Priorities for the summer

[jim mk2]

Championship: Two strikers and midfield tough guy / playmaker. Possibly better left back

Premier League: Virtually a total clearout bar one or two and a Forest-style spending spree

[wilsdenrover]

16 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Championship: Two strikers and midfield tough guy / playmaker. Possibly better left back

Premier League: Virtually a total clearout bar one or two and a Forest-style spending spree

Sounds virtually the same as I’d be looking to do 

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Sounds virtually the same as I’d be looking to do 

no way should we do a forest style spending if promote

[wilsdenrover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

no way should we do a forest style spending if promote

Which of our current squad do you think are good enough for the premier league?

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Which of our current squad do you think are good enough for the premier league?

I would give the bulk of this squad the chance to PL football if we get promote but lets get there first. 

[wilsdenrover]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would give the bulk of this squad the chance to PL football if we get promote but lets get there first. 

If we don’t improve the squad in the closed season we’d have to wait until January to do so - and by then it might well be too late.

But like you say, we need to get there first before we start to ‘worry’ about that😀

[roversfan99]

Forest have been extreme in their recruitment but half of their Championship team had gone back and their policy should keep them in the league.

"Giving the bulk of the squad a chance" is a phoney mentality accepting defeat before you start. There is a balance between wreckless spending and "giving the squad a chance" like Norwich seemingly did.

[Mattyblue]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would give the bulk of this squad the chance to PL football if we get promote but lets get there first. 

Behave! Loser mentality.

You have to constantly improve in football, especially with a financial windfall.

[SBlue]

6 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

Hyam, JPvH, Carter and Wharton. That's a beastly bunch of centre backs. With Brittain and JRC either side and Pickering as cover it's the best defense we'd have had in a decade.

I rate a fit and in form Ayala at least as highly as JPVH. We’ve got a decent amount of games out of him lately, so although he probably needs replacing we’ve had that cracking defence in the squad all season 

[Officer Barbrady]

Priorities will change on what we league we are in.

But, in a general sense, we should want to keep the key pieces together so they can continue to get better. Being in the Prem would require some improvement in more than one area, but again let's try to not count our chickens before they hatch if you will.

And I am a glass half full kind of guy just as an FYI.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

If we don’t improve the squad in the closed season we’d have to wait until January to do so - and by then it might well be too late.

But like you say, we need to get there first before we start to ‘worry’ about that😀

I never said we shouldn't make any signings but I would make 6 or 7 quality signings that would improve the squad but I would like to give this squad a chance to prove whether they step up in PL. Similar to what Brentford did when they got promote. 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Forest have been extreme in their recruitment but half of their Championship team had gone back and their policy should keep them in the league.

"Giving the bulk of the squad a chance" is a phoney mentality accepting defeat before you start. There is a balance between wreckless spending and "giving the squad a chance" like Norwich seemingly did.

no one is accepting defeat before you start but I wouldn't make wholescale changes to a squad that got us to the PL but give them a chance to prove whether they are good enough whilst making 6 or 7 quality signings. 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I never said we shouldn't make any signings but I would make 6 or 7 quality signings that would improve the squad but I would like to give this squad a chance to prove whether they step up in PL. Similar to what Brentford did when they got promote. 

no one is accepting defeat before you start but I wouldn't make wholescale changes to a squad that got us to the PL but give them a chance to prove whether they are good enough whilst making 6 or 7 quality signings. 

It shouldnt come down to "giving players a chance" to prove themselves. The decision should be made then and there as to who will and wont be good enough (resources pending) and then going from there. Football is a ruthless business. I dont think that any of our players are Premier League quality but of course we wouldnt change them all.

[Mattyblue]

‘6 or 7 quality signings’ sounds like ‘wholesale changes’ to me…

[chaddyrovers]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It shouldnt come down to "giving players a chance" to prove themselves. The decision should be made then and there as to who will and wont be good enough (resources pending) and then going from there. Football is a ruthless business. I dont think that any of our players are Premier League quality but of course we wouldnt change them all.

I will stand by my opinion on this. How many of Brentford was good enough before they got there like. My approach is sensible and logic. Anyway lets reach the PL first before we get ahead of ourselves

[joey_big_nose]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I will stand by my opinion on this. How many of Brentford was good enough before they got there like. My approach is sensible and logic. Anyway lets reach the PL first before we get ahead of ourselves

Brentford had a really really good squad though which they honed and improved season after season until they were finally promoted. 

We dont have that really. Kaminski, Hyam, Brittain could maybe make it in the prem. After that its a lot of very young players who it is hard to know how they would handle the step up.

The gulf between prem and championship is absolutely massive now. You look at the size, athleticism and technical quality of even a lower bottom half prem player and its so far ahead of whats kicking about in the Championship.

Trav, A Wharton, Buckley I reckon could have had a crack at the prem ten years ago - the old sink or swim. But now the suspicion is they would get absolutely eaten alive. 

Its a bit unhealthy how the gap between champ and prem is widening imo.

[J*B]

New left back, new centre back, new central midfielder, BBD replacement, number 9. In priority order:

BBD replacement

Number 9

Central Midfielder

New left back

New centre back

[R0verb0y]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

no way should we do a forest style spending if promote

I think this may well be the first time I find myself in agreement with @chaddyrovers.

If only for the eminently simple reason that, even if (big word) we do find ourselves in the Premier League at the end of the season, I can't imagine our owners making a sufficiently significant 'kitty' available to recruit players who'd keep us there.

Given JDT's repeated reminders that we are "a Project", I think we'll have to consolidate promotion the way Dyche did it, by using Parachute payments to stabilise ourselves in the Premier League.

[roversfan99]

Even accepting that the probability of survival in the unlikely event of promotion is low, the mantra should be to be as ambitious as you can and spend a reasonable amount to try and stay up whilst recruiting players of a certain type ie avoiding too many players over a certain age and ensuring that wages offered are never potentially crippling should we come back down. You can't "allow the majority those players who take us up to try and keep us there" through some noble deed, if you can improve upon any of them then great.

Forest have taken a financial risk by spending quite as much as they have and some of their signings do not fit in with the above but it looks like it will pay off.

You would look at Forest and the likes of Navas, Shelvey, Wood, Felipe, Lingard etc and think maybe they are the types to avoid but I guess some of them seem to be either on short term deals or signed from a strong position.

They have signed players like Gibbs White, O'Brien, Toffolo, Williams and Bowler who would all be stand out players if they came down although their problem with half of them is that they have potentially upset them by signing quite so many players as to sideline them.

[Mattyblue]

9 hours ago, R0verb0y said:

I think this may well be the first time I find myself in agreement with @chaddyrovers.

If only for the eminently simple reason that, even if (big word) we do find ourselves in the Premier League at the end of the season, I can't imagine our owners making a sufficiently significant 'kitty' available to recruit players who'd keep us there.

Given JDT's repeated reminders that we are "a Project", I think we'll have to consolidate promotion the way Dyche did it, by using Parachute payments to stabilise ourselves in the Premier League.

But he then said he wants ‘6 or 7 quality players’, what kitty they coming out of?

[Admiral Nelsen]

11 hours ago, J*B said:

New left back, new centre back, new central midfielder, BBD replacement, number 9. In priority order:

BBD replacement

Number 9

Central Midfielder

New left back

New centre back

 

I think it'll be interesting to see how he wants to replace BBD. Signing Thomas has really highlighted that Mowbray left us with literally zero 'proper' wingers, so I wonder if we will look to get a more creative player to start on the left alongside a goalscoring number 9?

 

In any case, two new forwards are easily the most pressing issues. If getting the right option there takes 90% of whatever budget we have, that'd do me.

Our starting options elsewhere can be good enough (albeit with more consistency needed in a few cases) so any improvement there (beyond needing extra legs to replace Morton/Ayala) is a bonus.

[R0verb0y]

l take your point, @Mattyblue. Perhaps I should have written,  "I think this is the first time I find myself up to a point in agreement with @chaddyrovers."

In so far as I wouldn't want us to go on a Forest-style spending spree. (Not that I could, in my wildest dreams, ever imagine our owners ever sanctioning such a shopping trip!)

What I would want is for JDT to have provided Gregg and his team with a fairly detailed shopping list; possibly - as we did with Kaminski - shopping in the boutiques of Europe for players whose prices might be within our budget while satisfying government rules about eligibility to play in either the Football League or the Premier League.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Even accepting that the probability of survival in the unlikely event of promotion is low, the mantra should be to be as ambitious as you can and spend a reasonable amount to try and stay up whilst recruiting players of a certain type ie avoiding too many players over a certain age and ensuring that wages offered are never potentially crippling should we come back down.

How knows whether we would stay up or not if we got there. I don't think its low as you do. Of course you should try to stay there and give yourself the best chance but I wouldn't expect reckless spending but good quality signings of 6 or 7. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You can't "allow the majority those players who take us up to try and keep us there" through some noble deed, if you can improve upon any of them then great.

I very much disagree there. You should give them their opportunities to see if they can step up whilst adding 6 or 7 quality players

 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Forest have taken a financial risk by spending quite as much as they have and some of their signings do not fit in with the above but it looks like it will pay off.

You would look at Forest and the likes of Navas, Shelvey, Wood, Felipe, Lingard etc and think maybe they are the types to avoid but I guess some of them seem to be either on short term deals or signed from a strong position.

They have signed players like Gibbs White, O'Brien, Toffolo, Williams and Bowler who would all be stand out players if they came down although their problem with half of them is that they have potentially upset them by signing quite so many players as to sideline them.

Forest transfer policy was chaos last summer with different players being signed. No proper transfer policy. January transfer business looked much better and to a plan. 

 

[vyeo]

If we stay in the championship:

2 forwards (replacing BBD and Dack, who I don't think we'll keep in this scenario), 1 midfielder (replacing Morton), 1 left back, 1 centre back (replacing Ayala), 1 utility (replacing Mola + Edun).

Of these, I think we would aim for at least one of the forwards and the midfielder to be first-11 quality for a top-6 championship team, and possibly the left-back if the money stretches far enough. (Someone said Manning would be available on a free - we should be all over that!) Some of the current rotation options, like Dolan, may get promoted to regular starters. The rest will probably be rotation options to build depth. I think the centre back will depend on what the market looks like - may go for it if someone like JPVH becomes available, but we probably wouldn't look to pay a significant fee for a cb.

If we go up:

2 forwards, 2 midfielders, 1 left back, 1 centre back, 1 utility, 1 right back, 1 goalkeeper

Immediate needs are not too different from the first scenario, but would obviously have more ammunition and hence chances of getting better quality. I think we may keep Dack if we go up, simply because there would be more space to carry his wages in this case. Additional goalkeeper in this scenario because I suspect both our keepers, while good for championship standards, won't be good enough as prem starters. And similarly for right back and centre back too.  

Also, I hope we would go for a practical approach - strengthen wisely with quality in key positions, a bit like how we did in the early Hughes years (i.e., accepting what we thought was sub-optimal players like Dickov, Kuqi, Mokoena etc) instead of replacing the entire team ala-Forest. (You just know that we would go down in the year they remove parachute payments, so we better build sustainably if we do make it!)

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

How knows whether we would stay up or not if we got there. I don't think its low as you do. Of course you should try to stay there and give yourself the best chance but I wouldn't expect reckless spending but good quality signings of 6 or 7. 

I very much disagree there. You should give them their opportunities to see if they can step up whilst adding 6 or 7 quality players

 

Forest transfer policy was chaos last summer with different players being signed. No proper transfer policy. January transfer business looked much better and to a plan. 

 

They were above the drop zone even before January so it may seem like chaos but it may well prove inspired.

I would never advocate wreckless spending but you cant be half arsed out of loyalty and obligation. I wouldnt advise signing 20 odd players like Forest (although with that number, they had loads of loanees that went back and also some of their signings have since either had bad injuries or been loaned out) but I always think a new 11 is a good idea if possible and then our best current 11 could then compete with that. I would be doubtful that any of the current squad would establish themselves as Premier League players, unsurprising considering how poor the quality of this league is in comparison.

Suppose its an unlikely ask even now to get promoted as even a top 6 finish gives you a 25% chance. Assuming we stay down, we badly need a striker and a couple of wingers, as well as at least 1 if not probably 2 central midfielders. Fine in net, attacking midfield, and defensively we have 3 full backs who I am happy with but maybe get another left back and maybe get a centre back and loan out Phillips.

[DeeCee]

A new CEO and new owners would be good.