Mercer

Think there is far too much 'nannying' of our 18 to 24 year olds going on. Think it's ridiculous how Mowbray refers to them as 'kids', or words of similar meaning (especially those at 20+). I honestly think we are holding back our young talent. We see PL clubs playing 16, 17, 18 and 19 year olds in 'big' games. Look at Rashford, debuted at 18 and over 30 England caps to his name at just 20. Isn't Magloire 20 and Butterworth going on 20? For goodness sake, this is the Championship with little at stake for us in terms of promotion / relegation. Give the lads a decent go, not all at once, and let's see what they are made of. Mowbray's hand was forced with Travis and the lad's been a revelation, though probably needs a bit of a break now.

Chapman came on for 20 minutes as a sub for M'boro in the FA Cup. Clearly, Pulis (who has achieved more in management than Mowbray ever has) thought the lad was fit enough. In my opinion, the fitness levels of Rovers are amongst the worse in the Championship (evidenced perhaps by how many late goals we concede) and I don't buy that Chapman is not fit enough to at least start on the bench. If he's two months away from fitness (which is longer than a pre season!), as I think some have claimed, why the feck have we signed him now when we could have got him in the summer and saved 5 or 6 months' wages! Why should Butterworth not be starting ahead of Brereton? Just what has Brereton done to prevent Butterworth making a start? By Mowbray's own admission, Butterworth is ripping it up in training and, IMO, is more likely to succeed in the Championship as a goalscorer than either Brereton or Nuttall. As for Dack, in my opionion, he's lost some motivation and fitness and presently is not the player we know he can be. No player should be an automatic selection - a starting place in the team should be earned.

Don't think Dack is as the top of his game either mentally or physically. To me, our players don't look fit and, IMO, Dack is one in particular who falls into that category. No player should be an automatic selection Mowbray tells us Butterworth is tearing it up in training. The lad is going on 20 - let's see what he can do - hasn't he earned that chance?

Think Rovers so unpredictable now - expected a reaction yesterday. Feels to me like a 'play when we want to' attitude prevails. Some arses need kicking. Expect a draw at Reading. Think Mowbray needs to cut the cr@p, get back to basics and stop the square pegs in round holes. To me Raya isn't developing as he should and we need to see what Leutwiler can do and give him a run of games. Nyambe should start at right back - he's the best by far we've got there. Travis needs a break. Think Dack needs to be shown no man is bigger than the club (bench him). Reed has to start centre midfield. Chapman has to start even if we only get 45 minutes out of him. I'd start two up top - Graham and Butterworth. Let them off the leash Mowbray and let the opposition worry about us for a change.

You benchmark yourself against fellow competitors. In my opinion, we are coming up way short in many areas.

Disagree there. You are not telling me there are no UK players available within our transfer and wages budgets that would not improve our starting eleven. If that is the case and what Waggot and Mowbray are spinning then, in my opinion, both are falling way short of what is required and they should be booted out of the club forthwith.

A great picture of both Fred and the old Riverside. A 'real' centre forward who averaged 1 in 2 for Rovers. One of my first Rovers' heroes. Friends who are Blackpool fans loved him - achieved legendary status there by scoring a hat trick against Preston which took them up to the old First Division and relegated arch rivals Preston. Came back to Rovers a year or two later but sadly Fred wasn't the same force. Fred and Shearer the best centre forwards I've seen for Rovers. In his prime, Fred would have been worth £100million at today's prices. R.I.P. Fred.

I think you are being too generous in your theoretical Brereton valuation. To me, he looks no better than a young lad on a free transfer whom we've taken a chance on. Even on a free, you would be tempted to say why the hell have we signed him as Mowbray rarely uses him and when he does, in my view, he offers so very little. To me, there is a lack of drive and ambition with Mowbray. Don't buy this build slowly and steadily stuff. IF, and perhaps it's a big if, we had money available in January, as Mowbray has said, it's unfathomable that we didn't strengthen - not having it that we couldn't find at least one player in the whole UK within our budgets who could have come in and strengthened our starting eleven.

You are not the only one to flag this today. It's a big concern as it frequently strikes me that we are physically and mentally less able than other teams. The way Mowbray harps on about fitness and bringing players up to 'standard' is, in my view, very misleading - you would think we were the most athletic team in the Championship. Chapman is supposedly some way off match fitness but unless I'm wrong, he recently started for M'boro or came on as a sub - as Pulis is a bit of a stickler for discipline, fitness etc, I find it strange that Mowbray doesn't even think he's fit enough for our bench (yet how many times do we read about our lads looking 'leggy'). Think Mowbray makes some very strange statements and decisions.

Would not disagree with you. Some difficult games coming up and it could go even more pear shaped. Didn't personally go today but one of my lads went and he thought we were a mess - full stop. I've always thought Mowbray to be tactically inept and his player trading leaves much to be desired. The Brereton signing, in my opinion, continues to look like an act of sheer folly - we need a goal and our £7million+ striker remains on the bench. I think we've gone as far as we will with Mowbray - hope the 'hirers and firers' soon come round to realise this.

What plan is that and what do you call the long term (2,3,4,5 years) ?

I posted something along those lines two or three days ago (also from a strong Nottingham connection) and got accused of telling lies, being attention seeking and not having a clue! Hmmm. After a relatively barren transfer window for Rovers and reported attempts to unsuccessfully add to our striking options, it will be sod's law that Graham gets crocked tomorrow.

A disappointing window for me. Have we really strengthened our squad by the permanent signing of Brereton and by signing a young lad from Gib and Chapman (where their has to be doubt about his fitness now and ongoing given his hamstring history). A window lasts a whole month and not a panic stricken last few days. Mowbray tells us he had money to spend. We all know the first eleven needs strengthening in several areas not just the striking roles. In my view, our recruitment efforts are poor if we couldn't find at least one player somewhere within our transfer and wages' budget who would come into our first eleven and strengthen our team. Feels like we've missed a real opportunity to push on with the play offs in striking distance. To me, Mowbray writes his scripts to suit his own needs with the LT article an example. Said it before and will say it again, in my opinion, he's a steady Eddie who will not take us back to where we all want to be.

Remember it like it was yesterday. A surreal moment in my personal Rovers' history - a signing from Barca when we really hadn't a pot to pi$$ in. I'm with Tyrone S on this one. Mowbray inferred his last gasp summer splash was to make sure he didn't lose the money. Surely, if you've the money available and sitting just 3 points from the play offs, you give it a feckin good go.

Agree with most of the comments about players in that picture. However, thought 'The Don' was vastly underrated and in my view, he was a gifted, intelligent and versatile (seem to recall him playing centre back, midfield and centre forward at various times for Rovers) footballer - better than Graham. Sadly, he had a bad ankle break (think it was against Sheff Wed) and he was never the same. Newton, Hunter, Knighton, Rogers and Martin were all class acts who would have walked into the Rovers' side of today. At today's inflated prices, you've got £100million of talent there - Newton alone would bring £30/40million.

About three weeks ago, I posted the following on this thread: 'The likes of Arsenal, Chelsea etc make a fortune from loaning out players ranging from those 'fringe' 1st team players right down to the younger lads in the U23's and academies. It is extremely lucrative for them. I have an understanding of some of the deals and fees involved and one club received £millions (>£5m, <£10m) in a fee for one player alone who was loaned out last season. And this is not an 'exception'. I would be very surprised if Rovers did not pay a loan fee for Palmer'. I could be far more specific and name clubs and players including the big loan deal but it would not be the done thing on a MB for obvious reasons. Such postings are made only to try and provide a perspective. Full stop.

Most of us were hoping for big things from Brereton when Rovers committed us to a very significant financial outlay (for Rovers). If Brereton had started with a bang and his goals had made us serious promotion contenders, we would be congratulating Rovers on an inspired piece of business. So far, it isn't looking like great business and Brereton has contributed little to our league position. I think the frustrations of supporters creep in when they can see other areas of the team that need strengthening and perhaps could have been strengthened had we not signed Brereton. Similarly, a couple of shrewd signings now could give us a shot at the play offs this season - if we hadn't financially committed to the Brereton deal, we would have been much better placed to secure those signings now. The bottom line is that the Brereton deal carries a significant opportunity cost.

There has been much comment on this MB about the cost of the Brereton deal with wide ranging perspectives as to the overall value of the deal. We have also seen press links including the LT which have ranged from £7m plus add ons to £7m including add ons. All I have done is to provide a view from someone with a Nottingham perspective. I would think my colleague's views are more likely to be right than not; his understanding is Forest are delighted with the deal and there is a substantial element guaranteed. My personal view all along has been that this is a very expensive deal for Rovers. I have not seen or heard anything to suggest otherwise. Clearly, the BB stuff is irking some so on that note I will leave it there.

Nail on head!

I posted this yesterday on this thread: 'Having spent quite some time recently with a colleague who is a Forest fan and who has good connections with the club, my understanding is that Forest are absolutely delighted with the deal. If my understanding is correct then I think you would be surprised at just how costly this deal is for Rovers'. If my colleague is correct then I am very surprised at what Forest are guaranteed.

Aye, aye, who knows.

Chaddy, it is not my job to scout Europe and the UK for players nor do I have an encyclopedic knowledge of football over the same regions (I do have a life to lead!!!). All I have demonstrated is the next 'big things' are out there waiting to be discovered and given opportunity (eg Pukki, Maupay and Adams). If we can't do better than Brereton at £7million+ or Gallagher at £severalmillions then it's time we got folk into Rovers who can - combined fees for Pukki, Maupay and Adams were about £3.5million which makes the Brereton deal, IMV, a staggering and expensive mystery.

I did say seriously!!! Will this lad from GIb be in the 18 on Saturday ?!

Dack has proved an excellent signing so far - full credit to Mowbray. Until the last couple of games or so, Armstrong has been given some stick on this MB - let's see if he maintains his promise/form. Rodwell - think jury still out on him. Rothwell - I like the lad, a bit of spark but so far, failed to nail down a starting place. Reed, a good player - only wish he WAS our player instead of a loanee. Unless I've missed something, we don't seriously scout Europe. Yep, there are duds there. we know by experience. Conversely, if you have an effective scouting set-up and the appropriate footballing people making the decisions, then there are bargains to be had as evidenced by Pukki and Maupay. Seemingly, we are disregarding a huge market and for a club with supposedly PL ambitions, that's a flawed approach in my book.

You miss the point. Other clubs find them!!! Yep Dack is Mowbray's diamond signing and full credit. Armstrong has done better over last game or two - let's see if he maintains it. Then there's the likes of Brereton, Hart, Galdwin etc