JHRover

Where have I said that our academy isn't a success? It clearly is a success with the number of players in our first team. There's a difference however between the academy being successful and default relying on it all the time when better options are available externally. Keeping Category 1 is not a miracle. A third of Championship clubs have it and as you say, given our productivity it would be senseless to get rid of it. Its more than covered itself in the last decade with Jones, Hanley, Lenihan, Travis etc. Sunderland, Wolves, Leicester and Norwich all retained Category A status in that division without billionaire backers. If you aren't going to secure these players down to long term deals then you lose millions in fees and never get anywhere. Its madness but further evidence of the approach these owners have. If they had an ounce of interest they'd have instructed staff to issued new deals to these players. Instead it seems Mowbray is trying to persuade them to do it. It's like a parallel universe. I notice last week Mowbray said contract extensions may have to be paid for from his transfer kitty. Ludicrous. Yet if I were betting now I'd put money on neither happening before January.

And that's good enough or acceptable?

I'm not giving them stick for not doing it. Just pointing out that there are ways and means for those owners determined enough to get where they want to be. Nothing ever happens here other than this 'developing' players routine (which we risk losing for nothing due to the contract situation). It's a bit like the Wolves one - their owners came in with a determination and a plan of how to do it and rolled with it. It involved all sorts of shenanigans with the Portuguese players and Jorge Mendes. Might not be what the nice folk want to see with an agent running the show but now Wolves are changed beyond recognition for the better whilst we kick around skint in the Championship. It worked for them and they beat FFP.

No, but there would be nothing stopping the owners doing that for future windows if they wanted. They could have done it last year or 3 years ago had they been determined to beat FFP. Of course they won't do it, because they don't have the interest, desire or wherewithal to do anything about it. Much easier just to trot out the 'woe is us' routine every time a window comes around. Plenty of ways to skin the FFP cat, you can either tackle it head on - see QPR, Bournemouth, Leicester, Derby, Forest, Watford - or you can get left behind and spend the rest of your days whinging about it - see Waggott and Rovers.

Good for Forest. Bad for us. That's what owners and clubs determined to beat the system do - find clever ways of getting round the rules to bring good players in despite FFP. Do I like it? No Should it be banned? Yes Is it in breach of any rules? No, and if it gets them where they want to be they'll be happy. We'll just sit on the sidelines shrieking about how unfair life is and how much of a struggle it is. Derby were another lot with their dodgy Rooney deal. Got away with it.

So we have a lower matchday revenue than Preston, Millwall, Reading - something seriously wrong down at Ewood if that is correct. Mismanagement of the highest order. Why is it pretty good being ahead of Preston and Sheffield United? As a club we are far ahead of Preston in stature and size and probably about the same as Sheffield United. Either way I'd like to know why, what, how, when outfits like Wycombe, Reading, Luton, Brentford, QPR, Millwall, Preston, Rotherham, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Middlesbrough got themselves into a higher bracket than us on revenues, attendances etc.

I agree with much of what you say and the general point of how having no crowds in grounds could actually help us. I disagree that we are 'far less affected financially by having no crowds than almost every other club in the Championship'. Obviously lost income from 10,000 fans at Ewood is going to be less than that at Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Forest or Norwich with their 20,000+ a week crowds. But elsewhere I can't see that much difference. Waggott will be probably more concerned by the losses of Leeds and Aston Villa from the division and not being able to give them a third of Ewood. "Only a few clubs have smaller crowds but their commercial income and matchday prices are as high or higher than Rovers" - I don't think that is correct. I look at clubs like Luton, Wycombe, Brentford, QPR, Millwall, Reading, Swansea, Preston, Rotherham, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Middlesbrough and I ask myself what sort of numbers those clubs would normally get through the turnstiles. I don't believe there a single reason why Rovers should be getting less through the gates than any of those clubs, or why our commercial income should be less. None of those have the ability to hand over unlimited away tickets or have the excellent facilities that Ewood possesses. If any of those clubs are raking in more, despite grossly inferior statures as clubs, far less seasons of Premier League history to fall back on and far inferior facilities then that is more a damning indictment on those running Rovers than a sign of where we are as a club. "Blackburn is a seriously ecomonically disadvantaged area" - I'm not sure if it is disadvantaged or if so why in comparison to places like Middlesbrough, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Preston, Stoke, South Wales. But even if it is, and I've made this point a million times before, Blackburn Rovers as a club does not correspond with the boundaries of Blackburn. We have South Ribble, Ribble Valley, Rossendale, Hyndburn and wider Lancashire all on the doorstep and I'd go as far and suggest a majority of regular home fans live in those areas rather than Blackburn itself. In some respects those areas are absolutely booming at the moment and some are quite affluent.

In a decade of ownership they've spent nothing on improving Ewood or Brockhall beyond essential maintenance that they can’t dodge on. It shows, even just watching on Quest. the most interest they've shown was when they stuck the Clayton and Douglas murals up. Makes Waggott's talk about a new Riverside pie in the sky stuff.

If this is the way they treat and speak to fans whilst in Blackburn and trying to get money out of them you can only begin to imagine the way they think and speak about the fans over in the Pune Ivory Towers when trying to impress the owners. Waggott having to justify his salary will presumably have sold himself to them on the basis he is going to make those fans pay what they should and reduce the burden on Venkys. The owners won't have the foggiest but probably impressed by his spiel as so many supporters seem to be, as some were with Senior and Shebby once upon a time. We will only see the long term impact of such policies down the line when Waggott's enjoying his retirement a long way away from Blackburn and the owners are still tucked away in India and those left are rattling around Ewood.

Waggott's £300,000 per year expertise in selling season tickets: 1) Leave it as late as possible to begin selling, often months behind rival clubs 2) Increase prices in all areas 3) Zero consultation with people who actually buy tickets 4) Come up with some pointless 'strapline' this year being 'We are Together' to try and project an image that we're all in the same boat whilst hard up low income fans pay his exorbitant salary. 5) Embark upon a campaign of guilt tripping and emotional blackmail and imply that people considering not renewing are harming the club and are to blame for any hardship that comes along in future 6) Marketing efforts go as far as plonking Mowbray and various players infront of a camera and tell us how fantastic the supporters are and how much they are needed 7) Deliver a reduction in sales numbers year on year

I'm not sure what the last 3 years and what Mowbray has spent money on has to do with the situation we are in today. The reality of our current situation is that only a matter of weeks ago he said he wanted another 6 players. Since then we've signed 1. We are therefore 5 short of what he wanted. We've dealt with CB by signing Ayala (I've said several times that he is a good addition that I am very pleased with, although 1 good CB doesn't compensate for not addressing the other positions) and we've brought Williams back into the fold (although I'm concerned about what is going on there with the manager recently making public comments that he didn't think he had a future here and only this week Williams himself throwing doubt on his future). We still haven't signed the back up GK, LB, CM or RB that were all sought. We've also lost Travis to long term injury which increases the need for a CM. We are being prepped for only loans. Virtually everything that has come from the Telegraph, Mowbray and Radio Lancashire has been about how it is likely to be the loan market from here. Only last weekend Andy Bayes was saying it was looking like loan additions only from here. This is in complete contrast to the bullish confident talk after we signed Ayala where he was meant to be the first of several and we had players ready to sign and talked about dominoes falling from then on. Two and a half weeks on and everything has gone quiet. You talk about loans being the 'correct' way to work this summer. I don't know how you can claim that. To begin with the cost effectiveness of loans depends upon wages involved and loan fees. If rumours are to be believed Tosin last year cost a small fortune to borrow for a season. So a repeat of that, whilst a good player, would not be cost effective for the club. If we cough up a small transfer fee for a hidden gem or diamond and put him on a multi season contract and he performs well then we would have a cash asset on the books, therefore protecting the club medium term and ensuring we get cash in when he leaves. We've a small squad and half of it is out of contract in the summer. Padding it out with loans from here isn't going to address anything. All it will do is create another issue to resolve next summer when we are replacing players. There simply has to be more to our recruitment than bringing players in for the season because it avoids having to commit to a contract. Turning to the claim that recent developments will have impacted on our ability to do business I'm afraid that simply doesn't stack up. It is another example of grasping any external excuse available to explain our transfer market failings - file alongside FFP, no European scouts etc. To begin with I cannot comprehend why the owners would sanction a budget for signings and wages that was contingent upon having some fans in the ground in October. Why? Because October was always the 'best case' scenario. Anyone following case numbers and the news would have put money on a second wave or increase in cases at some point over the winter. Even if fans had been allowed back into grounds the revenue streams from limited capacity attendances with no away fans would have been a drop in the ocean compared to the costs involved in recruiting half a dozen players on average wages of pushing £10,000 per week. We've also seen with the manager's contract awards to Smallwood etc in the summer - where half a dozen players were given extra time to their contracts because it was the right thing to do - that cash for players and their wages isn't directly linked to fans through the turnstiles. If it was then those deals wouldn't have been done.

That won't happen. They say this every transfer window. The money doesn't materialise. Then it will be all about it being a tough time to do business and better waiting until the summer

If you had said on here back in the summer of 2018, 2019 or even the start of summer 2020 that we would be in October 2020 and still relying on Amari Bell as our only senior LB and Derrick Williams as CB you'd have been laughed at. Yet here we are. No surprises to see the shift from some people from a position of we need a LB and are going to sign one (the position of all summer) to now preparing for the inevitable disappointment on that front which will be dressed up with 'Bell had a good game against Derby so we can make do' We've already been prepped to expect nothing but loans from here and clearly we are relying on things falling into place on that front including a suitable candidate becoming available and the loaning club striking a mutually beneficial deal that we are willing and able to pay, all within a matter of a few days before the window shuts. Unlikely the way our recruitment department operates. We'd be better off preparing for the January window given the time it takes to get deals sorted.

I think the problem is that whilst the 12 month option is a safety net for the club, it shouldn't really be used unless absolutely necessary. Before then we should be proactively dealing with a new long term deal. There's little indication that we are doing this, not just for Dack but all the players. Of course times are hard and uncertain but the club has to look at the bigger picture. These players could be worth millions and dwarf whatever season ticket income we get. Insanity to let them go for nothing.

Yep. All correct. Sadly this never ending conveyor belt seems to be the way they like to run things and is what makes talk of growing and building fantasy talk. Unless you are going to be proactive and secure prized assets down long term then you will just have a massive rebuild every 2-3 years and miss out on fortunes in transfer fees Look at Brentford - recently gave Ollie Watkins a 5 year deal as reward for his performances and to protect their asset. Aston Villa come sniffing and have to cough up £30 million for him because Brentford hold all the cards with the long-term contract in their favour. We don't seem to operate like that and it is staggering and worrying that assets like Nyambe, JRC and Dack are all out of contract in 8 months. If nothing else we need them under contact for FFP purposes.

What's stopping them?

Bolton won't be paying any of those people back. At worst they will defer until next season, an option Preston are now offering their fans, but one which Waggott won't do here. Their fans have no right to refunds so there will be no grovelling or begging. They haven't acted dishonestly any way shape or form. Their package Is exactly the same as ours- asking fans to pay up but accepting they can't guarantee entry and offering I Follow instead. Their 8000 have signed up to more or less exactly the same as our 2100. Potential admission at an unspecified point in future and I Follow access until that stage. What have Bolton done that isn't honourable or clear? Its the same as at Rovers. And I certainly don't think Waggott's lies (in May saying that prices would be reduced to compensate for missed games and in September putting prices up by at least £50 everywhere in the ground) represents honesty or transparency. 8000 sales vs 2100 is irrelevant? Try telling that to Waggott right now, I'm sure he'd kill for Bolton's numbers of cash in the tills. It will be no easier to get a refund from Rovers than Bolton. The difference is that they moved quickly and got them on sale early doors with months of sales to get the numbers up. We waited until mid September and put a deadline in place of 2nd October. Just over 2 weeks to complete all our sales, which coincided with further government restrictions as case numbers rocketed. A very narrow window of opportunity just when things go backwards again. Not good. You are of course correct that I spent all March, April, May, June, July and August calling for communication and season tickets to be put on sale. I had my £400 sat waiting to be paid to the club as I do every summer. Sadly, despite waiting for 6 months and repeatedly asking for clarity we got nothing. Not a peep. Then once pre season started it was Waggott saying he wouldn't put them on sale until he knew when and how many fans were allowed into Ewood. After hearing this I decided to spend my.£400 on a holiday to Greece instead. I can't wait forever. Whilst on holiday, completely out of the blue without any warning, the club announced they were on sale, despite still not being able to guarantee anything yet all of a sudden wanted everyone's money. Inexplicably they put a deadline of 2nd October for sales, which isn't convenient for me having spent my money on something else. Having waited for 6 months and told my money wasn't wanted then expecting me to come running with it at short notice is cheeky to say the least. I also want to be informed why my 25 years of uninterrupted season tickets, 1875 membership and away day tickets count for nothing for the pilot fixtures and yet someone who has never been to Ewood before can pay £600 for the diamond club and have priority over me. When the club explain that one to me I might reconsider. Until then I'm wondering why I've bothered all those years.

And Bolton shifted 8000 for the 4th division. You're putting your head in the sand. Of course individuals have difficulties. But our sales have plummeted by two thirds on last season. I haven't renewed yet and don't think I will. Not because I can't or due to Covid 19. But because I can't tolerate the way the club has behaved and won't sign up to sit behind a Diamond Club member in priority.

A failure under any description of the word. And only a couple of days remaining before the end of a bizarre sales window of just over 2 weeks.

Mowbray clearly has a different opinion. Do you think he is wrong? Travis being back by January isn't a good thing, it is a problem. By January the season will be half way gone and we will know if we are able to be at the right end or not. That's on a serious injury that still hasn't been operated on yet. Id like to see a loan addition to replace Travis, a large void in the side.

Mowbray wanted another midfielder. He wanted another GK (gone quiet), 2 x CB, LB, CM and RB - in that order of priority. Since then we've added Ayala and seemingly given up on trying to sell Williams so that overcomes the CB situation. Since then we've also lost Trav until next year with ligament damage and who knows what is going on with Evans who was training last week yet still doesn't seem to be ready for action. So I'd say whatever reasons Mowbray had have since become more urgent. Rothwell and Johnson have done very well of late but this is a squad game. You dont allow a transfer window to Pass by off the back of two good performances. Injuries, suspensions, losses of form, all just around the corner. We need to be prepared.

If the owners or their advisors have watched the first 3 games, two thrashings and an unfortunate defeat against one of the favourites, they would be finding whatever funds Mowbray wants to fill in gaps in the squad. This may be their best chance at promotion in an altogether weak division, especially when 3 of the big spenders and so called big clubs are having nightmares down at the bottom end. No doubt that at least one side going up won't be expected to, that could be us but it requires conviction and a gamble. Would be a shame if we fall short through not adding the depth we need and then this team gets broken up next summer.

Fantastic performance. Some outstanding displays in there today. Thought Kaminski was faultless in his job and some great distribution. Brereton excellent, shame he didn't get a goal. Good signs with Dack, Evans, Gallagher and Ayala to come in. Still need a LB and i worry about depth and the number of injuries we are picking up. JRC the latest, seems to be happening too often.

When the budget was set, some time after the end of the season in late July or early August, we hadn't had any income or season ticket sales. Waggott didn't begin selling them until mid September seemingly with a deadline of early October and the transfer window closes a week after that I don't think ticket sales makes much, if any difference to the transfer kitty, going off the above dates.

Not just 4 games though. They were terrible at the end of last season. They've lost about 6 on the bounce and only won about 4 in 20. He'll be gone in no time with their owners.