Priorities for the summer

[ben_the_beast]

53 minutes ago, Spartakfenni said:

Like another Danny Murphy and the list of expensive has beens we’ve had in the past. I’m not a lover of Brentford’s manager but they’ve done it without reverting to “out of favour Premier League players” who would bust our pay structure. Better to get the head of recruitment to identify players that can make the step up to the Premiership.

In a word, no. There are so many examples of experience being invaluable. To solely pick out the worst of the absolute dross we signed under Kean to suit an argument is silly. 

[RoversClitheroe]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

If you want more season ticket holders inside the stadium then prices need to drop to attract fans who can't afford 400 pounds but could afford 280 or 250 pounds. You might attract another 5k more season ticket holders with those prices. Revenue wouldn't necessarily increase depending on prices and who is season ticket holder

Chaddy, have you heard of the multiplier effect? 

You attract 5k more you'd generate more revenue. At £250 Vs 5k less at £400

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

If you want more season ticket holders inside the stadium then prices need to drop to attract fans who can't afford 400 pounds but could afford 280 or 250 pounds. You might attract another 5k more season ticket holders with those prices. Revenue wouldn't necessarily increase depending on prices and who is season ticket holder

The question was aimed at you, I personally would reduce prices. It's not as simple with numbers in that there are added considerations, notably the potential to have those holders back attending regularly beyond one season, the potential to make more from them within the ground and even with potential shop sales although we are also lacking on that front hence the lack of availability regarding shirts. Also, a bigger crowd will lead to a better atmosphere which improves the experience.

I don't think that it is value for money, shown by the poor sales. 

[bluebruce]

4 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

 

I'd be quite open to a combination of top Championship level players (would O'brien still consider us) a couple of overseas recruits and any proven Premier league players who are out of favour. Be shrewd in our recruitment. It would be an almighty scrap to stay in the Prem and if we were relegated, we'd be well set to bounce back. 

I think more than a couple of overseas recruits would be good business. We haven't really been able to use Europe very well since Brexit, and apart from TK, simply failed to prior. Having Prem money and status would enable us to be able to secure players from a much wider pool, and it's a better value market.

[Spartakfenni]

3 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

In a word, no. There are so many examples of experience being invaluable. To solely pick out the worst of the absolute dross we signed under Kean to suit an argument is silly. 

Why is it being silly? We have picked up experienced top league players over the last sixty years that have failed to live up to their reputation. John Redford is another that strings to mind. If a premiership player is out a favour there are a multitude of reasons why they have been overlooked, attitude, injury record, age,  etc. The point is what’s going to add value to the club? Gordon Cowens was a wonderful footballer who really helped the club but he was only with us for a season and a half, and was replaced by a young TIm Sherwood, who couldn’t get in the team when he was bought from Norwich. We have limited funds and need to ensure the benefit is maximised. That’s not a silly argument!

[philipl]

I am going to be naughty and talk about planning for the Premier League. Although in my defence, I am taking my lead from both Gregg Broughton and Jon Dahl Thomasson who have made it totally clear the project is to make Rovers a sustainable Premier League club.

The parachute payments are the bain of Championship clubs >4 years outside the top flight but clubs making it into the EPL against all odds without parachute payments in recent seasons have tended to survive the first season up.

One reason for this is because such clubs are not burdened by retaining players on PL wages who were too poor to shift when relegated and are proven failures at the higher level which typically bedevil the squads of yoyo sides.

Forest are at the furthest extreme but a newly promoted Rovers would have a clean sheet of players on reasonable wages coming up and a transfer budget approaching £100m including wages to strengthen to decent Premier League level with.

How we use this one off opportunity would determine the club's future well being for years to come. I have no doubt GB and JDT would deny it if asked but I bet they have been doing PlayStation transfers in their occasional spare moments.

With the best will in the World, the Welsh FA is not playing at the level Rovers would be shopping at if the next 14 EFL games deliver us into dreamland.

 

 

[bluebruce]

5 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

In a word, no. There are so many examples of experience being invaluable. To solely pick out the worst of the absolute dross we signed under Kean to suit an argument is silly. 

He wasn't just picking out the worst (Murphy) of the dross we signed under Kean. He said 'and the list of expensive has-beens we've had' with Prem experience. Here's a few more off the top of my head:

Etuhu

Guthrie

Rodwell (ok at times, but still, a very much faded force and a liability at times too)

Wes Brown

DJ Campbell

Peter Whittingham (RIP, no disrespect intended, he was just past it at that point and it wasn't even the Championship)

Elliott Ward

Kilgallon

I can't say they were all expensive as I don't know wages, but I'm sure none of those were worth what we paid them (possible exception of Rodwell if he was mostly pay-as-you-play, but he cost us in games at times and left for free shortly after). There's some others I'm perhaps being generous by not including, and doubtless some I've forgotten. Ignoring the list of Premiership youngsters with a few Prem games of experience who have flopped majorly too.

There are some successes too, but you have to choose carefully when buying Prem players. Playing at or being on the books of a Prem club doesn't automatically make you good enough for this level, let alone the one above.

[Mike E]

Kilgallon wasn't a has-been imo. At one point was our only competent defender!

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Chaddy, have you heard of the multiplier effect? 

You attract 5k more you'd generate more revenue. At £250 Vs 5k less at £400

But you haven't taken into account that you will have 9k season ticket holders playing less plus not every new season ticket holder will be full price as some of new STH will be seniors, 18-23 and juniors. 

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The question was aimed at you, I personally would reduce prices. It's not as simple with numbers in that there are added considerations, notably the potential to have those holders back attending regularly beyond one season, the potential to make more from them within the ground and even with potential shop sales although we are also lacking on that front hence the lack of availability regarding shirts.

I already said what I would do in previous post. 

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think that it is value for money, shown by the poor sales. 

Thats where we have agree to disagree there. 

[ben_the_beast]

4 hours ago, Spartakfenni said:

Why is it being silly? We have picked up experienced top league players over the last sixty years that have failed to live up to their reputation. John Redford is another that strings to mind. If a premiership player is out a favour there are a multitude of reasons why they have been overlooked, attitude, injury record, age,  etc. The point is what’s going to add value to the club? Gordon Cowens was a wonderful footballer who really helped the club but he was only with us for a season and a half, and was replaced by a young TIm Sherwood, who couldn’t get in the team when he was bought from Norwich. We have limited funds and need to ensure the benefit is maximised. That’s not a silly argument!

I think we have very different definitions of the word experience. You seem to be perceiving it as a player in his mid 30's, possibly looking for one last pay day. The Premier League is so awash with money that clubs are often looking at what is new and shiny with plenty of competent players still in their 20's struggling for game time. Players who have wracked up a decent amount of Premier League minutes in their careers.

[Upside Down]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

If you want more season ticket holders inside the stadium then prices need to drop to attract fans who can't afford 400 pounds but could afford 280 or 250 pounds. You might attract another 5k more season ticket holders with those prices. Revenue wouldn't necessarily increase depending on prices and who is season ticket holder

Match day revenue would increase significantly.

Get them on sale now.

£400 for JW and £300 for everywhere else.

It isn't difficult.

[R0verb0y]

4 hours ago, bluebruce said:

He wasn't just picking out the worst (Murphy) of the dross we signed under Kean. He said 'and the list of expensive has-beens we've had' with Prem experience. Here's a few more off the top of my head:

Etuhu

Guthrie

Rodwell (ok at times, but still, a very much faded force and a liability at times too)

Wes Brown

DJ Campbell

Peter Whittingham (RIP, no disrespect intended, he was just past it at that point and it wasn't even the Championship)

Elliott Ward

Kilgallon

I can't say they were all expensive as I don't know wages, but I'm sure none of those were worth what we paid them (possible exception of Rodwell if he was mostly pay-as-you-play, but he cost us in games at times and left for free shortly after). There's some others I'm perhaps being generous by not including, and doubtless some I've forgotten. Ignoring the list of Premiership youngsters with a few Prem games of experience who have flopped majorly too.

There are some successes too, but you have to choose carefully when buying Prem players. Playing at or being on the books of a Prem club doesn't automatically make you good enough for this level, let alone the one above.

Dear me, haven't we cheered on some dross in blue and white over recent years?!

The names I've expunged from my memory bank!

[goozburger]

19 minutes ago, R0verb0y said:

Dear me, haven't we cheered on some dross in blue and white over recent years?!

Luke Varney was my favourite dross. The epitome of how we far we fell. Depressing turning up to watch him on a cold Tuesday night in a third-full stadium.

[Spartakfenni]

14 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

I think we have very different definitions of the word experience. You seem to be perceiving it as a player in his mid 30's, possibly looking for one last pay day. The Premier League is so awash with money that clubs are often looking at what is new and shiny with plenty of competent players still in their 20's struggling for game time. Players who have wracked up a decent amount of Premier League minutes in their careers.

I was not just looking at players at the end of their careers. I’d include Franco Di Santo, Kasey Palmer, Todd Kane, as failures these players although young would be earning more than our established players. We’ve had a couple of good ones from Man City, and good and bad from Liverpool. Therefore just because they are at a Premier team doesn’t men they are going to improve our team. If you’re looking at experienced premiership players in their mid 20’s that aren’t playing their salaries are in the millions. Again the question would be why are they not being selected? Better to look at recruiting permanent talent that’s going to improve the squad.

[ben_the_beast]

12 hours ago, Spartakfenni said:

I was not just looking at players at the end of their careers. I’d include Franco Di Santo, Kasey Palmer, Todd Kane, as failures these players although young would be earning more than our established players. We’ve had a couple of good ones from Man City, and good and bad from Liverpool. Therefore just because they are at a Premier team doesn’t men they are going to improve our team. If you’re looking at experienced premiership players in their mid 20’s that aren’t playing their salaries are in the millions. Again the question would be why are they not being selected? Better to look at recruiting permanent talent that’s going to improve the squad.

Again you're just picking players to suit your argument. Let me counter with David Bentley, Stephen Warnock, Yakubu and Brad Friedel. 4 players all with Premier League experience who were excellent for us, that I've thought of in a second. 

Just to demonstrate that you're being selective to try to back up your point, let's transfer the stance you're taking to the European Market. Duds, Radoslav Petrovic, Corrado Grabbi and Vince Grella vs Mccarthy, Santa Cruz and Samba who were brilliant buys. 

In my original post I wrote if we were promoted it would be good to look at a couple of top championship players supplemented by players from the European market and a bit of Premier League experience, so I don't see why you've taken such opposition to what was 1/3 of the post. Pre-venkys Rovers made it part of their identity picking up unpolished diamonds. Like I've stated above you're literally picking players to suit your own argument so I feel like I'm wasting my breath. And it's not even a particularly staunch stance of mine as shown by the fact it was a point which made up 1/3 of my original post. 

[joey_big_nose]

If we did go up Id hope we take a leaf out of Brentford, Wolves or Brightons playbook and find high quality relatively unknown players who dont cost the earth.

[Upside Down]

And then totally fuck up the rudimentary process of filling out the forms to sign them.

[roverandout]

A striker a striker A STRIKER.  and Gallagher binned off

[Ghost7]

Two player's I'd be cashing in on in summer are John Buckley and Gallagher, if there are any 7 figure offers... sell!

Gallagher, Ayala and Dack off the books would make the wage budget a lot healthier and there is potential for Buckley and Gallagher to generate a few million. Rovers have got to start selling the more inconsistent players that we might get a fee for.

Ayala, Dack, Diaz, Morton, Mola and Thomas are the definites off the wages in summer and I wouldn't be against adding Gallagher and Buckley to that if there is money to be had. Some cash from a Brentfod Raya sale and possibly Ash Phillips, I think there is reason to be positive about a full summer under Tomasson IF he stays... and that's a big if!

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, roverandout said:

A striker a striker A STRIKER.  and Gallagher binned off

Is that just one striker or 3 striker? 

2 hours ago, Ghost7 said:

Two player's I'd be cashing in on in summer are John Buckley and Gallagher, if there are any 7 figure offers... sell!

Gallagher, Ayala and Dack off the books would make the wage budget a lot healthier and there is potential for Buckley and Gallagher to generate a few million. Rovers have got to start selling the more inconsistent players that we might get a fee for.

Ayala, Dack, Diaz, Morton, Mola and Thomas are the definites off the wages in summer and I wouldn't be against adding Gallagher and Buckley to that if there is money to be had. Some cash from a Brentfod Raya sale and possibly Ash Phillips, I think there is reason to be positive about a full summer under Tomasson IF he stays... and that's a big if!

sell Buckley?

[roverandout]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Is that just one striker or 3 striker? 

sell Buckley?

Hope u are being facetious with that comment 

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Hope u are being facetious with that comment 

You wrote Striker 3 times so just asking it 1 striker or 3 strikers signings you want?

I would like a striker with pace sign this summer

[Ghost7]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Is that just one striker or 3 striker? 

sell Buckley?

Absolutely, we've got to start selling underperforming players IF we can fool someone into paying 7 figures.

[joey_big_nose]

21 minutes ago, Ghost7 said:

Absolutely, we've got to start selling underperforming players IF we can fool someone into paying 7 figures.

If someone is willing to pay 10 million for Buckley with Adam Wharton coming through I doubt there would be many complaints. But frankly hes a decent 2-3 million player who if we only get that offer for we may as well keep developing. No ones going to offer more that at the moment.

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, Ghost7 said:

Absolutely, we've got to start selling underperforming players IF we can fool someone into paying 7 figures.

I wouldn't be selling Buckley at all. Him and Travis have been good overall since coming back into the team after being dropped for a number of games