Is that possible?

I would disagree that he played excellently, I thought he look a bit lost.

Buckley tends to look well off it whenever he plays aside from when he has come on v 10 men in games we have already been in comfortable leads. Even if Downing could play an hour and then we could make a decision from there, if we are losing or drawing we could bring on Holtby or if we were winning we could add a second defensive player. Ayala did look very rusty and the Wharton recall seems fair to me, although I suppose Ayala could argue that the only way the rust will go is if he plays regularly.

The balance of that midfield is not right again. It should be Trybull OR Johnson. I just hope that Johnson is further forward but I suspect that Trybull will be out of position again, surely Downing was a better choice? Also hope that Gallagher is left and Elliott is right. Glad to see Douglas back and interesting change at CB. With Ayala, part of me does think that his calibre suggests that he is one of our best 2 centre backs, then again Wharton's recent performances were good so I can understand him coming back in.

To be fair, the reason that both were lauded is because both have track records with repeated success at this level. Warnock is doing a good job, he took over as a firefighting job last season to keep them up and having spent very little and in a short term span, he has got them on the same points as us. Hughton has started surprisingly slowly at Forest but his track record means that it would be a surprise if it continued long term.

Still cant get my head around anyone essentially preparing themselves for a defeat, if we are genuinely a top 6 contender there is no needn We should be going today with an attitude whereby we can make up some real ground and beat a direct rival. If we have an inferiority complex towards a good side at this level but one that has the same aspirations as we do then there is something wrong.

As a team who considers themselves to be strong top 6 contenders and on the back of 3 successive wins, currently outside the play offs, we should be going into this game without any inferiority complex, without happily taking a point or even an injury free defeat now, this is a good chance for us to put a marker down and to perhaps end the day actually in the top 6. Team wise, Douglas has to come in at left back, if he isnt deemed fit enough then Downing. Difficult call at CB next to Lenihan. Rothwell again if fit enough (Downing if not) can hopefully come in with Elliott on the right, Gallagher left and Armstrong down the middle.

The Luton game coverage was appalling but I would agree that otherwise it has been fine for me too and as good as it feasibly can be, aside from showing too many replays when the ball is in play.

Gallagher has been much improved and has contributed well since the international break. I have always been a critic of him in a wide role but I also think that Armstrong is naturally a couple of levels above him so I wouldnt advocate moving Armstrong to accomdate Gallagher. I do prefer Elliott in the front 3 and naturally he plays in the right but I do suspect that Gallagher may theoretically be better on the left cutting in rather than on the right.

100% agree. I feel that especially because we have always been in a position whereby we need to make up a points deficit to get into the top 6, and based on the confidence we all seem to have regarding the players at the moment, especially with the top scorer in the league, now more than ever there is no need (I do totally understand it because as Rovers fans especially we are used to being let down in recent years) to fear games against teams like Bristol City, like Brentford, against anyone. This is coming from someone regularly criticised for being negative but we need to try and win these games and there is no reason why we cant. I remember on here last season going into the Brentford game and we were 3 points away, it was a chance to get into the play offs and make up that ground (temporarily before 3pm fixtures) and people were bracing themselves and willing to happily accept a point before, and then once we let go a 2 nil lead, people still seemed totally content with a point and I was absolutely gutted that we had chucked away such a chance. I do totally understand it as I mentioned but we need to be going into these games thinking there is no reason why we cant win them, it wont be easy but if we dont feel like we have a good chance then maybe we arent serious top 6 contenders. I understand the injury woe as well but ultimately it is the same for all teams. You hear Mowbray mentioning the tightness/faitgue, Rothwell and Johnson to name 2 but again that is par for the course with 2 games every week at the moment. Every team is suffering from injuries, you will need more than 11 players to get a top 6 finish and we have added some depth and numbers.

I dont doubt that we have had injuries to deal with but im not sure we can mourn the first team loss of Vale and Butterworth considering that both have only ever played one dead rubber first team cameo each! Not sure that Bennett and Evans are significant losses either. Yesterdays squad was fairly strong with Dack, Travis, Douglas and Williams the obvious and main absentees. You look around the league and unfortunately it is par for the course. Thankfully we are on a good run of results at the moment though and that is what matters. With Brereton, Mowbray mentioned that it may be similar to Holtby and Travis so hopefully we will see him again well in advance of the season end, lets hope it is even less serious than those 2. I also do think it will be difficult to maintain a consistent and high level of performance amidst such an intense schedule so at least we know we can win games without playing well.

Not that I need to justify it but if I didnt enjoy wins no matter how they come about, ill stop following, and I certainly wouldnt have bought a season pass. It wasnt a good performance, I think most concede that including the manager post match, didnt make me any less elated when Armstrongs shot went in and when the full time whistle went after I had watched from behind my hands for 5 minutes with an elevated heart rate. Positives that I also touched on, Elliotts goal was superb and he was decent, Gallagher who I have criticised before I though was very useful, Lenihan who although deserved criticism at the start of the season I feel has not got the praise he deserved in recent weeks and was outstanding, Nyambe who we have to sign long term and Armstrong was a threat. So 5 positives and apparently 14 negatives all merely in the interest of discussion but all overshadowed by the result which seemingly doesnt mean as much as I think it does.

Every team is badly suffering with injuries at the moment, I think there are players maybe that can be trusted a bit more than others, not sure id be too confident with Dolan or Buckley starting whereas I think you could easily bring in a Downing and be comfortable, im glad he is back, he sprinted forward once like he is 10 years younger. Just have to hope that Armstrong is ok, he is the main one.

The performance was poor, very poor and we was very lucky but the key part of that was that "im very happy tonight because 3 points is all that matters." Would you disagree with any of my opinions?

Very poor performance, some very strange tactical decisions and a massive slice of luck with the deflection and the refereeing, they should have had a penalty but im very happy tonight because all that matters is three points. The experiment that Mowbray tried with his subs was totally bizarre and killed the momentum we were building. Gallagher was playing well. Buckley and Dolan made the wrong decision every single time and the change of system just didnt suit anyone. Hopefully one not to be repeated. The balance wasnt right with the starting 11 either. Bell was embarassing, if Douglas isnt fit on Saturday then play Downing there. Nyambe was very good and the centre backs were also chalk and cheese with Lenihan really hitting some good form whereas Ayala was shocking. In the midfield I just wish that Holtby would control games more than he does, gave the ball away a few times and rarely grabs a game by the scruff of the neck. Johnson also poor on the ball, Armstrong also a threat, Mowbray mentioned post match that he has a slight hip injury but we cant do without him.

Really poor performance so far, certainly not the first time this season that Mowbray has got the balance of the side wrong, often he has played a defensive midfielder too far forward, tonight there are too many attackers and not enough in midfield. They are targetting our left side and understandably as Bell is well short of the quality required. Ayala looks very rusty and has been all over the place as has Kaminskis kicking. Brereton and Johnson have been poor too. One bit of sublime quality from Elliott though. Maybe a night for Downing and Rothwell to give us some more balance. The crowd noise is awful and should be stopped. And the pitch is not taking the quantity of matches too well either. Commentary wasnt working so listened to the Millwall commentary team who are much better to be fair.

Not sure the balance is quite right or indeed that Elliott is a central player but it is a very attacking line up. Bell always a worry at left back. Should be enough to put Millwall away. Big boost for us that Cooper misses out for them.

Weve seen for 18 months that our pinnacle has been to get into a position whereby we can at least see ourselves as an outsider who could in theory with a run of wins (against logic of previous games) charge past a few times and sneak in overcoming a deficit without ever being a proper contender who do spend times in the top 6 places. Even this season we have been the same, win tonight and wed still be outside. It would boost confidence if we punched through and actually had the consistency to at least poke our head through and get into the top 6, even if for a while we got in, then fell out, then got back in etc. Until that happens it feels like de ja vu.

Its another flimsy argument. As you suggest, there was never an implication that we demanded a 7m instant success, the problem was that he wasnt even contributing even as a competent rotational player/back up, and he looked even worse than poor players like Samuel and Nuttall. To be quite honest, such expectations even putting the fee aside for a player who had played over 50 games for Forest were fairly modest, he never even showed signs.

I dont even understand why it is being assumed that Celina was on high wages, he signed for Swansea when they were keen to reduce their wage bill so it was very unlikely that he went there on considerable wages. Indeed we didnt need a number 10 anyway. Using the flex argument (even if we take it for granted that Breretons wages are not considerable, he wont be on peanuts either) to suggest that looking elsewhere may have meant that we couldnt have spent quite the same transfer fee, maybe thats got some logic in it. But lets not pretend that the finances used by Breretons fee and wages werent enough to start thinking about potential opportunity cost and alternative ways we could have spent it. No matter how it is spun, it was a big chunk of our resources.

Rafferty was banned at the weekend when they had no full backs at all but back today. No sooner is Davies back at CB and now Bauer is out for the season. The luxury of a fully fit squad will evade all teams this season.

The fee does play apart but even without it, he wasnt looking any better than poor players like Nuttall and Samuel.

So could I flip that and say that because he is not Alan Shearer, Chris Sutton, Matt Jansen, Roque Santa Cruz, Craig Bellamy, Jordan Rhodes, that I am not happy with a player? A reasonable standard to expect lies in between expensive mercenary and brilliant player. No one has made a direct comparison to Leon Best regarding poor application/effort, and indeed I think that at times his effort and work rate did appear to be below the player we see this season charging around everywhere. The judgement does not come from where the player comes from, indeed every signing is a risk and the manager has to try and manage and calculate that risk with the resources available and is open for judgement both positive and negative dependant on the success of that player. At the time of the end of the second season, it was very difficult to make a constructive case as to the potential he had, indeed some of the most optimistic posters on here were regularly critical of the signing. If your mentality with a young player is either to praise or withhold judgement that is fair enough but if a player does not appear to be showing much ability or quality then of course I suspect you will be in the minority in withholding judgement indefinitely. I feel like quite ironically in the last few pages of this thread, widespread praise and optimism is now being drowned out by a need to revert back to prior to this season when Brereton was not doing so well and needlessly bringing up online criticism that was justified in most minds and making out that the fans were unnecessarily harsh to him, werent supporting him etc and it is a narrative that will probably provoke a lot of people.

Fair point. I must say that watching Rovers beat Preston in front of an empty stadium watching on a laptop screen, I was made up and very happy of course but at the same time I was a bit gutted not to be there.

It isnt black or white but equally, you are using extreme examples again when we know that there are good players out there. I am not under the delusion that is is easy to build a good team but a manager puts himself into a position whereby he will accept that he is judged dependant on their success. Dack and Armstrong, especially the former were signed for really low fees compared to what they have given us. Fair play to Mowbray there. Brereton had minimal impact even had he cost much less than he did, as an individual based on all we could judge him on, it was natural to feel disappointed. If you could remove yourself enough to totally withhold any judgement whatsoever then fair play to you. The fact that he cost 7m means that even if it wasnt as simple as us going and signing a Bamford (random example of higher earner for a similar fee when we signed Brereton) etc because I appreciate that such a player was unobtainable, but it is not being unrealistic and I refuse to accept that, from a position say this summer just gone before this season in which we undoubtedly have seen a different Brereton, that we couldnt have spent that amount of money more efficiently and more effectively. Even if that was within this unsubstantiated theory in which we could only sign a young English attacker. the fact that it is difficult to sign players within certain parameters and in a competitive market is not enough to absolve a professional football manager of any responsibility/debate/criticism should a player seem to be a poor acquisition, which he did when you refer back to the timing of the comments. And I dont think that even the most positive supporter could claim to have seen his performances this season coming, even if like yourself they withheld judgement. Playing devils advocate, if Armstrong ran his contract down and left on a free with us in the same League, which is not totally beyond possibility with 18 months left. Would he be deemed a poor signing considering what would have been a fruitless investment, and thus should we withhold judgement on him until he leaves?