Stolen by the Ref

[Hasta]

England were not good enough to win the tournament anyway as they play boring football and have a manager who plays his team on players reputations.

I wholeheartedly agree with that.

[Radagast]

Please enlighten me on who these previous scapegoats are apart from actual players.

Oh, do they not count?

And saying there would have been no 'outrage' had such a goal gone in at the other end - you're kidding yourself.

[Oklahoma]

18000 emails he got ,it would have been 17950 if i hadnt sent any

[Hasta]

Please enlighten me on who these previous scapegoats are apart from actual players.

Oh, do they not count?

But for most defeats at football some or all of the players are blamed. We see it week in week out on here after a Rovers defeat. You might as well say you can set your watch by it - football team loses scapegoat must be found. The fact is in this case it's a bad decision that's cost us.

In 1989 for the Palace playoffs did you say thats right blame courtney - Rovers not good enough so scapegoat must be found?

[Radagast]

I was 6 years old in 1989 I can't remember much to be honest. My point is that if that incident hadn't occured, another scapegoat would have been found to sling mud at - the guy that broke Rooney, for instance, or, failing to find an external one, the Beckham canes could have been dusted down after 6 years.

[FourLaneBlue]

IN 1989 I had only just turned 12 but even I remember that either Courtney or Howard Gayle (for missing the pen in the first leg) was the scapegoat.

It doesn't need to be a player to be a scapegoat; just someone (anyone) to blame for it all.

England scapegoats -

World Cup 86 - Diego Maradona (cheating fisting Argie...) just coming ahead of naughty Ray Wilkins throwing the ball at the ref in the game against Morocco.

Euro 88 - For generally being rubbish, Bobby Robson. That's what three defeats out of three does for you.

Italia 90 - Probably Chris Waddle. Pearce cried a lot so we felt sorry for him but Waddle's penalty went into orbit and is still apparently circling some distant planet to this day.

Sweden 92 - Turnip Taylor.

USA 94 - Truly Turnip Taylor for not even getting us there! Would have been interesting to see how England would have been received over there in the World Cup. Especially as we even let them beat us 2-0 the year before just to be nice/ because we were rubbish (take your pick).

Euro 96 - Southgate. Even his mum asked "why didn't you just hit it?"

World Cup 98 - Beckham with that nancy little flick. The effigies on the lamp posts were a bit harsh though at West Ham. Those 'loveable' cockneys eh?!?

Euro 2000 - An assortment of riches, so many to choose from... Phil Neville/Keegan/Mcmanaman/the fans/the police/the media/the World Cup bid etc etc

World Cup 02 - Seaman mainly...

This time - A Swiss ref? Heskey for that foul against France? Sven? Beckham's missing two penalties and being too tired?

Yep...we always need a scapegoat when England go out! Now I can't remember an international tournament before 86 but wasn't the likes of Peter Bonetti, Don Revie and even Sir Alf Ramsey (sacked in 73) scapegoats then???

It's time we moved on and wished the other teams the best of luck. Only two years to wait before another gutting knockout and the search for someone to blame...

Edited June 30, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[kingalan]

Computer's been in the shop since Friday, so this si the first I've seen of this thread. The treatment of Meier (for making the correct decision, I hasten to add) has been shocking, and typical of the Enlgish gutter press*. You can set your watch by this sort of thing - England go out, scapegoat must find. Ask yourself this - if an identical 'goal' had been scored at the other end of the park, and Mr Meier had allowed it to stand, would the "England Robbed By Blunder Ref" headlines still have been written? I think so.

*Ian Wright's reaction in the studio afterwards was both disgusting and hilarious in equal volumes. "He's a cheat". What a ######.

Finally, finally, finally, a post under this thread with a bit of sense. I'm absolutely astounded at the reaction to the ref's decision and appalled at the anitcs and witch-hunt which the Scum is carrying out against this poor Swiss referee.

I'll paint a little picture for you:

It's 1-1 with two minutes to go, and England have been ravaging Portugal throughout the match. The stats show that England have had over 60% of the possession, twice as many attempts on target, and have conceded half as many fouls as their opponents. Then, Portugal make a foray forward and the ball cannons off the bar from a shot by Gomes before falling to Postiga in the area. James goes to jump for the ball, but is impeded by Ronaldo who inadvertently puts his arm across the 'keepers chest. Helder scores with a free header and wheels away in delight...

Of course, the stats are in fact Portugal's match statistics and show that they were by far the superior side in the match. But please, do not spout the nonsense that had the above actually happened then English fans would have taken the defeat with dignity and grace. What a load of horse manure.

If England had deserved to get anything out of the game and had the goal been more controversial, then I could perhaps understand this over reaction to the ref's decision. But face it, it was a goal, everyone outside of England (ie. the rest of the world who watched the match) agree it WAS a foul, and most importantly, Portugal were the better team and deserved to go through.

The English media, in particular the Sun, are making a complete t1t of England with their hate campaign against the ref, Urs Meier, and you're being laughed at by the rest of Europe by not letting go of this "issue". Get over it.

If you want to direct abuse at me personally, then my email address is:

itwasafoul@hotmail.com

[Oklahoma]

If you want to direct abuse at me personally, then my email address is:

itwasafoul@hotmail.com

[Roaming Rover]

Those bloody English eh, always looking for a scapegoat. Why can't we be like the rest of the world and just accept defeat with out looking for someone else to blame

Scotland - Vogts - not Scottish so doesn't have the passion thats why they didn't qualify (add any major tournament you wish here!!), Kenny Dalglish for not coming out of retirement when he is still the best player Scotland have (Excluding Ferguson)..........................................

Wales - Ryan Giggs for only being welsh when a big game comes along, Russians for taking illegal substances.........................

Italy - The media and every manager they have ever had, the shoes and socks they are wearing each other, mafia, Sweden & Denmark............i could go on but this would turn into the longest post ever looking at the Italians reasons for failing!!!

Republic of Ireland - Roy keane or Mick (Depending on which way you looked at it).

Holland - Anyone and Everyone.

So it seems the English are't the only ones to look elsewhere when they fail

[Tom Pringle]

If it had been the other way around , Matt , 99% of our fans would have agreed that the goal should have counted - the English are like that !

If thats a hook to hook onto then i'll gladly grab it

What a load of crap.

It must just be me then Tom ! Put it this way - if UTD scored a goal like that against the Rovers I would have no complaints at all if the ref allowed it . (1% of know nothings might complain . Maybe you'd be among them......?)

If you read my posts in various Euro 2004 threads scattered around this forum you'll notice that i said the goal should have stood. Decisions like that will either be given or wont, it depends on the ref. Nothing more we can do, let it go.

What i'm disputing is you saying that 99% of the English fans would accept it.

It's happened at the other end and correct me if i'm wrong, but 99% of the English message board members aren't saying it was the right decision never mind 99% of the English public.

The only reason the sensible part of the English population would have accepted defeat that way is because of our negative play.

[Lathund]

I think its daft its got to the stage that Meier needs police protection because he has received death threats.  However, I don't think he is doing himself any favours by talking to the media.  I heard an interview with him on Radio1 on the way home and he was saying that both Campbell and Terry fouled the keeper?!?!?

I think he should just shut up if he doesnt want to make things worse for himself.

Yeah it's HIS fault he needs police protection, it has NOTHING to do with The Sun publishing his adress and phone number and urging people to threaten him The people doing it are all really nice people deep down inside.

Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

It's a situation where you could both give or disallow the goal without either being really incorrect. That goal may well have been given in Britain or Scandinavia, but it would never have stood in Italy or Spain. And no interpretation is the "right" one. It doesn't matter where the game was invented btw... He made a split second judgement on an incident we get the luxury of seeing 100x in slow motion replays, he may have been wrong and he may have been right, but he certainly doesn't deserve the treatment he's getting. And the best team over 120 minutes won anyway.

And beating up someonel just for being Swiss??? I bet the Sun are happy though, gives their campaign some more attention. Next they'll be going after anyone from a country starting with S.

Edited July 1, 2004 by Lathund

[78]

The English media, in particular the Sun, are making a complete t1t of England with their hate campaign against the ref, Urs Meier, and you're being laughed at by the rest of Europe by not letting go of this "issue". Get over it.

If you want to direct abuse at me personally, then my email address is:

itwasafoul@hotmail.com

Excellent post.

What I'm disappointed with is the Sun's whole "hate campaign." It's almost like an adult abusing someone else infront of his kids- his actions is showing these kids that it's ok to abuse someone and violate his rights. I hope the media or journalism authorities (whoever they may be) take action because what the Sun has done is just stupid and dangerous- what if some idiots get egged by this campaign to go and take action against this ref or his family? As a paper they need to have some sort of moral responsibility to the public.

The ironic part is that not too long ago they plastered the faces of the hooligans that were sent home and now they go and act just as foolish and stupid as those yobs.

Maybe The Sun should plaster their front page with the faces of the idiots who are responsible for this stupid campaign.

[ptholt]

Have to say after reading all the complete gibberish of 'how we wuzz robbed' etc its no wonder we are referred to as 'whinging pomms/limeys'

If there was a sour grapes vineyard in the uk you'd be allowed to buy the wine at 20p a bottle theres so much of it.

[broadsword]

Twaddle, we're talking about the world ganging up on us here, taking revenge for our great nation bestraddling the waves and teaching savages how to cook things other than their relatives.

They're jealous of our way of life.

So what do they do? They disallow our goals.

Tossers.

Edited July 1, 2004 by Bryan

[ptholt]

Twaddle, we're talking about the world ganging up on us here, taking revenge for our great nation bestraddling the waves and teaching savages how to cook things other than their relatives.

They're jealous of our way of live.

So what do they do? They disallow our goals.

Tossers.

The jury for the defence rests m'lord.

[Flopsy]

Oh if only Sol’s first header had gone in. Oh well, after a while to calm down, id still allow the goal, mainly because the linesman was nearest and didn’t flag.

However I thought the Ref was pants all game, allowing Portugal to get away with damn near assault and then blowing his whistle and penalising England – I remember Vassel standing still and having a defender park his arse in vassel’s neck and the free kick went portugals way. All in all a poor reffing display.

But does he deserve the stuff thrown at him by our lovely press.

Er no

IT’S ONLY A BLOODY GAME

[Presty On Tour]

Think how guted i feel, half welsh, half english. Live in wales, can't belive Wales didnt qualify, woz well guted. Support England in the Championships, go out on pens as usual!!

[blue phil]

Oh if only Sol’s first header had gone in.

.......the Swisscum ref would still have found a reason for disallowing it ! (I'm only half joking....!)

[Radagast]

Erm, quite...

[Billy Castell]

Right, it was the Sun who printed the refs details. I believe the editor is that woman who led the campaign to name and picture paedophiles, which led to some paediatritians (i.e. doctors for children) to be abused by 1/4 witted chavs who need to think for 10 minutes before they wipe their butt. In fact, I'm so annoyed with the Sun, I wish that there was a campaign to harrass their journalists.

Any help with personal e-mails, phone numbers etc. of Sun 'journalists' will be helpful. Or I may just complain with an e-mail to the website.

[Hasta]

Urs Meier. Can you hear me Urs Meier? You're boys took one hell of a beating.

[greggyk]

Urs Meier. Can you hear me Urs Meier? You're boys took one hell of a beating.

too right!

[youandwhosearmy]

it should have been a goal, if you actually WATCH the incident you will see that the keeper is out of sorts and puts HIS arms around terry

i suspect a few of these opinions are based on photographs which look like terry has his arms around the keeper

it wasnt just that decision, he was awful the entire match---a complete disgrace

hope he gets everything he deserves, he bottled it

anyways glad portugal got beat, knocks them back down to earth, i mean they've only had one good game the entire tournement (against england, which i believe was more are fault for being @#/? that day) greece however have beaten fance and the c.republic, as well as portugal twice

ps. was anyone else laughing when they saw ronaldo crying, i may sound bitter, but so be it

[waggy]

another major tourney comes to a end,good old greece stuffed the [uefa will path the way to the final]portugese,whatever our thoughts about certian refereeing decisions we WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH,SEND THE SWEDE HOME

[Billy Castell]

Thanks for saying that Waggy. I repeat it again: WE WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN, either the tournament, or against Portugal. Nor will we ever win if we have a team that is frightened of the ball, lack technical ability, and have little in the way of vision.

So stop whining about the ref against Portugal, and except that they deserved to win that match anyway.

Edited July 4, 2004 by Billy Castell