v Millwall (h) - 18/4/2025

[superniko]

35 minutes ago, M_B said:

I mentioned Eustace, why stop at 5?

“Confidence was absolutely waning when Ismael took over as proved by the poor results and performances”

That was the quote that was being replied to. 
We won 3 in 5 including a big away win at West Brom with the players celebrating with fans and sat in the Top 6 - they certainly should not have been low on confidence, and if they were they’re mentally weak.

 

Edited April 18 by superniko

[bazza]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Why does frustration over only turning up once the season is over in terms of the play offs equate to wanting to lose?

We knew the play-offs had gone before kick-off. Let's just enjoy what we can

[Hasta]

3 minutes ago, arbitro said:

But Swansea away, the last match under Lowe we looked particularly poor.

We’ve looked particularly poor in one off odd games for long, long time under every manager under Venkys. 

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you not think that he would have picked up more than 1 point from those 6 games? The bad run wasn't that level of bad.

That's why I said conjecture on my part.

[Hasta]

13 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I was referring specifically to the results under Eustace.

Which was a bit daft considering what you replied to with your first  sentences. But even under Eustace the Sunderland, Burnley and Leeds performances (without the key Trav / Tronstadt axis) were still decent. His penultimate game against Preston was also good for 80 minutes. It’s not like we were completely shocking.

Lowe proved the spirit and mentality was still there with his 2 wins.

A meagre 1 point per game return from the new manager would have still kept us in with a sniff, but we couldn’t manage that. 

Edited April 18 by Hasta

[Mattyblue]

Oh Rev. 🤦‍♂️

Please, please just put your hands up and say you initially misjudged a player, we’ve all done it… I mean, plenty on here did with Sammie.

(You won’t, of course, as your weak spot as a poster has always been that you decide to die on hills on day 1, when you could easily just walk back down them).

Edited April 18 by Mattyblue

[arbitro]

7 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Which was a bit daft considering what you replied to. But even under Eustace the Sunderland, Burnley and Leeds performances (without the key Trav / Tronstadt axis) were still decent. His penultimate game against Preston was also good for 80 minutes. It’s not like we were completely shocking.

Lowe proved the spirit and mentality was still there with his 2 wins.

A meagre 1 point per game return from the new manager would have still kept us in with a sniff, but we couldn’t manage that. 

 

 

The games you mention were good performances but we got two points out of a possible nine. I really think that losing matches affects confidence even if it's a good performance.

Lowe's first two games were undoubtedly good but his third was one of the worst of the season.

The last eleven games under Eustace were won 2, drew 2, lost 7. Currently Ismael has player nine, won 2, drawn 2 and lost 5. Comparable to say the least.

Edited April 18 by arbitro

[Bbrovers2288]

Ach, always nice to get a win and a convincing one at that , however it still doesn’t excuse the months of anguish we have been subjected to and plummeted down the league again. 
don’t let a few good results cloud your minds, it should still be a us vs them mentality. Can support the team but not the regime 

[Forever Blue]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

3 wins from 5 before he came in.

West Brom was one of the best performances of the season.

 

The debacle under VI is entirely his fault. As you point out it’s a myth to say we had no confidence and were on an irreversible decline. WBA was indeed  an excellent performance.

All VI had to do was do what Lowe had done - instil a bit of belief in the players and allow them to play with a bit more freedom than they had under Eustace. He even said he wasn’t going to change much.

Instead he changed everything to the point that the team was devoid of any structure. It’s only in the last couple of games that he appears to be getting his ideas across and getting the team organised. 
 

To not win in his first 7 games was a disgrace, and it’s all on him. A couple more wins and we’d be in the play off hunt. 
 

So yeah, he’s massively failed. 

Edited April 18 by Forever Blue

[M_B]

36 minutes ago, Hasta said:

@arbitro said that confidence was absolutely waning proved by poor performances and results when Ismael took over. 
 

I mentioned 3 from 5 which was the immediate games when Ismael took over. Surely that shows an upsurge in confidence.

Then for some reason you mentioned 2 from 11. You’ve not gone further than 5. You’ve just ignored the Lowe games.

And even within the Eustace spell, where we were short on wins, he played Leeds, Burnley and Sunderland. None of which were poor performances.

The "immediate" game was Swansea, one of the worst "performances"  in living memory. That is actually the most recent form before he took over.
You  keep on repeating 3 from 5 as if it's the only figures allowed in law.

[arbitro]

8 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

The debacle under VI is entirely his fault. As you point out it’s a myth to say we had no confidence and were on an irreversible decline. WBA was indeed  an excellent performance.

All VI had to do was do what Lowe had done - instil a bit of belief in the players and allow them to play with a bit more freedom than they had under Eustace. He even said he wasn’t going to change much.

Instead he changed everything to the point that the team was devoid of any structure. It’s only in the last couple of games that he appears to be getting his ideas across and getting the team organised. 
 

To not win in his first 7 games was a disgrace, and it’s all on him. A couple more wins and we’d be in the play off hunt. 
 

So yeah, he’s massively failed. 

Changed everything?

[martonrover]

Win, lose or draw, it’s all just an academic exercise until the end of the season.

Then it’ll be the usual shenanigans in the Summer, no doubt.

It’ll be the team that takes the field in August that matters.

Best case scenario - another pretend play off push.

Worst case scenario - relegation.

[M_B]

9 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

The debacle under VI is entirely his fault. As you point out it’s a myth to say we had no confidence and were on an irreversible decline. WBA was indeed  an excellent performance.

All VI had to do was do what Lowe had done - instil a bit of belief in the players and allow them to play with a bit more freedom than they had under Eustace. He even said he wasn’t going to change much.

Instead he changed everything to the point that the team was devoid of any structure. It’s only in the last couple of games that he appears to be getting his ideas across and getting the team organised. 
 

To not win in his first 7 games was a disgrace, and it’s all on him. A couple more wins and we’d be in the play off hunt. 
 

So yeah, he’s massively failed. 

It has been terrible until recently, but there definitely are mitigating circumstances.

Not one person on here would disagree that Eustace was massively let down in January, but Ismael has had a skeleton squad available of even those available to Eustace.

For a team which doesn't score many to lose it's top scorer, was a massive blow.

[Tugayisgod]

One thing today that really stood out for me was the work rate of Cantwell, something he's not renowned for.

May not have been his best game overall but he didn't half put a shift in today

[Forever Blue]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Changed everything?

Yep, implemented his ‘boys in the playground’ football straight away, and in doing so took all the structure out of the team. All he had to do was stick to what Lowe was doing and tinker round the edges. He said he would and then did the opposite. He fucked up. 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Trying to put the game in perspective - it was a typical Championship match where taking chances made all the difference. They had chances, which if they had taken, would have meant an entirely different match.

I do like the fact the players look to be putting the effort in - with forward running off the ball good at times.

What I found more worrying was the number of times players (sometimes 3) challenged for the same ball, This can be a positive sign of a motivated team - but it can also show a lack of organisation - and there was a number of times where we could easily have come unstuck..

But looking on the positive - Millwall have been on a good run away from home recently - so it is a good result. Especially as I felt the referee let far too much go - on a different day that could easily have influenced the result (I suppose he didn't disallow our second - though I thought we had a shout for a penalty anyway.

[arbitro]

Just now, Tugayisgod said:

One thing today that really stood out for me was the work rate of Cantwell, something he's not renowned for.

May not have been his best game overall but he didn't half put a shift in today

He was easily knocked off the ball a couple of times in the first half but you are spot on about his effort and endeavour. He played in a similar vein at Luton until he was sacrificed after Montgomery's red card.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Just now, arbitro said:

He was easily knocked off the ball a couple of times in the first half but you are spot on about his effort and endeavour. He played in a similar vein at Luton until he was sacrificed after Montgomery's red card.

Maybe he has realised, if he doesn't pick up his performances he will be stuck at Rovers another season.

[Forever Blue]

4 minutes ago, M_B said:

It has been terrible until recently, but there definitely are mitigating circumstances.

Not one person on here would disagree that Eustace was massively let down in January, but Ismael has had a skeleton squad available of even those available to Eustace.

For a team which doesn't score many to lose its top scorer, was a massive blow.

 Think you’re overplaying the ‘massive blow’ of losing Ohashi. It’s not like we lost Szmodics! 

[Hasta]

16 minutes ago, M_B said:

The "immediate" game was Swansea, one of the worst "performances"  in living memory. That is actually the most recent form before he took over.
You  keep on repeating 3 from 5 as if it's the only figures allowed in law.

But he talked about previous performances,  not just the Swansea game. You could extend it if you want from 5 games, but it’s absolute nonsense to suggest that there were no good performances or results before Ismael came in.

However when people eliminate the Lowe’s wins and only focus on the Eustace results to prove form had gone then that is clearly deflection
 

And even in Eustace worst run of the season, he played tougher fixtures and generated better performances. Plus he wanted out and the players probably knew it.
,

Edited April 18 by Hasta

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, Forever Blue said:

Yep, implemented his ‘boys in the playground’ football straight away, and in doing so took all the structure out of the team. All he had to do was stick to what Lowe was doing and tinker round the edges. He said he would and then did the opposite. He fucked up. 

With a couple of exceptions (Derby away going to a back three) the shape has been pretty much the same as Eustace and Lowe. I haven't seen too much of a shift in tactics neither.

I really don't understand your 'boys in the playground' comment.

[Hasta]

6 minutes ago, arbitro said:

With a couple of exceptions (Derby away going to a back three) the shape has been pretty much the same as Eustace and Lowe. I haven't seen too much of a shift in tactics neither.

I really don't understand your 'boys in the playground' comment.

Stoke started a back 3. In his 2nd and 3rd game in charge he switched to an unfamiliar shape.  Ludicrous having take over a team in 5th.
 

Although to be fair to all managers, we needed competent cover for the New Year injuries and we got Forshaw, Woodrow and an unfit Dennis.

Edited April 18 by Hasta

[M_B]

7 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

 Think you’re overplaying the ‘massive blow’ of losing Ohashi. It’s not like we lost Szmodics! 

I was on about Weimann

[Forever Blue]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

With a couple of exceptions (Derby away going to a back three) the shape has been pretty much the same as Eustace and Lowe. I haven't seen too much of a shift in tactics neither.

I really don't understand your 'boys in the playground' comment.

If you’ve not seen it then it’s probably not worth discussing it. It’s been very obvious what has changed. And the boys in the playground comment is exactly how we’ve played - lots of running round like headless chickens without any organisation. Thats exactly how his first 5 or 6 matches played out. And then subs on 60 mins when the players are gassed. You must be one of the few who missed it. 

Thankfully he’s managed to impose some structure back on the team. Sadly too little too late. 

[Forever Blue]

Just now, M_B said:

I was on about Weimann

Oh the guy who wasn’t a regular starter