[Archived] Kevin Davies - The Second Coming...?

[RovertheHill]

*Bangs head to wall*

Of course we don't buy for resale value alone, but spending our dear cash on players who aren't retiring within 2-3 seasons will at least give us the chance to get SOME of our money back, instead of nothing, while also providing us with a CHANCE to improve as a team. Getting 32 yo's for hefty fee's will make sure we'll have the exact same dilemma 2-3 years down the line except we haven't got the Roque money anymore and will have to settle for freebies and average Joe's. That's the difference between us signing Roque and us signing Davies. And I obviously didn't quote them because of their resale value - you were making an argument that Villanueva didn't succeed, I just put forward people who actually did succeed. I wrote about glass half full and glass half empty, remember? And no it won't be easy, that's why we call it gambles in the first place.

I've already said I feel we can afford a gamble or two because of the facts I put forward. Thanks for ignoring my entire point.

Jeez you are hard work.

I haven't ignored your entire point - you have just changed it. You make one point that we cannot just buy someone for one or two seasons because the long-term future of the club is at stake. That was your initial argument to Nicko that I commented on. And, incidentally, I don't believe Davies is good value at £5m either. But then you take umbrage at my comment and decide that actually we can be optimistic and take a punt on someone or two (and without trawling 50-odd pages I don't know if you have anyone specific in mind) on the chance they will 1) improve the team and 2) be saleable for more than we pay when they/we decide they leave. I'm sorry you cannot have it both ways.

[gumboots]

Jeez you are hard work.

I haven't ignored your entire point - you have just changed it. You make one point that we cannot just buy someone for one or two seasons because the long-term future of the club is at stake. That was your initial argument to Nicko that I commented on. And, incidentally, I don't believe Davies is good value at £5m either. But then you take umbrage at my comment and decide that actually we can be optimistic and take a punt on someone or two (and without trawling 50-odd pages I don't know if you have anyone specific in mind) on the chance they will 1) improve the team and 2) be saleable for more than we pay when they/we decide they leave. I'm sorry you cannot have it both ways.

Really the question is "Will you be happy if all we buy are players who will give us 2 years max and be worth nothing when they leave, as seems to be the case with most of the links so far?" I'm not ignoring the players like the Greek and South african lad or Givet, but the rest we've had mentioned are all getting on. If there is something else to come then the age of these 2 doesn't really matter as much. However, if allardyce is stubbornly set on Davies and persuades JW to use more than we'd ideally liketo pay and if Rothen cost more than anyone here seems to think he will, then we are looking at having very little left over for anyone else, young old or in the middle.

[roverseas]

Jeez you are hard work.

I haven't ignored your entire point - you have just changed it. You make one point that we cannot just buy someone for one or two seasons because the long-term future of the club is at stake. That was your initial argument to Nicko that I commented on. And, incidentally, I don't believe Davies is good value at £5m either. But then you take umbrage at my comment and decide that actually we can be optimistic and take a punt on someone or two (and without trawling 50-odd pages I don't know if you have anyone specific in mind) on the chance they will 1) improve the team and 2) be saleable for more than we pay when they/we decide they leave. I'm sorry you cannot have it both ways.

I'm sorry but I don't follow your train of thought. How have I changed my point and I've only suggested one way as far as I'm aware?

Signing someone at least a few years younger can give us both a long term future (because at least a younger player has the possibility of increasing or at least not decreasing in value because of his age, and most significantly won't retire) and improve our squad if he turns out to be good then be sold at a profit to restart the cycle.

I never said we shouldn't buy someone for 2-3 years because of the fact that they'll leave - if that's what you're getting at. That's not what I mean by long term future. I'm saying we shouldn't buy someone for a hefty fee who will be guaranteed to leave virtually for free/retire after 2-3 years, because then we'd be left with the same dilemma again except we won't have the transfer money anymore. The sale of Bentley and Roque and the likes is what's making us survive in todays market where everyone is backed by wealthy owners except us. It's either that or we'd need a takeover and that just won't happen. Pretty much all money except a PART of our outgoing transfers is used to cover our losses and wages. We wouldn't have anything to buy players for if it weren't for us selling players.

Personally I don't want us to be limited to freebies when Davies/Rothen retire (if they go on to sign for transfer fee's etc). I don't mind Davies or Rothen, I'm just worried what happens after they leave us emptyhanded when they retire or move on for peanuts because of age... and I think we already have a squad capable of surviving short term (as proved by our form under Sam despite injuries).

The Givet signing is a good one, he'd still be worth a few million in 2-3 years time. That's the kind of signings I feel is the way to secure our future long term.

I don't know how to put it clearer than that, and if I'm still not getting through I blame the language barrier.

[BRFC1995]

mr x was disappointing...............mr y was worse.................so mr z is obviously worse than y = scottish lump upfront for rangers

can we please just gamble and sign janko and cross our fingers he turns out to be a world beater we can flog for 25m to city in a year...........we know exactly what we'd get from davies...about a year

[arealbrfcfan]

We have to sign Zigic he IS Santa cruz's replacement.

1 he's similar height

2 good prolific striker

3 Hughes originally wanted him before Roque. Gotta mean sommat

[dr_awol]

mr x was disappointing...............mr y was worse.................so mr z is obviously worse than y = scottish lump upfront for rangers

i would be very happy with boyd and think he could do a job for us, but the rest are poor, kenny miller is rubbish

[neekoy]

Really the question is "Will you be happy if all we buy are players who will give us 2 years max and be worth nothing when they leave, as seems to be the case with most of the links so far?" I'm not ignoring the players like the Greek and South african lad or Givet, but the rest we've had mentioned are all getting on. If there is something else to come then the age of these 2 doesn't really matter as much. However, if allardyce is stubbornly set on Davies and persuades JW to use more than we'd ideally liketo pay and if Rothen cost more than anyone here seems to think he will, then we are looking at having very little left over for anyone else, young old or in the middle.

BUT....What if those players make an impact that gives us better league positions, european football, brings in more fans because we are successful, makes sponsors sit up and take notice and therefore a the end of a 2-3 year sting indirectly brings more money into the club then onselling someone we bought for 500K for a million?

[thenodrog]

Well a few years ago my brother's girlfriend wanted to be a police officer, but was discriminated against because she is white. She was told that the police force needed to recruit more black and Asian police officers to hit their targets.

It seems for some people though that racism only seems to work one way and they don't give a stuff if it's white people that are discriminated against.

My wife was victim to this too a few years back.... refused a position with the Fire Brigade cos she didn't speak Urdu or Gujurahti!

No doubt now she'd have a much better chance in Doncaster.

btw howse about loaning Davies and buying Di santo? Perfick!

[neekoy]

My wife was victim to this too a few years back.... refused a position with the Fire Brigade cos she didn't speak Urdu or Gujurahti!

No doubt now she'd have a much better chance in Doncaster.

btw howse about loaning Davies and buying Di santo? Perfick!

Was the job for community liason officer?

btw great idea

[RovertheHill]

I'm sorry but I don't follow your train of thought. How have I changed my point and I've only suggested one way as far as I'm aware?

Signing someone at least a few years younger can give us both a long term future (because at least a younger player has the possibility of increasing or at least not decreasing in value because of his age, and most significantly won't retire) and improve our squad if he turns out to be good then be sold at a profit to restart the cycle.

I never said we shouldn't buy someone for 2-3 years because of the fact that they'll leave - if that's what you're getting at. That's not what I mean by long term future. I'm saying we shouldn't buy someone for a hefty fee who will be guaranteed to leave virtually for free/retire after 2-3 years, because then we'd be left with the same dilemma again except we won't have the transfer money anymore. The sale of Bentley and Roque and the likes is what's making us survive in todays market where everyone is backed by wealthy owners except us. It's either that or we'd need a takeover and that just won't happen. Pretty much all money except a PART of our outgoing transfers is used to cover our losses and wages. We wouldn't have anything to buy players for if it weren't for us selling players.

Personally I don't want us to be limited to freebies when Davies/Rothen retire (if they go on to sign for transfer fee's etc). I don't mind Davies or Rothen, I'm just worried what happens after they leave us emptyhanded when they retire or move on for peanuts because of age... and I think we already have a squad capable of surviving short term (as proved by our form under Sam despite injuries).

The Givet signing is a good one, he'd still be worth a few million in 2-3 years time. That's the kind of signings I feel is the way to secure our future long term.

I don't know how to put it clearer than that, and if I'm still not getting through I blame the language barrier.

Which all brings me back to the original post I made to you which is that I don't think Nicko (or anyone) is particularly arguing with you but what they (and presumably the professionals that scout for us) are saying is that there isn't a Roque or a Bentley available at the moment - in their opinion. So if you are trying to improve (as everyone must or you go backwards) then you choose either to gamble on somebody you don't entirely rate or you pick a "safe" option.

[gumboots]

Which all brings me back to the original post I made to you which is that I don't think Nicko (or anyone) is particularly arguing with you but what they (and presumably the professionals that scout for us) are saying is that there isn't a Roque or a Bentley available at the moment - in their opinion. So if you are trying to improve (as everyone must or you go backwards) then you choose either to gamble on somebody you don't entirely rate or you pick a "safe" option.

Which no player is of course because injury can suddenly bring any player up short. Younger players have more chance of full recovery. I don't want a team full of kids and I don't want ot see us playing a load of old codgers either. Balance is important and if we only, and at the cost they are probably going to be I don't see where we are getting much else, buy Davies and Rothen then what chance do we have? And before you mention Di Santo, it too is by no means a done deal, and he really is a total unknown in terms of playing week in week out at a decent level and the SA guy is not going to be ready before Christmas probably by allardyce's own admission.

[brightonrover]

One of the reasons I was against Allardyce in the first place was that he has a history of making clever signings of older players who cost little or nothing in transfer fees but have big wages.

This works in the short term but, if we're thinking about the longer term future of the club, will not be enough to keep us in the higher echelons of the game for more than a season or two.

It's not just his style of football I'm against, it's his whole approach to managing the club and his (alleged) dodgy dealings therein.

[nicko]

Nicko - I read somewhere that Bolton are in for Doyle - is this them getting their contingency in place first and does it suggest they are resigned to Davies leaving. Or is it just paper talk?

Bolton are NOT in for Doyle.

[ROVERS]

I hope that you point out that constitutes blatant racism.

If you are in Singapore permanently and are not contributing very much to the club's income then your opinion doesn't count for much at Ewood does it?

Neither is Megson's recent attempts to be Bolton Mk2.

i am finding you comments very childish and short sighted.............

what do you mean by if i am in singapore and not contributing to edwood means??????

are you trying to say that fans abroad are not fans!? and do not have a say or a chance to give their opinions?

and by the way i get friends in UK to get me the jersey of blackburn every season, and have it ship to singapore.....

[deryck guyler's spoon]

i am finding you comments very childish and short sighted.............

what do you mean by if i am in singapore and not contributing to edwood means??????

are you trying to say that fans abroad are not fans!? and do not have a say or a chance to give their opinions?

and by the way i get friends in UK to get me the jersey of blackburn every season, and have it ship to singapore.....

I wouldn't let him get to you. That particular individual is best ignored.

[Blue n White Rover]

Mr Z might be Andy Caroll. Tall Newcastle lad, and Big Sam has worked with him at Newcastle and he may take a punt at him if Davies doesn't work out.

[Al]

Are any of the Davies haters the same that wanted Villanueva for £5 million??

Because i know who i'd rather spend the money on, and it's not the bloke with bags of potenital and sell on oppurtunities.

I don't think anybody wanted to pay £5mil for Carlos at the end of his loan period. Given the choice between the two I'd just keep the cash.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Mr Z might be Andy Caroll. Tall Newcastle lad, and Big Sam has worked with him at Newcastle and he may take a punt at him if Davies doesn't work out.

Good shout.

[thenodrog]

I wouldn't let him get to you. That particular individual is best ignored.

So why don't you put me on ignore yourself Deryck? I bloody wish you would instead of your usual sniping and goading.

[thenodrog]

Mr Z might be Andy Caroll. Tall Newcastle lad, and Big Sam has worked with him at Newcastle and he may take a punt at him if Davies doesn't work out.

I've only seen him once at Ewood but imo he proved a real handful in the air for Samba and Nelsen. A big strong handful...... in fact a proper Allardyce type cf. But also one which I'm sure any incoming manager would want to help get em out of the 2nd Div.

[Al]

So now we have Mr Z who Nixon will not reveal, and questions he avoids like a politician. Time to accept that he just enjoys winding us up. We should just ignore his opinions.

[nicko]

So now we have Mr Z who Nixon will not reveal, and questions he avoids like a politician. Time to accept that he just enjoys winding us up. We should just ignore his opinions.

You have a lot more than one Mister Z. Keep up.

Better still wait until the local paper follows it up.

Like X and Y.

[alexanders]

Do we have MR Æ Ø Å, the last characters in the alphabet?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

We should give them numbers, that'll make it less confusing.

Any progress with #1112389281 Nicko?

[gazsimm]

You have a lot more than one Mister Z. Keep up.

Better still wait until the local paper follows it up.

Like X and Y.

lets hope mister Y is a better player than Mr X is!!