er]

8 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Interesting how TM was allowed to tread water for five years with little to no fan discontent, yet JDT will be in for it after one season? (And that’s with every chance that in that one season he betters TM’s *best* league finish and far better cup performances).

The strange phenomenon of Teflon Tony strikes again…

Probably because his first full season was an enjoyable promotion one albeit from the mislabelled Div 1. It gave him some goodwill for a while which he then used up.

2nd full season we had to stay up. Third we had to get in the top half and so on.

All miserly targets because we were never going to achieve a big one.

Edited March 11, 2023 by 47er

[Mattyblue]

It certainly is because of the promotion, the fanbase got spooked by L1, so he did deserve our gratitude for a swift exit from a division you can easily get stranded in.

However, I don’t think the goodwill that came from that ever did dry up towards him, despite years of mediocrity, he had Ewood eating out of his hands until, perhaps, the last month or so (and he wasn’t exactly turned on then either) - which is all very strange and not something we’d seen before with a manager (or will see again)

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Mattyblue]

17 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Play off challengers should be the minimum requirement for Blackburn rovers.  We were doing it pre walker, we should be doing it now even with such terrible owners

The second tier is totally different now in the era of parachutes. If you don’t have them you can’t ‘expect’ to be competing for the play offs as a ‘minimum requirement’.

Of course you can still make them, a couple of non-parachute clubs do every season, but with a middling budget everything needs to click into place - very good manager, good, motivated crop of players and a well run football club that does everything it can to get the best team on the pitch it’s resources allow. Do we have all that?

Edited March 11, 2023 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

34 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It certainly is because of the promotion, the fanbase got spooked by L1, so he did deserve our gratitude for a swift exit from a division you can easily get stranded in.

However, I don’t think the goodwill that came from that ever did dry up towards him, despite years of mediocrity, he had Ewood eating out of his hands until, perhaps, the last month or so (and he wasn’t exactly turned on then either) - which is all very strange and not something we’d seen before with a manager (or will see again)

Being portrayed as a nice honest humble working class guy (whilst earning 500k a year) can go a long way.  Don't be nasty even though you might not agree with him he's a nice honest guy trying his best in bad circumstances etc etc

That was Tony's own narrative that on the back of the league 1 promotion became engrained in our downtrodden moral beaten fanbase.  

Who else will come ?

Who else can do this job like TM ?   

were the cries amongst other things and not just by fans but by the man himself he had people hook line and sinker ( a bit like Lineker).   And like that is was mostly a load of old cobblers we've a novice in now with less to work with and he'll at least equal anything Mowbray ever did here in his first season.

And it turned out old Tone just like Gary was actually a little bit of a narcissist once the veil slipped.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by tomphil

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

I am very ambitious, this is Blackburn Rovers. Sitting in fifth with ten to go says it’s possible.

But you still need to be realistic when you look at our resources and how the club is administered - I don’t have much in the way of expectation, not because I don’t have ambition for the grand old institution of BRFC, but because I don’t have any expectation of the conveyor belt of incompetents that have somehow ended up owning and running it for a decade.

I totally get why people think this way. It is not that I necessarily don't get why expectations and standards are as low as they are, more that I find it sad and the proof of what Venkys have done to us rather than me thinking that it is an unrealistically low expectation.

That being said, I do think (not that you have said otherwise) that we should now expect a top 6 finish. The only teams with a really strong parachute advantage tend to be split between well run and not and many of our top 6 rivals have similar or even less than us, especially with our academy.

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

It certainly is because of the promotion, the fanbase got spooked by L1, so he did deserve our gratitude for a swift exit from a division you can easily get stranded in.

However, I don’t think the goodwill that came from that ever did dry up towards him, despite years of mediocrity, he had Ewood eating out of his hands until, perhaps, the last month or so (and he wasn’t exactly turned on then either) - which is all very strange and not something we’d seen before with a manager (or will see again)

The League 1 season did lower expectations, but for me the main thing was the covid season. It was the one of regression and interest was lessened plus nobody could have given him grief in the stadium anyway. I know this site isn't a good gauge but he was particularly criticised and a return to stadiums coinceded with an excellent first half to the season. 

[chaddyrovers]

16 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Would disagree that it is particularly enjoyable to watch just because of the poor standard. I watched Sheff United v Luton earlier, terrible watching.

I enjoyed watching championship/EFL football. I guess it depends on the game you choose to watch. I don't know how you watch Sheffield United vs Luton but I wouldn't have chosen to watch that game cos of how both teams play. I didn't watch any EFL football coverage yesterday. Watch bits of Norwich vs Sunderland today

16 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Have these people specifically said they wouldnt accept him even if he delivered tangible success ie a play off final? If so, they are surely a minority of very odd fans who arent judging on results.

One person who sits near me is still obsess with Mowbray and when we have bad period/half of game he is very quick to say that plenty would be booing if Mowbray was still in charge. He also said that he and his friends think JDT is far too arrogant and doesn't think he is right man for us. I made the point that most successful managers/head coaches are arrogant in some ways and mentioned Mourinho, Pep Guardiola and Klopp as 3 that are but Also Warnock in the same point and Mowbray was also arrogant in some ways aswell when he was here

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

, but for me the main thing was the covid season. It was the one of regression and interest was lessened plus nobody could have given him grief in the stadium anyway. I know this site isn't a good gauge but he was particularly criticised and a return to stadiums coinceded with an excellent first half to the season. 

I think that season he should have got us promote that season no doubt given the quality squad he had and the forward options was excellent. 

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I enjoyed watching championship/EFL football. I guess it depends on the game you choose to watch. I don't know how you watch Sheffield United vs Luton but I wouldn't have chosen to watch that game cos of how both teams play. I didn't watch any EFL football coverage yesterday. Watch bits of Norwich vs Sunderland today

One person who sits near me is still obsess with Mowbray and when we have bad period/half of game he is very quick to say that plenty would be booing if Mowbray was still in charge. He also said that he and his friends think JDT is far too arrogant and doesn't think he is right man for us. I made the point that most successful managers/head coaches are arrogant in some ways and mentioned Mourinho, Pep Guardiola and Klopp as 3 that are but Also Warnock in the same point and Mowbray was also arrogant in some ways aswell when he was here

I think that season he should have got us promote that season no doubt given the quality squad he had and the forward options was excellent. 

So it is just one idiot then? As expected.

If we got to a play off final, I refuse to believe that it wouldn't create so much additional faith in the manager across the fan base.

[Mattyblue]

I’m with the Chadster.

Loads of folk round me still worship Mogga. It was very evident against Swansea.

[roversfan99]

Mowbray certainly has people at one extreme or the other for the most part which is strange. He was a decent manager for us, yet people either can't let him go or seemingly despise him.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

So it is just one idiot then? As expected.

If we got to a play off final, I refuse to believe that it wouldn't create so much additional faith in the manager across the fan base.

no one is an idiot firstly but they have an opinion. As MattyBlue has said they are still quite a few people who would rather have Mowbray here than JDT. 

I agree with MattyBlue(again)'s comments about the Reading game

[DE.]

You see it quite often in the FB groups too. As soon as we lose a match or our form dips it's "told you all to be careful what you wished for, disgraceful treatment of TM coming back to bite you all now" etc. 

Still no JDT flags as far as I'm aware. Why exactly did we have those for Mowbray? That was proper cult of personality stuff and I never understood it. Summed up where we were as a club and as a majority fanbase at that point though - all hail our humble lord and saviour. 

For the record, despite being baffled by the above I don't hate or despise Mowbray. The way his final season ended, combined with his disparaging remarks towards the club since leaving, do leave a very sour taste in my mouth though. Those snidey comments about Dack as well a few months ago, trying to undermine JDT... nice bloke. Yeah, right. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

He was definitely a massive cult. At least I think that's what the bloke behind me said during the Fulham home game. 

[M_B]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray certainly has people at one extreme or the other for the most part which is strange. He was a decent manager for us, yet people either can't let him go or seemingly despise him.

It's a strange situation, can't ever remember it happening before. 

It does make me wonder how long people will carry it on for. Every decision Tomasson makes seems to be compared to what people think they know Mowbray would have done in that situation. 

It's all unprecedented to this extent , and also a bit odd. 

[roversfan99]

Mowbray definitely benefited in terms of expectations inheriting us at such a low ebb and also from the shielding of abuse that empty stadiums caused. Facebook pages are usually full of extremes from the side of thinking he was great, on here its over the top in abuse. 

The people in the ground around me I never got the impression liked Mowbray so guess it depends where you are in the ground. Tomasson inherited a much healthier situation on the pitch so there will be more expectation, throw in a fan base not over the frustration of last year and it may have led to less patience.

[Hasta]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m with the Chadster.

Loads of folk round me still worship Mogga. It was very evident against Swansea.

Too many people over-rated the job he did in an average league, then backed themselves into a corner with “who could do better?, who else could we get? , be careful what you wish for….”.

Now they stubbornly won’t accept they were wrong.
 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Hasta