I've never followed Scottish football, it always seemed so half arsed. Back in the 80s and 90s it always seemed like the equivalent of our none league, but then you'd have the behemoth Glasgow teams coming to town in tiny stadiums with small crowds. Then the other team would go to Ibrox and these, pretty much none league players would end up playing in front of a full stadium. I'm probably massively discrediting a large amount of people there, but that's how it seemed at the time. Going off on a bit of a tangent, I remember being fascinated with Heart of Midlothian when I was a kid, just because I saw them in a Panini album and it sounded like a weird name for a football team. A bit like Huddersfield's Towns logo with a Yorkshire Terrier on it that looked straight out of Pigeon Street. Edit: I love the fact that in a week or two's time, someone will visit this thread and see a thumbnail of a cartoon Yorkie in the posted images block on the right, and wonder what the hell that's got to do with John Dahl Tomasson.

Yes I was talking about the wrong Dundee, because of course there is Dundee, and Dundee United. I can only assume the Dundee that Bowyer is managing isn't quite as united as the other one. Even the clubs involved in Scottish football are confusing. I've always found the whole phase 1 and phase 2 thing in the Scottish Premiership so bizarre.

It was nothing to do with not being good enough, it was to do with who his agent was and possibly how much he was asking for.

Never underestimate Tony Mowbray's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Ignore I'm getting the two Dundee clubs mixed up.

He was cup tied wasn't he? And Hedges and co did so well they kept their places.

We had a rookie manager. And he's since been sacked by Bradford and Salford City so I think it's safe to say he was never any good in the first place. He was just blessed with some good players. I'll always be annoyed at Bowyer for throwing the game against Burnley when we were on top.

Can it not be both? Notably, Brereton was asleep for the Coventry goal.

I'm not sure why he'd be out of a job within 12 months considering it's commonly accepted that if we had a couple of strikers we'd be at least in the play offs. At a club with better resources, and less besuited dickheads, he'd have a promotion on his CV.

Let us not forget that Coventry's keeper had to use basketball and NFL moves to get the ball in the net. I'm surprised he didn't take out a fecking baseball bat to get a final touch on it. I've seen them disallowed for barging the keeper alone. Very unlucky recently with decisions.

We have and even if we manage to win I can't see results going our way. I've watched Millwall a few times recently. They didn't look good and very much a Jekyll and Hyde team, so there's a chance. But I think WBA will beat Swansea and Sunderland will beat Preston. We should hope for the new season that Tomasson stays on for at least another season, Broughton can redeem himself with some quality signings, and Waggott and co decide against selling any of our decent players. If not the alternative could be pretty horrific and lead to a steep decline. If we begin next season with a bottom of the barrel managerial appointment, we sell the likes of Wharton, and Gallagher is still our main striker, we're in trouble.

Haha, it is with our lot! You must be able to see that these players have also struggled to find their scoring boots elsewhere, their records are easily accessible. With the obvious exception of Dack and Brereton but as someone creatively dubbed them the other day, more like "the corpses of Dack and Brereton". I remember looking up what the Aberdeen fans were saying about Hedges before we signed him. Mr Inconsistent who misses sitters. Mowbray excelled at discovering those types of forwards.

I'd say earlier, we were just getting away with it.

It is very weird, especially when it's happened in so many games recently. For example the Hedges "chip" wouldn't have happened at any of the other clubs above us, the forwards they have would have put it away.

You need goals Jim, and on the pitch (money aside) it's the main thing that separates us from Burnley, Luton, Coventry, Boro, Millwall and Sheffield Utd. And besides the goals, having a goal threat doesn't allow the opposition to come at you as much. I don't think I've seen one game this season where the opposition hasn't over committed. Without wanting to sound like Gary Bowyer, pretty much everyone has had a "right good go" at us. I've watched Sheffield, Burnley, Luton, Boro when they've been on TV and seen them face far cagier opposition afraid to commit players. Lesser teams know they can do it with us because our expected goals is so low. Not replacing the likes of Travis and Gallagher in Jan has really hurt us.

If it was that simple then teams wouldn't spend stupid amounts of money on better players. There's good players and bad players and there's not much coaches can do if a player is particularly poor, or won't listen, that's why they get sold on and end up as a journeyman in the lower leagues. Sure good coaching may yield improvements but I've seen the likes of Gallagher & Dolan under two different managers and their play is exactly the same, they make the same mistakes. I can only assume that it's a player issue. Hedges was well known as inconsistent well before he arrived here. Brereton can't be arsed. Leonard is only 19. Before Gallagher was injured he was strolling into the box as players were on the wing, and he's been doing it since he's been here - that's on the player. I think we're expecting too much from the squad.

I just don't think starting Thomas, Dack and Leonard wouldn't have made much of a difference because we've struggled to score all season with different personnel. Though I agree on dropping Brereton as he's the real world equivalent of playing Fifa with lag at the moment.

You can be more organised when you've got two behemoths up front to rely upon. Jesus Christ would struggle to organise a team with the likes of Gallagher, Dolan and Brereton. One who runs around like he's had a head injury, one who's forgotten that we're still paying his wages and another who thinks he can run through defenders and forgets he's allowed to pass. Then there's Hedges who is the most frustratingly inconsistent player, yet capable of occasional brilliance, we've had for a while - this was also what Hibs fans thought of him btw. And finally there's Travis who in the last few games has been awful, a liability on occasion with terrible passes back to the defence/keeper without looking, causing mayhem. Just what you need from your captain. A great way to put your fellow players under pressure and on edge, and give the opposition a boost. So good luck to the next guy taking over, he's going to have to be really special to get a tune out of the likes of that lot next season. I trust we'll appoint an out of work gem. Besides all that, no matter what any of you say we haven't been playing terrible lately and given a goalscorer or two we'd have made the play offs or better. I watched the match last night and didn't think Luton were that great tbh, just organised at the back, but overall they conceded possession more than we did. It was the same with Coventry, Preston and dare I say it Burnley. We'd have beaten all of them if recruitment had put a shift in even with the tippy tappy stuff.

Luton have been steadily progressing for years and crucially they kept hold of their top goalscorer, then added Morris who has been excellent for them, and was a decent striker for Barnsley. I think they signed him for something like £1.8m. Rowett has been with Millwall for a few years. They've also got two good goalscorers, and one of them was signed last Summer. Both clubs invested in goals last Summer and we didn't so it's no surprise both are above us. I'd hazard a guess that both clubs have a competent CEO and recruitment teams. Edit: looking up how much Millwall paid for Flemming. £1.7m. So Millwall spent that and Luton paid not much more. I wonder how much we wasted on the pointless loans of Mola, Hirst and the legal fees for O'Brien. And besides that, if we'd sold Brereton we could have easily signed players like this the above, that would have made a difference.

My point is that some would because we still wouldn't score goals, as we've already seen.

And if you were the manager people would now be giving you dogs abuse lamenting how Dack is a shadow of his former self, Leonard isn't ready and Thomas is shit (not my words by the way) and we've dropped our top scorer. I remember a time when it was easy to pick out who the first team was on a match day. Now it's such a low bar that there's no correct set of forwards or midfielders, it's always a mish mash. Dolan wouldn't be anywhere near a centre forward role if the club was run properly.

I just mean that people have short memories and I strongly believe post-Tomasson it will be a disaster. At the moment there's something to build on, but if we start afresh we're back to square one, and I have no faith that we can bring in better than Tomasson. There's every reason to believe it will be a far worse appointment than either Tomasson or Mowbray. Anyone reminiscing about Mowbray deserves it as he's still very much part of the current problem of us having a poor goal threat (though Waggott and Gregg have had ample opportunity to fix that). Sunderland will feel the pain when he establishes his own team with some bizarre ideology based on which world football matches he consumed that Summer.

The people on match day who are vocal about Tomasson. The ones you mentioned.

What do you change them to though? There's no correct pick for first team with that squad, there's no correct sub. Our forward options have been poor for more than this season, they did exactly the same last season. And I'll be glad to see the back of Brereton. Even if we did manage to get into the play offs we'll be relying on him to perform. He didn't even look match fit yesterday. I've seen opposition teams have players on the bench who can change a game. We have none of that.

They'll get flak when those same fans come to their senses. It'll be a disaster bringing in a bottom of the barrel manager with this squad and no f*cks given from the top to make it any better, just as it was in 2016.