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Stuart

Raya joins Brentford

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Tbf for £3m Brentford knew they weren't signing the finished article - far from it. Raya is a great reflex keeper who has never been comfortable coming out to claim the ball from crosses. Looks like he still has that weakness although without watching Brentford over the course of the season I can't say whether he's improved from his time here or not. 

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53 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I think he saves his teams more than he costs them . If this is still the case when he is peaking as a keeper at say 29 fair enough but he won’t be 

Though if he could catch (or punch) then Brentford would be in the automatic promotion places tonight - with Leeds down in 4th and 'Sky in meltdown'.

He could hardly have made a more crucial error.

Edited by Husky

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9 hours ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I think he saves his teams more than he costs them . If this is still the case when he is peaking as a keeper at say 29 fair enough but he won’t be 

In the years I've seen him play he hasn't improved much at all. He IS a great shot stopper, but he's always had that in his locker.

However his general command of the box has not improved, hence he will never be an elite goalkeeper, Brentford is about his level.

You could try and blame our coaching staff,which does hold some weight. But he's had what 6 months with Brentfords amazing setup yet they've not ironed his weaknesses out.

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4 hours ago, Ossydave said:

In the years I've seen him play he hasn't improved much at all. He IS a great shot stopper, but he's always had that in his locker.

However his general command of the box has not improved, hence he will never be an elite goalkeeper, Brentford is about his level.

You could try and blame our coaching staff,which does hold some weight. But he's had what 6 months with Brentfords amazing setup yet they've not ironed his weaknesses out.

I’d allow a young goalie a little longer to prove himself . He has a good chance unlike here with our no mark of a goalie coach 

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24 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I’d allow a young goalie a little longer to prove himself . He has a good chance unlike here with our no mark of a goalie coach 

Of course, supporters like yourself will always give other clubs the benefit of the doubt. Even when the evidence contradicts it. Raya must have surpassed Walton for clangers this season at this stage. 

I suppose it's probably Mowbrays fault. 

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Of course, supporters like yourself will always give other clubs the benefit of the doubt. Even when the evidence contradicts it. Raya must have surpassed Walton for clangers this season at this stage. 

I suppose it's probably Mowbrays fault. 

It’s not more complicated than Brentford having a proper keeper coach that makes he think he has a better chance of improvement 

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It gives me no pleasure by the way to identify how well another club is run  coached and financed , my comments are driven by envy . If Walton improves it won’t be down to coaching 

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6 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

It’s not more complicated than Brentford having a proper keeper coach that makes he think he has a better chance of improvement 

But he doesn't seem to be showing this improvement . The website whoscored.com gives Walton a rating of 6.69 whereas Raya is down on 6.59.

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13 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

It’s not more complicated than Brentford having a proper keeper coach that makes he think he has a better chance of improvement 

They replaced their keeper coach at Xmas. 

https://www.brentfordfc.com/news/2019/december/goalkeeper-coach-update-20191224/ 

How do you know so much about the new coach?

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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3 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

It gives me no pleasure by the way to identify how well another club is run  coached and financed , my comments are driven by envy . If Walton improves it won’t be down to coaching 

Of course not , if he got worse it would be though , wouldn't it, eh :)  

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1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

But he doesn't seem to be showing this improvement . The website whoscored.com gives Walton a rating of 6.69 whereas Raya is down on 6.59.

No perhaps not but when you look at the way they do things overall he has a better chance ... he may however slip through the net no pun intended 

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After almost a season here how do people feel about Christian Walton? Would you sign him permanently or not? 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, roverstdt said:

After almost a season here how do people feel about Christian Walton? Would you sign him permanently or not? 

 

 

I think we've got to give him until the end of the season before judging him. Bit of a shaky start but he's started to look the real deal more recently. Some big saves and he's quite composed even under the heavy press when we're trying to play it out from the back. 

I couldn't say either way at the moment. 

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4 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

So Rayas stats were how far ahead of Walton? They were almost exactly the same and Walton isn’t worth £10m! As I pointed out it is my opinion and if it’s different to yours so be it.

Raya was second in the league on the percentage of saves made against the shots on his goal. Good defense in front of your goalie or not, I would say that is one of the most important stats. 

We all know Raya's flaws (though they are now reducing at another club) and nobody here is saying he was perfect. I would say he still has a way to go to be a competent PL keeper but obviously Arsenal thinks he has what it takes to develop into one. Within what? two seasons as a senior keeper between the sticks in the Championship and he has developed into a keeper one of the top 6 want as backup and to develop. 

The crux of the matter is that he was a young keeper we had developed that was full of potential. We sold him on for a pittance. Another club steps in and thinks that pittance is a bargain and one season later are receiving bids of at least 3 times that amount. 

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I never felt totally comfortable with Raya, all keepers make mistakes and behind a dreadful defence he made his fair share in that opening season. He improved when I watched him last season, yes the defence is better but also far less error prone and just looks more confident. Dont get any pleasure out of a move to Arsenal potentially not happening, I have no reason to wish any ill upon him. There was no reason for Mowbray to ever replace him with Leutwiler, that was bizarre.

That being said, the decision to sell Raya for cheap, loan Walton and buy Gallagher cannot really be defended.

Lets hope Kaminski is an upgrade, at the moment we are none the wiser really. Most of the shots he has faced have gone in, with only Fraser's one that I think he should have done better, and only one particularly meaningful save, the very good one at Bournemouth. Distribution seems decent and quick too, looks shaky at crosses. Hopefully he will get a second successive clean sheet.

If Kaminski is weak from crosses, as Raya was, one thing that may help him that Raya was often left without (think back to Rotherham away with Mulgrew and Rodwell at CB) is Lenihan AND Ayala hopefully both giving him more protection. 

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17 hours ago, tomphil said:

I was in the keep camp but replace him as number 1 with an experienced keeper or someone with similar potential. That way we could see if he developed and he had better standards to train with and fight it out for number one.  He never had that here he just wasted time sat behind Steele then straight replaced him to learn on the job. Luckily for him that was in league 1 i think he'd have sank Jake Keane style thrown straight in the Championship then with no real back up.

Of course all that is easier said than done but if the clock could be wound right back i think it could have been handled a whole lot better. 

For now though if we got another million quid on top of the 3 and they've got someone capable finally in the sticks then it's best to draw a line under it.

That is an accurate statement for my feelings in reality.  One could clearly see potential, you just can not teach cat like reflexes.  That and get him a GOOD GOALKEEPING COACH.  Given Walton's almost exact style of staying on the line more often than not I wonder if it was not just purely down to (crap) coaching at Rovers.  One could clearly see on Raya's return he was willing to come out, something he seldom did when playing here.

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On 22/09/2020 at 14:47, Bohinen 22 said:

Walton is one of the worst keepers to wear the Rovers shirt. Would say that only maybe Fettis has been worse in my time supporting Rovers. I’d say even that clown Steele was better.

John Butcher.

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On 22/09/2020 at 18:19, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Maybe a separate post to discuss Raya / Walton specifically 

We probably have one but it is littered with transfer talk.  I know I know Iam guilty of off topic stuff too.. Sorry, I will stop.

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22 hours ago, philipl said:

100% with you.

Raya today is vastly worse than at least 50% of the keepers in the PL but that is a moot point.

Raya last season was vastly better than Walton and that certainly cost us numerous points. We also wasted the money we got from him making it an even more painful piece of business .

Brentford are a trading club and they didn't want to trade Raya below their valuation is also as significant as Arsenal baulking at the price.

Makes somebody buying Josh King even pressing for Rovers.

Debatable, looks to me like keeping in general has gone down hill.  Goalies seem to lack fundamentals of positioning, actually catching the ball.  They almost always palm it was a time keepers would hold on to shots.

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