And not good enough.

I'm reminded of the man who has a watch that doesn't work, but gets the time right twice a day.

Rev - we created a host of chances against Everton but took only one. I thought we were very poor yesterday, but.... Two new strikers bedding in - and an unsettled defence, with the half fit Reid sat in front. And for once Prof 'Drog is right, about the Savage booking limiting his capacity to close down. We've Nelsen and Tugay to come back too, so no reason to panic.

I thought he was solid, but he was playing against Kevin Kilbane!

Is it jsut me or do Everton have one of the highest proportions of bone/meatheads in their ranks. At one point they sang ###### ground/no fans. Been to Goodison Park recently?

As usual a bit too much doom and gloom. A game we should have won with ease against a bumbling Everton team led by £15 million of carthorse. A patched up defence looked at ease until we were put under pressure, but that will be solved by Nelsen and ....the Dutch lad and a few games Sections of the quulity press are lauding the two strikers and rightly so. We have a couple of decent players up front who combined well. Worth mentioning that Reid didn't look fully fit and we missed the option of bringing on Tugay in the last 15 minutes to help us retain the ball. If there is a criticism to be made I think Hughes got the substitutions wrong. Mokeona should have been plonked in fron of the back four for the last ten minutes and one of the strikers taken off. Points would have been in the bag.

What a bunch of miserable sods we are. The club announces an increase in season ticket sales and it passes with virtually no comment on the MB. If it was bad news I'm sure the usual suspects would be banging on about the demise of the club.....

I like it. Please take the ###### out of our players, fans and whoever: I need cheering up after the weekend. Keep the flash it fits into the whole ireverant feel. It certainly fits into my human computer interface design principle.

Watching the clip, I think it is the same one I was referring to earlier in the thread.

There is a clip of the Rovers playing Sheffield Wednesday (I think) from around the same time, on display at the Peoples History Museum in Manchester. Claimed to be the oldest life footage I seem to remember.

A defeat beckons I'm afraid with the injuries we are carrying.

Not sure what my lawn has to do with anything Tris and to be clear the "idiot" supporters I refer to are those we've all met and seen disgracing England. How many other countries have had the same problem during the competition and nearly any other competition in the last 15 years. I also didn't realise that you had to sign up to the official "everything's" OK line to be an England fan.

OK. My gripe is that I'm sick of all the "best team in a generation" hype, when it's plain to see that we've been very, very poor. Only the most blinkerednof England fans can be pleased with the performances. And that's the conclusion of most, if not all, pundits and ex-players. Onto the fans: I was out in Germany for a week and had a great time with fans from around the world. Our party stayed far away from the England fans for the simple reason that a significant slice of them are idiots. 400 were arrested in Stuggart, I'm sick of the anti-German chants, the yobish, drunk behaviour, the "I'd rather be a Paki than a Turk" chants. The crass and irrelevant national anthem, the Great Escape tune, Rule Brittania....as you know I could go on. I'm afraid we have nothing to be proud of with this team or our fans abroad. I just hope it improves.

Sick to death watching garbage - on the money Rev - game after game. Crap manager, overrated players and idiot supporters.

Oh I see it was you on the tram giving off a load of racist crap. Small world eh? i'd have said hello if I'd known it was you. Next time maybe phil (sic). We'll have so much to discuss.

I think you're very confused Mr Wales. I think the following statments are all true: a. There is a dress code for football hooligans and wanabee hooligans. b. We all know what it is. c. A lot of football violence it is linked to far right and racist groups. d. If you wear this kind of gear you can only expect tpeople to draw those conclusions about you. e. Not sure Paul Smith is on the lsit of hooli gear.

Re: stone island. I can't say I understand exactly who wears these overpriced clothes, but all the lads who were behaving like idiots last night had the stuff on. All I could conclude that that to wear the brand is to say "I'm a football thug just like you." When I was a kid walking round the town centre we all wore Dunlop Green Flash trainers and carried Hawkwind albums under our arms. Come on you must know the signals this gear and those chequed caps give out. It's a footie hooli uniform. I think Hackett, Lacoste and other brands are part of it too. Not sure how many are made in Englans though.

Oh dear ASEF. What evidence do you for that kind of nonsense? Johny Vaughan has a criminal record and has been well paid by the beeb over the years. I'm sure there are scores of others. Maybe because he's a cockney eh? Wright is employed because he's an ex pro who's basically a fan and who beahves like someone who has the intellectual age of the Stone Island lads I had the pleasure to spend time with last night.

Got the tram home tonight to South Manchester. Spent a lovely 15 minutes with Stone Island clad skin headed idiots. Makes you proud to be English. Tuned in tonight. Ian Wright defends cheating. Gerard does it twice. Have decided to cheer on Hungary just to annoy Stone Island toughies and Ian Wright.

Proper Mild is still part of the Thwaites repetoire. Check here.

A third vote for Thwaites Mild. I and my peer group, were raised on the stuff. I remember singing an adaption of the Steppenwolf classic" "Born to drink Mild" on my way home from the Vulcan (RIP) each and every night of the weekend. They do it in cans so maybe you could order some on t'net Phillip. Moorhourses Black Cat is a great drink too. A tip for anyone Germany-bound this summer. If you're in Dusseldorf sample the Alt-bier (I think), which is a dark sweet ale not disimilar to Thwaites' finest.

Thwaites is thin on the ground in South Manchester, but the Hillary Step in Whalley Range serves a smashing pint. And it's no smoking to boot.

Arsenal were lucky that the goal wasn't given in addition to Lehman being sent off. Arsenal's goal was the result of a dive leading to the freekick. So no complaints please. Sick of hearing the Arsenal obsessed media banging on day after day. When we won the league the coverage in the media lasted about ten minutes.

Been drinking herbegeeh? The guy plays football at a different level to mere mortals. Best team won.

I have to echo other's comments that these are very good quality shots. My favourite is the roundabout. Very very good.