[Archived] Rumours that staff have not been paid

[OJRovers]

MAI probably is a shortened version of MAIN as in BRFC's main account with them.

Will State Bank of India be as carefull as Barclays in advancing funds to the club? I can foresee that within 1 year we will be under default ownership of SBI.

[Baz]

State Bank of India has main uk office in City of London and branches in a few places, closest being Manchester.

Link

[rovers11]

MAI probably is a shortened version of MAIN as in BRFC's main account with them.

Will State Bank of India be as carefull as Barclays in advancing funds to the club? I can foresee that within 1 year we will be under default ownership of SBI.

If they do loan Venky's money then it is more likely that they will ask Venky's to put up their own assets as security rather than Blackburn's. That is one benefit to the change in bank. The bank's clearly don't trust Venky's in this country which I suspect has forced their hand in transferring business to an Indian bank.

[bob fleming]

It's been common on here for people to accuse posters of accusing others of racism etc. so just wanted to make it clear that wasn't the case here.

That's fair enough about your kids, but you specifically mentioned the change to an Indian bank and the removal of a local accounting firm in favour. You mentioned them in the context of English vs Indian, and other posts on here (such as Philip's "the bank originates from a small town in India" comment), suggests to me that there is an issue there to do with national or local values being compromised. If you're saying that it's not an issue for you at all then I'm surprised, but fair enough.

Personally I don't see a problem with either of these moves because I'm not the one financing the club, they are, and how they deal with finances is 100% their problem. You'll agree that this isn't a charity thing for them and the reason they bought a football club was to get something out of it for themselves (and I don't mean asset stripping).

Not "they are putting in", but they HAVE put in. It's "manifested" as money used to plug that 18m loss they recorded last season. Money that I believe was poorly spent, despite our signings in Jan being quite good overall. So again you can accuse them of being wasteful and making horrible decisions, but you're accusing them of taking money out of the club and I haven't seen any evidence of that.

a. Thanks

b. Why do it? Why move it away from Blackburn? What's the point? There's enough questions marks around their existence and the end game at BRFC as it is. I've tried explaining to you why BRFC business should remain in Blackburn but you've not passed comment. It's about "belonging", "our" club, "our" town. "This is Your Ewood" it says on the lamp posts around here. We just won't ever speak to you and do all the back office from India (it could be The Outer Hebrides for all I care - it's the same principal). You can see why there's a lack of Trust surely? All the rumours in the world can't cover up the fact that they don't even speak to us! Why is Kean still in charge? What are the long term plans? How much will Season Tickets be next season if I don't renew by Monday? Why haven't I been paid? Why was Nelsen released for nothing? Why hasn't Givet been playing?

c. If it's not Asset Stripping then what exactly are they "getting out of it" Mike? Positive PR? A love of the football? (this is going off topic now)

d. They've "put in" apparently - do we have proof? Other than they've sold Jones, Kalinic, Samba, got shut of some high earners. All that money is sitting safely in a BRFC bank account now is it? Either way what they have "put in" is what they messed up with last year. Whatever that was and where exactly it all went I'm looking forward to seeing.

[Paul]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they had been funding some community initiatives through the club this season? To date their ownership of the club has made no money for them, yet they have spent at least 30mil on owning the club and clearing some of the debt. The accounts from last season clearly showed that they provided 15m to fund the club. So to say that they have not put anything in is just wrong. They have not used the money they've put in wisely, that you can accuse them of. For me, if they continue putting in 15m a season that would be more than I ever expected.

They purchased an asset with debts therefore this is not an investment. The £15m last season was at best £10m to solve debt issues of various kinds and £5 on players (though I doubt that)

Your comments about them replacing an English bank and a local accounting firm points towards your concerns with a much bigger issue than just Venky's. You are now pointing towards the concern about the invasion of foreign ownership and outsourcing of work, which is a whole other discussion. It's a case of traditional English values being usurped in favour of new foreign ones and the feeling of a loss of culture and detachment that you, amongst others, probably feel.

(And no I'm not accusing you of racism or xenophobia)

This demonstrates an enormous ability to jump to the wrong conclusion and is, frankly, utter nonsense. I can't believe anyone discussing this aspect of Rovers can come up with such complete and utter rubbish. I have to say this, and your continued approval of Venky's in various forms, makes me wonder who is posting here?

[ABBEY]

Just a couple of points:

Barclays will have been wanting to back out of financing football clubs for a few years. iirc they have put the squeeze on Everton in recent times. It wouldn't surprise me to find that they had wanted to reduce their overall Uexposure to football generally.

Using an offshore bank could have some detrimental effects, in that interest rate movements can decrease purchasing power (alternatively it can increase it). Mind you, Venkys probably understand Indian banks better (understandably) and can therefore exert more influence.

Miker, there's one aspect in this discussion that you underestimate, and that is the passion that surrounds the local football club in England. There is nothing that even come close in Australia, not even an Aussie Rules club. It's something that you've got to witness first hand over several years. It's being on the terraces, the away travel, the pub before/after the game, the workplace, the home. It really is a big big part of Blackburn, probably the biggest. Remember, this is a town of some 100,000 people, half the size of my local government area here. It's England's Chiavo. The obnoxious upstart that shouldn't be there, an annoyance to the big city clubs that want it their way.

spot on with passion dave spit on

[47er]

If they do loan Venky's money then it is more likely that they will ask Venky's to put up their own assets as security rather than Blackburn's. That is one benefit to the change in bank. The bank's clearly don't trust Venky's in this country which I suspect has forced their hand in transferring business to an Indian bank.

Remember that if they do loan Rovers money the interest will be 8%+. Guess who'll be paying it?

[OJRovers]

I would think that any UK loans would be priced on UK base rate (0.5%) rather than the Indian rate.

Not sure about them using security from other business areas outside of the UK. I think it will be the premier league money / parachute payments again as with Barclays.

[broadsword]

As a side note, isn't having an Indian bank a good thing if you're worried about being assured that the owners are not going to financially destroy the club? Any financial mishaps will impact them directly in India and they won't have anywhere to hide.

Not really. I don't think anyone in India really cares about Venky's owning Rovers.

What is of more concern to me is that now the club's banking has been taken out of the EU, the transactions are no longer transparent.

The only reason they left Barclays is because Barclays (who are a sound bank despite the credit crunch), didn't like the way they operated. With just cause.

It's a worrying development.

[longsiders1882]

I would think that any UK loans would be priced on UK base rate (0.5%) rather than the Indian rate.

Not sure about them using security from other business areas outside of the UK. I think it will be the premier league money / parachute payments again as with Barclays.

There isn't a bank in the UK - or world - lending at 0.5%.

All rates are based in part on risk - football is seen as fairly high risk. As such you'll be looking at between 8-11% I would imagine, unlikely to be lower than 6% - no matter where the bank is based.

[Sparky Marky]

LIBOR is what you are referring to. You are correct about funding rates.

It is very worrying that the transparency has now gone.

[OJRovers]

There isn't a bank in the UK - or world - lending at 0.5%.

All rates are based in part on risk - football is seen as fairly high risk. As such you'll be looking at between 8-11% I would imagine, unlikely to be lower than 6% - no matter where the bank is based.

It was just a response to the suggestion that the indian bank would charge at Indian base + margin, rather than uk base + margin.

Indian Central Bank Rate is 8.5%

UK BBR is currently 0.5% (1 month libor 0.68%)

Obviously there would be margin on top of both of these. The risk would depend on the quality of the security.

[PAFELL]

Not really. I don't think anyone in India really cares about Venky's owning Rovers.

What is of more concern to me is that now the club's banking has been taken out of the EU, the transactions are no longer transparent.

The only reason they left Barclays is because Barclays (who are a sound bank despite the credit crunch), didn't like the way they operated. With just cause.

It's a worrying development.

Is it legal to fund a uk plc from a bank outside of the UK?

[PAFELL]

I have no idea how these things work.

Could they have moved banking and other operations of the club to India for convienience sakes for them?

Is it easier to deal with a bank that they may know from the dealings they have with the other businesses they have?

Was there not an issue awhile ago that getting money out of india was taking longer than anybody expected. Maybe they had to take money out of accounts held in india, put it into barclays in order to use it in / on the club - which took longer. So maybe having it all in india cuts time frames down.

Is it known if they have done the same with their other oversea businesses. Even if they haven't football is not like any other business - things can move very fast in football.

[Exiled in Toronto]

The only reason they left Barclays is because Barclays (who are a sound bank despite the credit crunch), didn't like the way they operated. With just cause.

I think that is more an inference than a fact. It's equally plausible Venky's got the hump with them and have taken their overdraft elsewhere. I suspect neither is sorry to say goodbye.

Back to the outsourcing issue raised by others; I think any company in the world who bought an operation in another country would baulk at maintaining personnel and costs in that operation if they were able to fold them into their existing infrastructure and save money. The highly respected company I worked for always looked to do so wherever possible.

[Pedro]

"They are putting money in".

I stand to be corrected, but since buying the club, hasnt't debt been paid down by transfer fees brought in?

How much capital (not raised by selling playing assets) have they put in this season?

It is their money. It is their business. They are their playing assets. Unfortunately that is the way it is. We are in a position where we have a strong connection to something somebody else owns and unfortunately we didn't stump up the vast amount of money they did to run Rovers the way we'd like. There are plenty of hindsight wannabees saying that they would have purchased the club or people creating trusts that are doomed to failure, but for me it's a case of either fantasy, nonsense, not wealthy enough, or too little too late.

Due to it's poor following and stature, BRFC hasn't got a major revenue stream other than the Premier League money which was largely paid out in wages. I'd love them to stump up some cash for just a couple of decent players every now and again but it doesn't look likely - unless the money that is now being saved in terms of wages is building up for transfer purposes...unfortunately again, that will be hit hard by relegation if we fail to bounce back quickly.

Remember that if they do loan Rovers money the interest will be 8%+. Guess who'll be paying it?

Themselves/the club they own.

[Mattyblue]

It is their money. It is their business. They are their playing assets. Unfortunately that is the way it is. We are in a position where we have a strong connection to something somebody else owns and unfortunately we didn't stump up the vast amount of money they did to run Rovers the way we'd like. There are plenty of hindsight wannabees saying that they would have purchased the club or people creating trusts that are doomed to failure, but for me it's a case of either fantasy, nonsense, not wealthy enough, or too little too late.

Due to it's poor following and stature, BRFC hasn't got a major revenue stream other than the Premier League money which was largely paid out in wages. I'd love them to stump up some cash for just a couple of decent players every now and again but it doesn't look likely - unless the money that is now being saved in terms of wages is building up for transfer purposes...unfortunately again, that will be hit hard by relegation if we fail to bounce back quickly.

I never expected them to put money in Pedro, I remember saying on here right at the start, 'they make little profit, where are they are going to find the capital to bankroll a PL club?', I got shouted down: 'but their empire is vast, the make gazillons in chemicals and all sorts'.

My point was in response to Miker who said they were putting thier own capital in, my understanding is debt has been paid down by transfer money, Jones etc.

[Mike Graham]

I hear that Rovers staff have been issued with ST's in lieu of cash payment, most have refused on the basis that they are not prepared to watch the sh**e dished up on the Ewood pitch. This is from a secret source at a PNE PR agency based in Ribchester.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I never expected them to put money in Pedro, I remember saying on here right at the start, 'they make little profit, where are they are going to find the capital to bankroll a PL club?', I got shouted down: 'but their empire is vast, the make gazillons in chemicals and all sorts'.

My point was in response to Miker who said they were putting thier own capital in, my understanding is debt has been paid down by transfer money, Jones etc.

I agree with you, it was obvious at the time they didn't have the ready cash to walk the walk in Premier League terms.

[malk]

Wow you're pretty good at this Google stuff.

You managed to conclude that Venky's is operating through a tiny branch of the largest bank in India, hundreds of miles from their home base of Pune.

And all of this based on a payslip code of "MIA".

One problem though. Pancini wrote that the code was "MAI" not "MIA"

And people wonder how rumors start.

This is just too funny. Well done Philip, keep fighting the good fight against the monsters in your head!

[RevidgeBlue]

So as there's been nothing in the mainstram or local press about staff not being paid, can we assume that this thread is merely the latest in a long line of baseless conspiracy theory rumours?

[47er]

So as there's been nothing in the mainstram or local press about staff not being paid, can we assume that this thread is merely the latest in a long line of baseless conspiracy theory rumours?

yep-----Venkys have been very badly treated by the fans and we should all apologise. Perhaps next time they attend a match at Ewood?

[Parsonblue]

So as there's been nothing in the mainstram or local press about staff not being paid, can we assume that this thread is merely the latest in a long line of baseless conspiracy theory rumours?

There's been nothing in the mainstream press to suggest that Kean can't manage or that Desai doesn't know how to run a football club. Perhaps they're the latest in a long line of baseless conspiracy theory rumours? Oh wait, we've lost 11 home games, most our of better and experienced players have been shown the door to save money and we are virtually relegated - perhaps the rumours are true after all.

[PAFELL]

I hear that Rovers staff have been issued with ST's in lieu of cash payment, most have refused on the basis that they are not prepared to watch the sh**e dished up on the Ewood pitch. This is from a secret source at a PNE PR agency based in Ribchester.

I do not believe this. I think we would have heard something in the media by now. Somebody would have been unhappy and spoken.

It just appears that some folk got paid a bit late becaue of changing the bank - but were paid.

[47er]

I do not believe this. I think we would have heard something in the media by now. Somebody would have been unhappy and spoken.

It just appears that some folk got paid a bit late becaue of changing the bank - but were paid.

I think you're a bit earnest and a lot naive!