[Archived] End Of Manc Dominance?

[Hughesy]

Who do you suggest they play?

50 games a season against MUFC Reserves broadcast on MUTV?

So if they left the TV deal they would have to leave the league!?!

How did Barca, Madrid & all the Italian clubs get around it?!

[yoda]

So if they left the TV deal they would have to leave the league!?!

How did Barca, Madrid & all the Italian clubs get around it?!

14 out of 19 clubs would have to vote for it!

[Hughesy]

14 out of 19 clubs would have to vote for it!

And would that be legal in a court of law?!

Surely its their product and therefore they would have some say on whether or not they sell it to sky? Realistically they could probably get at least triple of the current TV deal if they went alone!

[philipl]

How on earth can it be their own product????

In all walks of life, the product belongs to the competition owner, not the participant.

Of course they would have to leave the PL unless the PL voted to allow them to negotiate their own rights. That would require 10 turkeys and the big 4 to vote fr Christmas.

In Italy, individual TV rights sales have been adjudged a failure and from next season Serie A switches to the English model albeit with a massive distortion in distribution compared with the PL.

In Spain, there never was a break away PL unlike in England and la Liga has traditionally been weak relative to its two mega clubs. So the situation there is that Real and Barca have the highest turnovers of any club in Europe but none of the other Spanish clubs make it to the top 20 (compared with the PL holding positions 3 to 6 and having 7 in the top 20). By current estimates, seven of the clubs in La Liga are completely bust and only the fear of the banks losing customers is keeping them from folding. By way of contrast, two EPL clubs were completely bust and now WHU are in intensive care with experienced new owners whilst the rest of the smaller clubs might look a bit precarious but in reality are solidly supported by their owners,

EPL does have the oddity though of two mega clubs financially wrecked by their American ownership but to be honest, that means a better level of competition within the EPL.

In Spain, Barca and Real have both won 19 out of 23 games in La Liga so far this season. In England, Chelski and the Mancs have both won 19 out of 28 games so far this season.

[Hughesy]

Thats for that....just a simple question, which you answered - although quite abit of that info was pasted straight from bbc

[philipl]

Parse it to see if it was pasted!

If I lift things direct, I post the link.

[joey_big_nose]

How on earth can it be their own product????

In all walks of life, the product belongs to the competition owner, not the participant.

Of course they would have to leave the PL unless the PL voted to allow them to negotiate their own rights. That would require 10 turkeys and the big 4 to vote fr Christmas.

One day they will leave the Prem, it's just a matter of time really. The disparity in revenue is so massive it is a joke, year on year Man Utd are adding tens thousands of fans to their supporter base worldwide, which is fuling their cash flow. The same is true of the other big four clubs, plus sides like Spurs, Man City and Villa are faring well in garnering followers.

Exit velocity will be reached at somepoint, probably over a dispute over TV rights and some sort of European League will be formed. My guess will be in around 10 years.

Only way this won't happen is if interest in the game (well specifically the top four and the Champions League) diminishes which I do not foresee. An increasing proportion of TV football fans (who are far more important financially than fans who attend the game as there are so many more of them) are only interested in watching the best sides.

Sadly predictable. It is an interesting question of what clubs like Rovers, Bolton, West Ham etc will do when the split occurs. I am sure JW and the other PL chairmen must have informally discussed it.

[Billy Castell]

I'd say good riddance if that happened. Sure we, and the 'smaller' clubs would suffer for a while, but eventually people would get bored of the shallow, corporate nature of the Euro super League and it will be as relevant as A1 racing. Of course, glory supporting 'sawker' fans from the USA or Dubai will watch it for longer, but the grass roots (i.e. the British fans) will be boycotting it. We've seen what can happen with the Glazers' takeover which resulted in FC United being formed, so it isn't entirely unreasonable to assume any Euro Super League will become some Harlem Globe Trotters kind of nonsense with little domestic support.

I find the Champions League boring anyway. Always the same teams playing each other. Apart from Besiktas a few seasons ago that is.

[Majiball]

At the end of the day Euro league or not my money & heart will always be for Rovers. Just as long as the bottom three teams get relegated back to their domestic leagues with the champions of that league replacing them, so we have a chance of a moment in the sun.

I'm just not convinced the big earning current euro teams would be for it, as all the others would get just as much money as them shifting the balance away from them.

[thenodrog]

Might sound odd but would a 'SuperEuro League' find it productive to include clubs with the level of unsustainable debt that the likes of MU and Real carry?

[American]

We've seen what can happen with the Glazers' takeover which resulted in FC United being formed, so it isn't entirely unreasonable to assume any Euro Super League will become some Harlem Globe Trotters kind of nonsense with little domestic support.

Where are all of the fans at OT coming from then? FCU isn't pulling away as many. Yes, there will be the small number of die hards who won't watch, but there will be a large number who stay and watch. Revenues didn't go up 19% in the first 6 months of the year solely from overseas supporters.

[philipl]

The red knights apparently have pledges of £1.5bn

Gill meantime has been his masters' voice in rubbishing them.

Mancs freed of the Glazers would be a fearsome proposition and give ADUG at City a few headaches to say the least. Keeping Cook on has wasted the opportunity given them by United being constrained by Glazer ownership.

[Majiball]

Its true they do have the funds????

That was quick. It would make United a different Beast, 60 mage rich fans backing the club.

Theno, I will never understand the issues over the debt. Yes its excessive but its always aimed at us in the UK (by UEFA & FIFA). Madrids Debt will dissappear in over-inflated strange sales yet again, but I guess thats what happens when the king of Spain is involved in your club.

United would have been No.1 yet again on income if not for the crap exchange rate. But as is being proven with the Red Knights someone will always save those sort fo clubs, regardless of that debt.

1.5billion for a football club, I just don't know what to say to that its mindboggling. And to think we can't find a decent buyer at 2.5% of that value.

[yoda]

Its true they do have the funds????

That was quick. It would make United a different Beast, 60 mage rich fans backing the club.

Theno, I will never understand the issues over the debt. Yes its excessive but its always aimed at us in the UK (by UEFA & FIFA). Madrids Debt will dissappear in over-inflated strange sales yet again, but I guess thats what happens when the king of Spain is involved in your club.

United would have been No.1 yet again on income if not for the crap exchange rate. But as is being proven with the Red Knights someone will always save those sort fo clubs, regardless of that debt.

1.5billion for a football club, I just don't know what to say to that its mindboggling. And to think we can't find a decent buyer at 2.5% of that value.

And we are still playing in the same league as them and will be next season

[thenodrog]

What does it say about the state of Man Utd who are right up there in the worlds 3 top earning clubs ('richest clubs' doesn't fit right) that they need 1bn to bale them out of debt?

Also these 60 Red Knights cannot turn out to be investors but rather donors. It's fine for the mega rich to dump money into a football club but just let em try to take any out! Their only hope would be to look for no return other than to sell their shares to another billionaire. This is the footballing economics equivalent of buying the last surviving bottle of 1787 Chateau Lafite. One cannot drink it cos it is corked, one cannot look at it cos it will be in a bank vault, one cannot enjoy it at all but simply hope to sell it on at a profit to another billionaire. Madness.

The Glasers who were Gods gift half a dozen years ago are now reviled as are the septics at Anfield, try to imagine if Abromovich had tried to take money OUT of Chelsea rather than dump a load in it! He's painted himself in a corner to gain respectability in the safe haven that is London but if he were to try and pull out he'd be under serious threat of his life!

The other side of the coin we have seen at BRFC. A synergistic relationship between the backers, the club and the fans where the Trust supports BRFC in punching way over it's weight but also attempts to make an honest if meagre profit from the investment...... And we've all seen the crappy criticism thrown in their direction by the spoilt generation that has been spawned by the Walker years.

This country no longer regards religion as the opium of the masses........ it's bloody Prem football now isn't it?

[Hughesy]

1.5billion for a football club, I just don't know what to say to that its mindboggling. And to think we can't find a decent buyer at 2.5% of that value.

It wasnt that long ago that people on here were telling me that nobody would raise £1bn to buy United, when I said they would.

As for the Red Knights - its not just all started like the Media seem to think, its been going on for some time now...

[joey_big_nose]

I'd say good riddance if that happened. Sure we, and the 'smaller' clubs would suffer for a while, but eventually people would get bored of the shallow, corporate nature of the Euro super League and it will be as relevant as A1 racing. Of course, glory supporting 'sawker' fans from the USA or Dubai will watch it for longer, but the grass roots (i.e. the British fans) will be boycotting it. We've seen what can happen with the Glazers' takeover which resulted in FC United being formed, so it isn't entirely unreasonable to assume any Euro Super League will become some Harlem Globe Trotters kind of nonsense with little domestic support.

I find the Champions League boring anyway. Always the same teams playing each other. Apart from Besiktas a few seasons ago that is.

I wish that was true but to be honest it isn't. How many people watch FC United game? Averages 2k. How many turn up at Old Trafford? 75k.

Hardly a screaming advertisement for the power of the grass roots.

The trend is overwhelmingly that people will choose to watch a better footballing side if it is possible. Loads of exceptions to that rule - me for one - but that is the direction it is going. It would require a massive change in fan tastes for something to change about that.

[yoda]

I wish that was true but to be honest it isn't. How many people watch FC United game? Averages 2k. How many turn up at Old Trafford? 75k.

Hardly a screaming advertisement for the power of the grass roots.

The trend is overwhelmingly that people will choose to watch a better footballing side if it is possible. Loads of exceptions to that rule - me for one - but that is the direction it is going. It would require a massive change in fan tastes for something to change about that.

You mean like the takeing away of the TV revenue?

[yoda]

You mean like the takeing away of the TV revenue?

or the financial fair play rules that come into effect in 2012 for EUFA competitions,

sorry about the near double post mods, my edit function has gone again!

[only2garners]

or the financial fair play rules that come into effect in 2012 for EUFA competitions,

Those will be the ones that have just been put back to 2015 I presume?

[cn174]

I wish that was true but to be honest it isn't. How many people watch FC United game? Averages 2k. How many turn up at Old Trafford? 75k.

Hardly a screaming advertisement for the power of the grass roots.

Whilst there are increasing numbers of people turning to non-league football, it is never ever going to happen in such numbers that these fans clubs outgrow the original club. It is a nice notion, something you'd like to happen 'for the good of the game', but in reality it insn't going to happen.

Some people will go to both Man United and FC United games. And if/when the Glazers are back, half of them will drop FC United pretty sharpish.

[Exiled in Toronto]

The disaster unfolds

After the on-pitch disasters of only 3 titles in a row and 2 trips to the Champions League final, the Glaziers' nightmare looks to have been sealed by only tripling their money.

What a sad, sad story of lost dreams and fortunes....

[philipl]

This one has got a long way to go.

The story that Ferguson backs the Red Knights strikes me as an attempt to drum up support for the Knights- they might not have everything they say they have.

[Billy Castell]

I do sometimes wonder if/when one of the 'big clubs' will go as wobbly as Portsmouth. I doubt they will, as some rich fool would bail them out, and the fans will keep paying up. In the long term, I do believe the Premier League will come crashing down, or else become a tiresome circus of rich owners and over paid tarts on the pitch. The sport will become a shoddy copy of the worst aspects of US sport. Or should that be more so. So its either begging bowls and ration cards, or something as realistic, wholesome and true to life as Eastenders.

Either way, Stroke Boy will be happy.

[joey_big_nose]

You mean like the takeing away of the TV revenue?

Well that's like saying wouldn't the English countryside would look better if we uninvented the car. It's never going to happen. People like football, they want to watch it on tv, the tv stations pay the clubs.

The basic issue is delivery. Improved technology means people can watch more game, at a higher standard, from anywhere across the world, in a format that is packaged directly to the consumers taste. You might say that the amount of people watching football in the UK has not vastly increased in the last 15 years due to the above and you would be right. What HAS changed is that loads more people watch it abroad. Tens of millions more. Crazy numbers.

Therefore more people can now watch fewer clubs, who therefore receive more of TV money.