Stewarding and the club/fan relationship

[CAPT KAYOS]

Standing up at football matches is another form of anti-social behaviour in my view.

The club has to take firm action to deal with this growing problem. The only way as I see it is to adopt a "zero tolerance" approach.

All those "supporters" - home and away - who persist in standing up, to the detriment of law-abiding fans who are happy to watch the match sitting down, should be thrown out of the ground and banned from the ground.

These are the same morons who continue to defy smoking bans on trains and in restaurants, the same cretins who litter the streets instead of putting their rubbish in a bin or take it home, the same imbeciles who endanger other people's lives by breaking the speed limit on the roads.

They should not be allowed to attend football matches until they have learnt how to behave properly.

Did you sit down on the terraces then Jim??

I prefer to stand so in answer to your points

No - otherwise you'll get thrown out for going to your seat eg how far do you take it?

Is this not prejudice against the choice of a standing fan?

I don't smoke

I don't litter the streets (one of my pet hates as well) except if you include my body for when I've over indulged the Guinness

Mmm... speeding - guilty sorry - I'll give you that one - but would also include those in this that drive too slow and haven't got a friggin clue what the lanes are for on the Motoways and what the rules are at a roundabout

any more ?

[cletus]

jim mk2 Posted on Oct 20 2004, 15:59 

  Standing up at football matches is another form of anti-social behaviour in my view.

The club has to take firm action to deal with this growing problem. The only way as I see it is to adopt a "zero tolerance" approach.

All those "supporters" - home and away - who persist in standing up, to the detriment of law-abiding fans who are happy to watch the match sitting down, should be thrown out of the ground and banned from the ground.

These are the same morons who continue to defy smoking bans on trains and in restaurants, the same cretins who litter the streets instead of putting their rubbish in a bin or take it home, the same imbeciles who endanger other people's lives by breaking the speed limit on the roads.

They should not be allowed to attend football matches until they have learnt how to behave properly.

I`m sorry Jim, but i totally dissagree with you.

"It`s the law"...maybe, but it`s a stupid law.

Football used to be the peoples game. Now it`s overpriced, with overpaid players who have little in common with the fans & now any last remnants of fans passion & support is being slowly squeezed out.

...why don`t the club try playing "Sit down if you hate Man U" continually over the tannoy at the Liverpool game. It just might work!!

[stuwilky]

Ladies and Gentlemen.

I am arranging to go into the club and speak to Stuart Caley about this issue.  I am fairly confident of the reply I will get.  If anyone wants me to raise a specific point I am happy to do so.

Please send me a PM if this is the case.

Stu

OK,

as a follow up to this post I have arranged to see Stuart (and possibly John Newsham) at 1pm next Tuesday 26th October.

Thanks to those who have PM'd info to me.

AS I said I am happy to raise any reasonable issue that I receive before about 6pm on Monday. I will of course post a full synopsis on here sometimeTuesday evening.

Stu

Edited October 20, 2004 by stuwilky

[Glenn]

Standing up at football matches is another form of anti-social behaviour in my view.

The club has to take firm action to deal with this growing problem. The only way as I see it is to adopt a "zero tolerance" approach.

All those "supporters" - home and away - who persist in standing up, to the detriment of law-abiding fans who are happy to watch the match sitting down, should be thrown out of the ground and banned from the ground.

These are the same morons who continue to defy smoking bans on trains and in restaurants, the same cretins who litter the streets instead of putting their rubbish in a bin or take it home, the same imbeciles who endanger other people's lives by breaking the speed limit on the roads.

They should not be allowed to attend football matches until they have learnt how to behave properly.

I think you are missing the point here Jim, lots of people who are upset with the club are NOT persistant and/or anti-social standers and would in fact welcome a zero-tolerence policy. The problem is it's curently a selective-tolerance policy depending on where you sit.

DMF > Yes I stand if my view is obscured by people in front standing (so thats during action towards the BBE especially corners) and during celebrations and remostrations. I've even been know to stand at away game if the stewards allow and I'm not causing inconvenience to others. I do however object to those that cause inconvenience to others by standing.

[jim mk2]

Yes I stand if my view is obscured by people in front standing .

And therein lies the problem.

Supporters have to stand because the ones in front are standing too.

And what happens if you ask them (as I have done done many times, politely) to sit down ? They either laugh in your face, give you verbal abuse or threaten you with violence.

These idiots stand because they know they can get away with it.

Stewards/police should remove all those fans who stand up throughout the match without due regard for those sitting behind them. They should be ejected from the ground and banned from Ewood.

[stuwilky]

Stewards/police should remove all those fans who stand up throughout the match without due regard for those sitting behind them. They should be ejected from the ground and banned from Ewood.

your astounding tolerance of others astounds me jim.

Banned from Ewood?

Nowt like a sledgehammer to crack a nut

[den]

We should be careful on this thread, that we don't confuse the situation. I don't think we should be discussing the issue of standing/sitting during games. The issue is what was going on in the BBE last Saturday.

The club must realise that at this time, with the fans pretty much up to the teeth with the so called football on display for the last couple of seasons and drifting away in hordes, that even THREATENING to throw the fans out, is counter productive to the extreme.

Hopefully, during the Liverpool game, the stewards will take a much more tolerant view and we wont see a repeat of last weekend.

That's my viewpoint, anyway.

[CAPT KAYOS]

We should be careful on this thread, that we don't confuse the situation. I don't think we should be discussing the issue of standing/sitting during games. The issue is what was going on in the BBE last Saturday.

The club must realise that at this time, with the fans pretty much up to the teeth with the so called football on display for the last couple of seasons and drifting away in hordes, that even THREATENING to throw the fans out, is counter productive to the extreme.

Hopefully, during the Liverpool game, the stewards will take a much more tolerant view and we wont see a repeat of last weekend.

That's my viewpoint, anyway.

With all respect Den IMO this interlinked and was the basis of the problem -including what was happening on the pitch.

[The Harwood Yankee]

An article in the Yorkshire Evening Post this week was pleading with Leeds fans to sit down during their next away game with Reading because Reading have told Leeds they will reduce their ticket allocation if persistent standing continues. If Rovers issued the same ultimatum to the clubs of away fans who stand it would prompt them to action. (Or try to get tickets in the home sections, I suppose).

In any case, BRFC desperately needs to make a positive gesture of reconciliation towards the home fans after Saturday or, as others have said on here, (coupled with the appalling football on display) fans will simply not bother going. Attendances at the last 2 home games have struggled around the 20,000 mark. Last Saturday we were the lowest attended match in the Premiership. We are also the team to have conceded the most goals in the Premiership. The incentive to attend is diminishing each week.

I dont believe this has reached crisis point yet, but it will if the board dont act more sympathetically than the statement released by Tom Finn earlier today (20 October) which acknowledged the problem but made no indication of what would be done.

p.s. Dont blame the company who supply the stewards. At least they perform the seemingly impossible by getting a few Asians into Ewood on a Saturday!!

[den]

We should be careful on this thread, that we don't confuse the situation.  I don't think we should be discussing the issue of standing/sitting during games. The issue is what was going on in the BBE last Saturday.

The club must realise that at this time, with the fans pretty much up to the teeth with the so called football on display for the last couple of seasons and drifting away in hordes, that even THREATENING to throw the fans out, is counter productive to the extreme.

Hopefully, during the Liverpool game, the stewards will take a much more tolerant view and we wont see a repeat of last weekend.

That's my viewpoint, anyway.

With all respect Den IMO this interlinked and was the basis of the problem -including what was happening on the pitch.

The club insist that no-one has been ejected because of standing. I suspect that as long as the fans in the BBE don't start to stand en-masse [like that? ], that particular problem wont crop up.

But if they start ejecting people again on the slightest whim of misbehaviour, then big trouble awaits.

That's all I'm saying, the club must tread very carefully and the fans must also behave.

[Glenn]

If Rovers issued the same ultimatum to the clubs of away fans who stand it would prompt them to action. (Or try to get tickets in the home sections, I suppose).

We did for the Villa game (and once more in a masterstoke of Rovers PR genius it was only publicized in the Birmingham press, just think how many fans would currently see the club in a better light) and they ignored it.

Story on icBirmingham

[No Nay Never]

You are going to get nowhere by staying stood up, chanting etc, will only give stewards, police etc good reason to move in and eject/arrest.... whats it matter if the away fans are stood up, rovers fans do it when away, if you want to stand up go and watch Rochdale or someone with terracing...

You pay for a seat so sit in it.

The stewards aren't doing it for a hobby..it's there job.

[blue phil]

Stewards/police should remove all those fans who stand up throughout the match without due regard for those sitting behind them. They should be ejected from the ground and banned from Ewood.

Jim , I understand where you're coming from as I hate standing ,but an attempt against Liverpool to make EVERYONE sit down would take quite a few thousand police and lead to a situation far more dangerous than anything that standing itself could ever do.

The stewards and police have CC TV and can spot anyone who is deliberately out of plain ignorance obscuring someone's view , especially if a complaint has been made . Then they have the right and duty to move in - they even have the evidence to produce if necessary .

For the rest of the time , until they come up with a solution to the visiting fans persistently standing , then they should proceed with extreme caution with regards the home fans. Common sense .

[Kinx]

LET

The Telegraph`s view.....

Would be interesting to hear what the supposed 'public order offences' where as from what I can see these where only brought on by the attitude of the stewards and the way they acted to people standing and not those having ago at the people in the boxes.

As a result the Police pobably had to make an arrests but the question has to be asked whether they where they due to the imcompetence of the Stewards being able to handle the situation?

My seat is directly to the left of the two blokes (I'm pretty sure they are father and son) who got arrested on Saturday so might be able to shed a bit of light on what actually happened on Saturday to lead to them getting kicked out...

As the second/third (not sure which) Middlesbrough goal went in taunts came from the box behind the BBE which caused a lot of anger amongst Rovers fans and caused most people to stand up to see what was going on and shout towards the box. Police then moved up from the bottom of the stand to the stairs to see what was going on. As it settled back down again the older of the two blokes next to me started pointing at the police on the steps and telling them to .... off as it had nothing to do with them, it was between the fans and the stewards.

The Police came up the row 30 and told the older bloke to 'come downstairs for a word before he was thrown out'. After a few complaints he was led downstairs without much fuss but his son charged off after them and from what I saw got hold of one of the coppers which is when it all seemed to kick off. I couldn't really see what happened from here as it was down near the stairs out of my view.

IMO the Police were right to at least have a word with him. If I started swearing at Police in public then I would certainly expect to be at least given a warning, if not arrested.

Also, the whole incident could have been avoided by the son staying where he was and not getting involved. Although I can understand him wanting to plead for his dad it just aggravated it to the point where people started getting arrested.

[ABBEY]

We should be careful on this thread, that we don't confuse the situation.  I don't think we should be discussing the issue of standing/sitting during games. The issue is what was going on in the BBE last Saturday.

The club must realise that at this time, with the fans pretty much up to the teeth with the so called football on display for the last couple of seasons and drifting away in hordes, that even THREATENING to throw the fans out, is counter productive to the extreme.

Hopefully, during the Liverpool game, the stewards will take a much more tolerant view and we wont see a repeat of last weekend.

That's my viewpoint, anyway.

With all respect Den IMO this interlinked and was the basis of the problem -including what was happening on the pitch.

The club insist that no-one has been ejected because of standing. I suspect that as long as the fans in the BBE don't start to stand en-masse [like that? ], that particular problem wont crop up.

But if they start ejecting people again on the slightest whim of misbehaviour, then big trouble awaits.

That's all I'm saying, the club must tread very carefully and the fans must also behave.

someones lying then den because the lad 2 rows in front of me had his season ticket removed for standing.....the club say he got it back but his mates say he hasnt and hes not been on for the last two games...you say earlier its only a thread for last saturday but beg to differ because its been ongoing for three/four games now.

[1864roverite]

anti social behaviour ? well jimbo you must surely have led the most sheltered life I have known !

standing at a footie match is more than acceptable, more often than not at some point in the game almost 97% of supporters will have stood up. furhter to that I would guestimate that at least 30% of those supporters have never been in trouble with the Police, never had any dealings with the Police and are unlikely to ever have any dealings with the Police.

Anti social behaviour is for the morons who consistently go around making peoples lives a misery, committing persistent criminal offences, breaching the peace regularly, appearing before the law courts regularly, nuisance makers and the like.

If you think that standing at ewood is anti social then you must accept that you must go to the upper echelons of the J walker stand out of the way, all us supporters on the lower tiers HAVE to stand on occcasion, for example, when the ball is approaching the net, corners, penalties !!!!, play in the area etc etc. It doesn't make it anti social in any shape or form.

Now someone of you intelligence and experience should clearly understand that one.

My view is this. I am not happy at all with the explanations provided in the press, its a cop out big style. How can any other club take responsibility for their own fans within another clubs stadium ?

that would mean that the likes of Southampton shouild bring their own stewards, their own supervisors, their own Police and the like.

BRFC has the sole responsibility of how the crowd inside Ewood are controlled. They have the power to refuse tickets to fans who abuse the rules inside footie grounds.

as for LAW ? well its definately not in the statutes that stadning within a soccer stadium is against the law. It is simply a rule that a club is supposed to enforce under the safety regulations,conditions of license and the guidelines set by local authorities. if Rovers cannot supervise away fans, be it 100 or 8000 then they should NOT sell any bloody tickets ! Its as plain and simple as that.

Rovers have copped out because they know that when lfc,manure,newcastle and city bring a few thousand its a bit of dosh in the pockets. Now on the other hand if they did do a little bit more for their own supporters, were not so pedantic,so critical,so futile etc they may just realise that there is and are opportunities to attract a bigger fan base to Ewood.

Its pretty simple really. treat you own like they are your own. Its little things like that that will go a long way to addressing some fo the problems wer have at the club

[blue phil]

If you think that standing at ewood is anti social then you must accept that you must go to the upper echelons of the J walker stand out of the way

We'll make you most welcome , Jim.....

[den]

What I said Abbey, was that we shouldn't get confused between the events of last Saturday and the general standing/sitting argument. Of course you can discuss whatever you want on here. As for the lad 2 rows in front, I take your word about that.

At the end of the day, what is the clubs position on this? It is a very difficult one.

Fact: the club must ensure that the home fans sit down. If they don't do that, the authorities can close down the stand. Does anyone in the BBE want that, because any concerted attempt to stand up continuously during games could result in this.

What does the club do about away fans standing continuously? Well, they could wade into 8000 scousers on Saturday week. Or, they could do as required by the authorities and report the situation. Which is the sensible solution? If it was me, I would take the second option.

I think, after taking most of this thread into account, that rovers are taking the correct decisions. However what I've said all along, is that they must do everything in their power, to approach the people in the BBE, with a lot more respect. Persuasion, not provocation. I wouldn't want to see anything like the events last Saturday re-occur. The club must reconsider their approach.

Any stand up protests on the next home game will only make the clubs position even more difficult.

[jim mk2]

.

Anti social behaviour is for the morons who consistently go around making peoples lives a misery

that would mean that the likes of Southampton shouild bring their own stewards, their own supervisors, their own Police and the like.

As far as I am concerned, those who stand up and refuse to sit down are making my life and that of others a misery by spoiling my enjoyment of a football match. That makes it anti-social behaviour in my book.

Your suggestion that away clubs should supply their own stewards to supervise their fans is an excellent one and may be the answer to the problem.

[stuwilky]

Can I just clear something up.

There is no law in force that prohibits standing at a football ground.

The Football Spectators Act 1989, which was rushed through Parliament after the tragedy at Hillsborough, makes reference to the Secretary of State having the power to require the Licensing Authority to insist on seating.

As we know this has been included in license requirements for some time, albeit selectively in the top two divisions.

The other main inclusion in the above act is the requirement of every person who wishes to attend a football game in England to be a member of a national membership scheme.

Needless to say the second farcical idea was thrown out.

The biggest issue for me, and the reason I am going to speak to club about it, is the wmanner in which Blackburn Rovers staff choose to attempt to enforce the legislation. I firmly believe their current approach is actually causing more problems and causing more danger (if you beleive that standing is dangerous) than it is resolving.

[jim mk2]

Can I just clear something up.

There is no law in force that prohibits standing at a football ground.

Is that correct ?

Trafford Borough Council have threatened to close Old Trafford unless ManU sort out their standing problem.

[stuwilky]

Can I just clear something up.

There is no law in force that prohibits standing at a football ground.

Is that correct ?

Trafford Borough Council have threatened to close Old Trafford unless ManU sort out their standing problem.

For your benefit Jim

http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/ac..._en_2.htm#mdiv3

I direct you to section 11 para 1. specifically.

11.—(1) The Secretary of State may, by order, direct the licensing authority to include in any licence to admit spectators to any specified premises a condition imposing requirements as respects the seating of spectators at designated football matches at the premises; and it shall be the duty of the authority to comply with the direction.

Therefore it would not require a change in legislation to allow standing. Just for information.

[Tris]

What worries me is that the standing issue is being blown out of all proportion in the context of the two arrests in the Blackburn End, which - according to the statement from Tom Finn and the eyewitness account on this thread from Kinx - had nothing to do with standing.

It seems to me that many people are looking for a cause and / or a target. Souness has gone, Hughes is (for now) untouchable, suddenly an opportunity to vent some anger has presented itself and the bandwagon is gathering momentum.

In the run up to the Liverpool game this is the last thing we need. Scousers standing everywhere, an extra two hours in the pub, probably extra police / stewards on the BBE as a precaution.

Judging by some contributions to this thread, some fans aren't even bothering to read the posts or club statements which put the sensible viewpoint. Multiply that attitude into the entire lower tier of the BBE and the potential for big trouble is starkly obvious.

Standing is clearly an issue which affects all clubs, and from what we've been able to read on this thread (if you've bothered to click the links) it's an issue which is being discussed by clubs, governing bodies and there is even a (perhaps embryonic) strategy to look at it.

It's just our luck that a combination of a late live Sky game, a simmering discontent in the BBE, a regrettable incident last Saturday, crap football and results and the lack of a natural target for frustration could all lead to the standing issue being propelled right into the media spotlight live at Ewood Park.

[Brownie]

Am I the only one not to be interested in this issue/topic one iota ?

All I'm interested in is the welfare of the side and to a lesser extent the club's finances.

Arguments about reducing tickets for certain matches, stewarding, away fans in boxes winding fans up, standing up-sitting down bores the backside off me.

Can't believe this topic is being discussed with such passion whilst our side languish in the relegation places.

Like Tris says, Souness has gone so lets vent our frustration at police and/or stewards.

For God's sake, will this tedious mindnumbingly boring issue be dropped ?

Let's talk about the only reason we are there in the first place, what happens on the pitch.

[John]

Brownie- I am completely the same!

I am thinking more about our distressing league position, possible transfer targets, and who might be playing for us on Saturday.

This topic would probably mean more to me if we were comfortable mid-table and there was nothing else really going on.

Some people are showing so much passion about this topic I feel it's the only thing on their minds all day full stop- not criticising you but calm down a bit.

Edited October 20, 2004 by John