Jon Dahl Tomasson - Officially No Longer Our Head Coach

[rigger]

14 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Compared to when? Crowds are no lower with JDT than any other time this past 5/6 years. Indeed they are actually slightly up on where they were when he took over.

We know why gates are low and it’s nowt to do with this manager.

 

The manager is implementing the way we play, I would say that has a direct bearing on the gates. I find it boring, you may not, that is our opinions and we are entitled to them.

[tomphil]

21 minutes ago, martonrover said:

Sunderland are ambitious and want to go up, so didn't let Mowbray outstay his welcome.

For us, it's the exact opposite of the above.

He seemed to do better at both clubs when he worked with what he had and added a few astute signings, it was the same at Boro at first.

Left to his own devices to play around with things as he saw fit within a low but not non existent budget he went nowhere and it seems Sunderland saw the flashing warning lights early.

[Mattyblue]

Gates are a tad higher that’s a fact, so is not about opinions. 

[roversfan99]

33 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Agree with a lot of that but can't let it pass without mentioning Mowbray had his best championship season here after his budget was cut and a lot of his previous options were gone.  He was forced to use what he had and the freshness told in the first 5 months before a combination of factors meant it went tits up.

No coincidence either that he goes into Sunderland and with someone else's squad gets them in the top 6 before reverting to type this season.

For several years he had relative luxury to do his own thing compared to what JDT has had, he also didn't have a DoF giving him players and instructions.  He did at Sunderland and last more than a season and a bit, so all things considered JDT is streets ahead of old Tone.

He wasnt at an advantage that his squad had been cut down. He created a way of playing and a tactic that saw us get an impressive points total over the course of the season. I know people are reluctant to praise Mowbray in any way but he did well considering specifically in that season, as has Tomasson since. If people cant bring themselves to give him any praise then fine but IMO thats not balanced.

Point being though, the squad since the cuts prior to Mowbrays final season have left us with a thin squad that gets less and less experienced each summer ever since. Mowbray for 1 season and Tomasson for 1 and a half season so far have done well in spite of that but in the last 2 seasons, results have sadly dipped as the seasons have gone on with that small squad catching up on us. I cant help but forsee history repeating itself.

 

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He wasnt at an advantage that his squad had been cut down. He created a way of playing and a tactic that saw us get an impressive points total over the course of the season. I know people are reluctant to praise Mowbray in any way but he did well considering specifically in that season, as has Tomasson since. If people cant bring themselves to give him any praise then fine but IMO thats not balanced.

Point being though, the squad since the cuts prior to Mowbrays final season have left us with a thin squad that gets less and less experienced each summer ever since. Mowbray for 1 season and Tomasson for 1 and a half season so far have done well in spite of that but in the last 2 seasons, results have sadly dipped as the seasons have gone on with that small squad catching up on us. I cant help but forsee history repeating itself.

 

My point being that non of that excuses Mowbray for the insipid stuff previously when he was basically allowed to build his own squad.  Albeit with limited funds and although i'll praise him for the good work he did in the first few years i don't put much stock into the last season at all. 

It was 5 months of him finally rolling his sleeves up and encouraging his young side to have a go but when it went wrong he didn't have a clue, spat his dummy out and was more concerned with sulking about his own situation and encouraging players to move on.

He undid a lot of his good work that's why he doesn't get much praise on here these days although it's harsh not acknowledge the ownership void he worked under.

As did/does everyone else in this era.

[rigger]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Gates are a tad higher that’s a fact, so is not about opinions. 

About 8000 on last night, whether that is more than previous low gates is irrelevent. The fact is, it should be more. Opinions decide whether some people attend or not. 

[Mattyblue]

We’ve had gates pretty much like this for a decade, especially low for night games purely because ST sales are so low.

JDT is nowt to do with it, as you know yourself as you often call Swag out for his ticket policies.

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, tomphil said:

My point being that non of that excuses Mowbray for the insipid stuff previously when he was basically allowed to build his own squad.  Albeit with limited funds and although i'll praise him for the good work he did in the first few years i don't put much stock into the last season at all. 

It was 5 months of him finally rolling his sleeves up and encouraging his young side to have a go but when it went wrong he didn't have a clue, spat his dummy out and was more concerned with sulking about his own situation and encouraging players to move on.

He undid a lot of his good work that's why he doesn't get much praise on here these days although it's harsh not acknowledge the ownership void he worked under.

As did/does everyone else in this era.

I dont think he hadnt been rolling up his sleeves prior. And it seems like choosing out of personal dislike not to credit him for an impressive points tally at all, which isnt really balanced. He did really poorly the season before, then surprisingly did well the season after.

But either way, my point related to our recent points hauls in the last 2 years, how they were both impressive considering the size of the squads but how the squad caught up on both and how the squad is perhaps even smaller now, so its hard to see us sustaining a play off push. And I suspect at best next summer will come around, x y and z will be sold/released/go back to their parent club, we will replace like for like and still have a small squad and likely an inferior manager to Tomasson and to be honest even Mowbray.

[Polky]

 

[Upside Down]

6 hours ago, rigger said:

The trouble is, fewer people are walking up LBR, win or lose.

See the millions of posts on this forum that explain this in detail.

[rigger]

4 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

See the millions of posts on this forum that explain this in detail.

I've told you a million times , not to exaggerate.

[RoversClitheroe]

6 hours ago, rigger said:

The manager is implementing the way we play, I would say that has a direct bearing on the gates. I find it boring, you may not, that is our opinions and we are entitled to them.

Have you been watching us this season?

We've been exciting be it a bit mental.

But it's miles better than last season.

[martonrover]

With the resources at his disposal, JDT does well to have such a high win percentage. 
 

Expecting him to win in style is really pushing it.

He can’t even be blamed for the players brought in during his tenure, because they are not his signings.

It’s painfully obvious we lack pace in attack and a decent , actual striker.

 

[rigger]

32 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Have you been watching us this season?

We've been exciting be it a bit mental.

But it's miles better than last season.

Home and away. Home especially I find boring to watch, sometimes even when we  win. This time last year we were in the play-off positions, so I would say that was more exciting than the present situation 

[rigger]

10 minutes ago, martonrover said:

With the resources at his disposal, JDT does well to have such a high win percentage. 
 

Expecting him to win in style is really pushing it.

He can’t even be blamed for the players brought in during his tenure, because they are not his signings.

It’s painfully obvious we lack pace in attack and a decent , actual striker.

 

Wasn't Telalovic a sprinter when he was younger, he is a striker, it's just that we don't know at what level because he hasn't been given a prolonged chance. If he isn't good enough, so be it, but give him a go.

Edited December 13, 2023 by rigger

[Mattyblue]

The football was more prosaic at this stage last season, but yes we we were in the top 6, ergo exciting, so it IS all about results then.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mattyblue

[rigger]

24 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The football was more prosaic at this stage last season, but yes we we were in the top 6, ergo exciting, so it IS all about results then.

I have never said that it isn't all about results. What I have said is that I am bored with the present football we are playing.

[Mattyblue]

Who has played better football here in the past decade? Who has got better results?

[rigger]

11 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Who has played better football here in the past decade? Who has got better results?

That is a very low bar

[Mattyblue]

Not saying otherwise.

But you say you aren’t enjoying the football ‘at present’, so presumably then you were enjoying the football on show in recent times from other managers, who?

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mattyblue

[rigger]

8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Not saying otherwise.

But you say you aren’t enjoying the football ‘at present’, so presumably then you were enjoying the football on show in recent times from other managers, who?

Mowbray, in division one 

[superniko]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

Wasn't Telalovic a sprinter when he was younger, he is a striker, it's just that we don't know at what level because he hasn't been given a prolonged chance. If he isn't good enough, so be it, but give him a go.

No, his Wikipedia page said his teenage times would’ve given a few known drugs cheats a run for their money in the 100m……that’s conveniently been deleted off there since. 
From what I’ve seen he looks like he’s running in treacle. 
 

For clarity, Wikipedia said he ran 100m in 10.14 when he was 17. 
The 100m world record for a 17 year old is 10.01, so it is complete tripe that either someone involved, or someone having a laugh added to his page. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by superniko

[Mattyblue]

8 minutes ago, rigger said:

Mowbray, in division one 

Hmm, wonder what the difference might have been down there…

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

Wasn't Telalovic a sprinter when he was younger, he is a striker, it's just that we don't know at what level because he hasn't been given a prolonged chance. If he isn't good enough, so be it, but give him a go.

When we did see him, (albeit briefly), he looked miles away.

Even if JDT did just bung him in, I think he would get lost in the same way that Leonard and Ennis do.

If there’s one position that JDT should be a good judge of it’s surely centre forward.

He might come good in time, but we clearly needed at least one out and out striker who was oven ready to come in and make an impact.

[rigger]

11 minutes ago, martonrover said:

When we did see him, (albeit briefly), he looked miles away.

Even if JDT did just bung him in, I think he would get lost in the same way that Leonard and Ennis do.

If there’s one position that JDT should be a good judge of it’s surely centre forward.

He might come good in time, but we clearly needed at least one out and out striker who was oven ready to come in and make an impact.

We have no money !