[Archived] Rumours that staff have not been paid

[koi]

Ricky 2 questions..

1. Unless you are being paid in advance would you be happy if you were paid late and from a bank that you have never heard of from a place that you have never heard of? Especially when you know full well that Barclays PLC don't appear to trust your employers as far as they can throw them. Would you not be questioning the reason for the change?

2. Do you think the Venkeys are a. Trustworthy or b. Dodgepots?

We all know we're fooked but a certain few seem to be enjoying the fact and are more than happy to fan the flames even though they know f all.

[broadsword]

Apologies if it seems that way Bryan. I just have concerns that Phil does seem to jump on every negative story and post it as fact.

It was the same with the 'Kean at Champions League Semi Final' issue. It was flatly denied by kean yet Phil posts it as fact.

It's not the first time he's been wrong on a matter. I'll avoid commenting in the future.

Honestly, if you want to comment, please don't let my opinion stop you.

[joey_big_nose]

Unfortunately my understanding of finance is not good enough to say if this could be beneficial, I was however told last month that Karen Sillk had allegedly presented two budgets to the owners (one if we survived and one for relegation) so maybe the numbers work for the owners.

The big problem is that thus far Venky's decision making has been nothing short of disasterous, so with that in mind, it's hard to see any benefit from them remaining as owners.

Hey Kamy,

Don't suppose you have any clue about what the strategy of Venky's is? The PR they have got is terrible, the finances of the club precarious, the support hate them, we will almost certainly be relegated. Why dont they want to get out?

[wakinho]

Hey Kamy,

Don't suppose you have any clue about what the strategy of Venky's is? The PR they have got is terrible, the finances of the club precarious, the support hate them, we will almost certainly be relegated. Why dont they want to get out?

I think it has become a matter of status and respect. I know it sounds stupid, but status and respect is very important in the Indian culture and if venkys sell the club now, people would naturally laugh at them for destroying the club and running away. (as if they haven't been already)

[broadsword]

I know it sounds stupid,

Yep, sure does.

[Amo]

I think it has become a matter of status and respect. I know it sounds stupid, but status and respect is very important in the Indian culture and if venkys sell the club now, people would naturally laugh at them for destroying the club and running away. (as if they haven't been already)

People are already laughing at them. They've systematically done everything possible to destabilize the club and haven't shown the slightest hint of making amends now or in the future. The first thing they could have done to restore some faith was sack Kean six months ago when the fans were up in arms over the shambles on the pitch. Instead, they rewarded his buffoonery with a shiny new contract. Why? It's like we're living in the Twilight zone. I don't think I've ever witnessed a manager so out of his depth be in such an untouchable position before. No wonder there's crackpot theories flying around about Glasgow mafias and Kean being on the board of directors. Yes, some clubs have backed the wrong horse for longer than necessary but they ultimately bit the bullet. I don't recall many managers being bottom of the table with a less than 25% win record putting pen to paper for a job well done. No one really knows what their endgame appears to be. A PL club is worth more than to them as an asset than a Championship one, so why blindly back that spud Kean? Why alienate the fans? Why sideline players to save a few bob? F***ed if I know

[wakinho]

People are already laughing at them. They've systematically done everything possible to destabilize the club and haven't shown the slightest hint of making amends now or in the future. The first thing they could have done to restore some faith was sack Kean six months ago when the fans were up in arms over the shambles on the pitch. Instead, they rewarded his buffoonery with a shiny new contract. Why? It's like we're living in the Twilight zone. I don't think I've ever witnessed a manager so out of his depth be in such an untouchable position before. No wonder there's crackpot theories flying around about Glasgow mafias and Kean being on the board of directors. Yes, some clubs have backed the wrong horse for longer than necessary but they ultimately bit the bullet. I don't recall many managers being bottom of the table with a less than 25% win record putting pen to paper for a job well done. No one really knows what their endgame appears to be. A PL club is worth more than to them as an asset than a Championship one, so why blindly back that spud Kean? Why alienate the fans? Why sideline players to save a few bob? F***ed if I know

I think initially they backed Kean because they didn't want to pay him off and appoint a new manager, as that would have meant paying off the whole backroom staff, and spending more on recruiting a new one.

But as you said, they have backed him for too long and I wonder what Kean has done to still be the manager.

[Pedro]

From a bank in the middle of India?

Are you for real?

Halifax is a small town of eighty-odd thousand...so your point is what exactly Philip??

Why do you insist on pushing unfounded rubbish? You discredit yourself with every ounce of smarm and nonsense that you type.

[bob fleming]

Halifax is a small town of eighty-odd thousand...so your point is what exactly Philip??

I'm sure Philip can fight his own battles so I'm not speaking for him here.

Halifax have a Blackburn branch, employing Blackburn people. Same with Barclays. That's the point. Same with the firm of Accountants (PM+M?) that they decided to get rid of last season, the firm who had looked after Rovers for year's and years, probably Rovers fans as well to boot. Same with their inability to converse with the clubs biggest sponsors in WEC, the local Press, oh, and the fans (unless you count MG Roads occasional, off the record by his own admission, just repeating what he's picked up, posts on here, which I'm sure you don't anyway).

So why have they moved the banking to India? Because Barclays are concerned? and (we're all concerned, with good reason I suspect, look at the table) you can hardly blame them in the current economic climate. To my mind it just illustrates, again, that they don't want to put anything into the town and take everything out. They didn't even tell anyone they were doing it, or that there might be a delay in staff being paid. Or if they did I apologise, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Dress it up anyway you like but to me it's not a positive move. Then again nothing they've done with the exception of renaming the BBE (a great move) freezing ST prices (that's going well) and giving away pies at Wolves has been (all of which are a drop in the ocean financially compared to selling a player, or paying the Agents fees for Rochina's signing).

[JAL]

I think initially they backed Kean because they didn't want to pay him off and appoint a new manager, as that would have meant paying off the whole backroom staff, and spending more on recruiting a new one.

But as you said, they have backed him for too long and I wonder what Kean has done to still be the manager.

Be a partner perhaps.

[philipl]

Halifax is a small town of eighty-odd thousand...so your point is what exactly Philip??

Why do you insist on pushing unfounded rubbish? You discredit yourself with every ounce of smarm and nonsense that you type.

Halifax?

[Pedro]

I'm sure Philip can fight his own battles so I'm not speaking for him here.

Halifax have a Blackburn branch, employing Blackburn people. Same with Barclays. That's the point. Same with the firm of Accountants (PM+M?) that they decided to get rid of last season, the firm who had looked after Rovers for year's and years, probably Rovers fans as well to boot. Same with their inability to converse with the clubs biggest sponsors in WEC, the local Press, oh, and the fans (unless you count MG Roads occasional, off the record by his own admission, just repeating what he's picked up, posts on here, which I'm sure you don't anyway).

So why have they moved the banking to India? Because Barclays are concerned? and (we're all concerned, with good reason I suspect, look at the table) you can hardly blame them in the current economic climate. To my mind it just illustrates, again, that they don't want to put anything into the town and take everything out. They didn't even tell anyone they were doing it, or that there might be a delay in staff being paid. Or if they did I apologise, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Dress it up anyway you like but to me it's not a positive move. Then again nothing they've done with the exception of renaming the BBE (a great move) freezing ST prices (that's going well) and giving away pies at Wolves has been (all of which are a drop in the ocean financially compared to selling a player, or paying the Agents fees for Rochina's signing).

I'm not for a moment suggesting it is positive because I have no idea and I do not claim to have the inside track into goings on at Ewood, but nor is their anything to suggest it is negative move either. In my view they are Indians, from India, have an Indian business...what is the issue regarding using an Indian bank? The stewards or whoever they are have been paid, there is no issue and to me that sounds nothing other than xenophobic because £1 received from Barclays is worth the same as £1 from this new bank and so long as it turned up in my account I wouldn't care less.

You say that it illustrates them not wanting to put something into the town - why? Maybe from their perspective Barclays have ground to a halt the cash flow at the club by prematurely calling in a loan, and by doing that perhaps they have inadvertedly fooked up our chances of staying up with us being unable to buy someone heavily linked like Papisse Cisse. I'm not saying that is fact, just a possibility that should be given thought to. Lets not forget, Barclays were bleeding money and needed to close ranks and claw back money left, right and centre. Maybe Barclays were spooked by the unrest from the fans, or even the self-proclaimed "in the know" fans on msg boards who have concocted a lot of baseless nonsense over the last 18months (amidst the genuine madness we've had the ITK brigade filling us with fear regarding, points deductions, enforced relegation, £100m pound debts, third party ownerships, administration, maffia involvement, corruption, hostile takeovers, imaginary Quataris who use internet warriors as middlemen...yet they claim to have the club's best interests at heart?).

One thing that seems to be forgotten in 99% of arguements on here is the fact that it is unfortunately Venkys club, they put the cash down, they own it and there is no reason whatsoever for them to use the old accountants, board, staff etc. They undeniably inherited a business that was teetering on the edge financially, running up debts, paying too much on wages, and consistently selling off it's best players to "service" debts. Without a doubt they've fooked it up big time as we are seemingly heading towards relegation, but truth be told that very same outcome happened to us under Jack too...in our "well-run" days.

Halifax?

Yes, it is a town where a well known bank originates as you clearly posted previously that people should be worried about a bank originating from a small town with 160k inhabitants.

[Miker]

So why have they moved the banking to India? Because Barclays are concerned? and (we're all concerned, with good reason I suspect, look at the table) you can hardly blame them in the current economic climate. To my mind it just illustrates, again, that they don't want to put anything into the town and take everything out. They didn't even tell anyone they were doing it, or that there might be a delay in staff being paid. Or if they did I apologise, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they had been funding some community initiatives through the club this season? To date their ownership of the club has made no money for them, yet they have spent at least 30mil on owning the club and clearing some of the debt. The accounts from last season clearly showed that they provided 15m to fund the club. So to say that they have not put anything in is just wrong. They have not used the money they've put in wisely, that you can accuse them of. For me, if they continue putting in 15m a season that would be more than I ever expected.

Your comments about them replacing an English bank and a local accounting firm points towards your concerns with a much bigger issue than just Venky's. You are now pointing towards the concern about the invasion of foreign ownership and outsourcing of work, which is a whole other discussion. It's a case of traditional English values being usurped in favour of new foreign ones and the feeling of a loss of culture and detachment that you, amongst others, probably feel.

(And no I'm not accusing you of racism or xenophobia)

[Captain Dunsel]

Ok so the weekly staff were paid after all

after a delay

from a bank in a town of 160,000 in Rajastan whose chief claim to fame is that it registered the highest temperature ever recorded in India

50.6 degrees C

Half way to hell I suppose.

Wow you're pretty good at this Google stuff.

You managed to conclude that Venky's is operating through a tiny branch of the largest bank in India, hundreds of miles from their home base of Pune.

And all of this based on a payslip code of "MIA".

One problem though. Pancini wrote that the code was "MAI" not "MIA"

And people wonder how rumors start.

[Mercer]

I'm sure Philip can fight his own battles so I'm not speaking for him here.

Halifax have a Blackburn branch, employing Blackburn people. Same with Barclays. That's the point. Same with the firm of Accountants (PM+M?) that they decided to get rid of last season, the firm who had looked after Rovers for year's and years, probably Rovers fans as well to boot. Same with their inability to converse with the clubs biggest sponsors in WEC, the local Press, oh, and the fans (unless you count MG Roads occasional, off the record by his own admission, just repeating what he's picked up, posts on here, which I'm sure you don't anyway).

So why have they moved the banking to India? Because Barclays are concerned? and (we're all concerned, with good reason I suspect, look at the table) you can hardly blame them in the current economic climate. To my mind it just illustrates, again, that they don't want to put anything into the town an Id take everything out. They didn't even tell anyone they were doing it, or that there might be a delay in staff being paid. Or if they did I apologise, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Dress it up anyway you like but to me it's not a positive move. Then again nothing they've done with the exception of renaming the BBE (a great move) freezing ST prices (that's going well) and giving away pies at Wolves has been (all of which are a drop in the ocean financially compared to selling a player, or paying the Agents fees for Rochina's signing).

Very pertinent.

Await the outcry if, (IMO) probability high, some Rovers' Admin jobs get transferred to India !!!

[koi]

Wow you're pretty good at this Google stuff.

You managed to conclude that Venky's is operating through a tiny branch of the largest bank in India, hundreds of miles from their home base of Pune.

And all of this based on a payslip code of "MIA".

One problem though. Pancini wrote that the code was "MAI" not "MIA"

And people wonder how rumors start.

It was MIA, as for as I can see there's no bank codes for MAI.

[bob fleming]

Your comments about them replacing an English bank and a local accounting firm points towards your concerns with a much bigger issue than just Venky's. You are now pointing towards the concern about the invasion of foreign ownership and outsourcing of work, which is a whole other discussion. It's a case of traditional English values being usurped in favour of new foreign ones and the feeling of a loss of culture and detachment that you, amongst others, probably feel.

(And no I'm not accusing you of racism or xenophobia)

First of all I'm extremely glad that neither of you are accusing me of being xenophobic (or racist Mike). The fact that you both used the word in your posts is of course by the by.

Secondly, Miker, I can assure you that nothing was further from my mind regarding the above. In fact that's bunkum to use a colloquialism.

I can see why you might be getting mixed up though, Miker, however let's not mix the following up with racism; Following a football club provides people with a sense of belonging. Support the team where you’re from / live, where you were born. That's what I tell my kids anyway (well we have to try something otherwise it'll be Man bloody City).

So the crux of the matter is that it's a football club from Blackburn. The customers, probably more than any other team in the Premier League, generally come from in and around Blackburn (as opposed to further afield).

It's called "putting something back in". Does this go through peoples minds at Venky's? "You know what we should do, a lot of people come to watch our football club from the town, we really should try and put some business their way - maybe it'll help them be able to afford a season ticket".

It's a community, based in Blackburn.

Or are you guys telling me it makes sense to do the banking in India purely because of the interest rates?? Barclays are no longer “bleeding money” by the way Pedro. They have just announced quarterly profits of £2bn and the Chief Exec has just been given a £17.7m bonus (that’s nearly enough to buy and destroy a football club by the way).

There's a lot to reply to. Pedro - yes they have “fooked it up big time”. And there's the rub. Yes we may have been losing money under the trust, but it was manageable. We'd sell a player and away we would go again, but it worked and we were comfortably a Premier League Club and enjoyed the £40m a season or whatever that brings in. “But that just goes on wages though doesn’t it? What if we could drastically reduce that wage bill? And stay up another season!”

However it is quite clear that Venky's have taken an approach that will see us relegated, probably this year, almost certainly next year should we survive. That approach is to run a Premier League football club on a shoe string. All the way through. Get rid of all the high earners, employ a cheap back room team, bring over a Scout from Brazil who also happens to run a chicken factory, go to Harrogate rather than Dubai. The list goes on.

It's a Championship Club at best, possibly Division 1. Where is the money going?

Regarding payments from India. The money turned up late is my understanding. It might not have been a problem but it might have been for one or two people with Direct Debits. Who knows? Wouldn’t have been too hard to let people know that would it?

Miker - how exactly does this £15m a season "they are putting in" manifest itself?

Finally Pedro – “One thing that seems to be forgotten in 99% of arguements on here is the fact that it is unfortunately Venkys club, they put the cash down, they own it and there is no reason whatsoever for them to use the old accountants, board, staff etc.”

You’re absolutely right. They can do what they like (it doesn't make it right though does it?) As can the fans, or customers. A lot of whom won’t be going again next season. Great job.

[Mercer]

It was MIA, as for as I can see there's no bank codes for MAI.

I have a copy pay slip and it's as follows:

STATE BK INDIA MAI BO BLACKBURN ROV (remaining reference deleted for obvious reasons).

[Majiball]

What are the rules on administration and paying back foreign banks?

[ABBEY]

Halifax is a small town of eighty-odd thousand...so your point is what exactly Philip??

Why do you insist on pushing unfounded rubbish? You discredit yourself with every ounce of smarm and nonsense that you type.

Probably full of Indians too..... Joke before Hemel bans me again . No link either h!

[Miker]

First of all I'm extremely glad that neither of you are accusing me of being xenophobic (or racist Mike). The fact that you both used the word in your posts is of course by the by.

Secondly, Miker, I can assure you that nothing was further from my mind regarding the above. In fact that's bunkum to use a colloquialism.

I can see why you might be getting mixed up though, Miker, however let's not mix the following up with racism; Following a football club provides people with a sense of belonging. Support the team where you’re from / live, where you were born. That's what I tell my kids anyway (well we have to try something otherwise it'll be Man bloody City).

It's been common on here for people to accuse posters of accusing others of racism etc. so just wanted to make it clear that wasn't the case here.

That's fair enough about your kids, but you specifically mentioned the change to an Indian bank and the removal of a local accounting firm in favour. You mentioned them in the context of English vs Indian, and other posts on here (such as Philip's "the bank originates from a small town in India" comment), suggests to me that there is an issue there to do with national or local values being compromised. If you're saying that it's not an issue for you at all then I'm surprised, but fair enough.

Personally I don't see a problem with either of these moves because I'm not the one financing the club, they are, and how they deal with finances is 100% their problem. You'll agree that this isn't a charity thing for them and the reason they bought a football club was to get something out of it for themselves (and I don't mean asset stripping).

Miker - how exactly does this £15m a season "they are putting in" manifest itself?

Not "they are putting in", but they HAVE put in. It's "manifested" as money used to plug that 18m loss they recorded last season. Money that I believe was poorly spent, despite our signings in Jan being quite good overall. So again you can accuse them of being wasteful and making horrible decisions, but you're accusing them of taking money out of the club and I haven't seen any evidence of that.

[Mattyblue]

"They are putting money in".

I stand to be corrected, but since buying the club, hasnt't debt been paid down by transfer fees brought in?

How much capital (not raised by selling playing assets) have they put in this season?

[Miker]

As a side note, isn't having an Indian bank a good thing if you're worried about being assured that the owners are not going to financially destroy the club? Any financial mishaps will impact them directly in India and they won't have anywhere to hide.

[dave birch]

Just a couple of points:

Barclays will have been wanting to back out of financing football clubs for a few years. iirc they have put the squeeze on Everton in recent times. It wouldn't surprise me to find that they had wanted to reduce their overall exposure to football generally.

Using an offshore bank could have some detrimental effects, in that interest rate movements can decrease purchasing power (alternatively it can increase it). Mind you, Venkys probably understand Indian banks better (understandably) and can therefore exert more influence.

Miker, there's one aspect in this discussion that you underestimate, and that is the passion that surrounds the local football club in England. There is nothing that even come close in Australia, not even an Aussie Rules club. It's something that you've got to witness first hand over several years. It's being on the terraces, the away travel, the pub before/after the game, the workplace, the home. It really is a big big part of Blackburn, probably the biggest. Remember, this is a town of some 100,000 people, half the size of my local government area here. It's England's Chiavo. The obnoxious upstart that shouldn't be there, an annoyance to the big city clubs that want it their way.

[koi]

I have a copy pay slip and it's as follows:

STATE BK INDIA MAI BO BLACKBURN ROV (remaining reference deleted for obvious reasons).

I was just going off what was posted in this thread and probably what Philip searched. Personally I couldn't give one, I really don't care what town/city/province/state/country/continent etc. the staff get paid from so long as they get paid.