Brum are going down. One of the worst teams in the league and poor ownership to boot. All the other teams around them can point to some encouraging signs but struggle to see any reason why Brum will stay up save Rotherham burn out with all the games they need to catch up on. Even then for the first one or two they may have an advantage over other teams and get clear.

See you keep going on about unfounded speculation but it's hardly unfounded is it? It's undeniable facts about the trios history, Venkys history with Rovers and how the club has gone about it. It's on record Waggots statement as having contradictions. Thats hardly unfounded. Then there's the question marks raised with only the tiniest bit of analysis and evaluation. How do you fit 2 sites into 1? There is a list of all requirements for a Cat A academy - how does the new site incorporate all this? This isn't hypothetical what it's but obvious, basic questions about the practicality of the proposal. I mean if I said I was going to be a footballer it wouldn't be unfounded speculation but common sense to ask whether I am actually any good! Speculation is not the same as asking rational, reasonable questions. Sadly this proposal falls down on the latter.

One of the key points needing highlighting is it wouldn't be as damaging for the team (still gutted for the player and devastating for them though) if there was adequate cover. That just compounds the loss for the team. As it is Dack does t have any like for like or similar replacement, in style or quality. And as for Travis he'll have to fight his replacements for space on the treatment table...

Yeah was thinking that too. Well hadn't factored in Elliott but no Dack or Armstrong under TM is terrifying.

Am wrestling with the whole unlucky thing and my conclusion is that we are unlucky but this ill fortune is compounded and more severe for us because of TMs mismanagement. Dack's injury is both gutting and yet not totally surprising. It is unfortunate but had we not been so desperate to get him in the team and in such poor form it was hard to take him of, the chances of this would have been lower. Heck if Gally or Bereton were a bit more of an astute purchase the pressure for Dack's return also would have been lessened. I get there's a lot of what ifs and uncertainty in there, but wherever I look across the team bad luck is compounded by underperforming or crocked players. Warton massively unlucky but when you have the other centre backs you have - you are setting yourself up to fail, there's no safety net for an unfortunate injury. Ditto Travis both in terms of quality and injury prone nature of replacements. And it's the same with the penalties. There's no safety net. Outside of the bad penalty decisions how much did we create? We often don't get going in the first half. Our unluckiness is compounded by our inability. I think injuries may have cost us playoffs this year by a couple of places and points; it's a tough league. It doesn't cost us a death spiral, a bottom half finish and being miles off the playoffs. That's on us. Our misfortune has weakened us but so, so much is self inflicted. On Dack. Gutting. No other words for it really other than to say hope he gets better quickly.

Put it this way, the academy has helped TM out massively. Three of our defenders, our defensive midfield linchpin, JRC and Buckley and prior to that a keeper to replace Steele. Getting rid of a model that has given us this level of success seems a tad dangerous to me even if replaced with something good, which I am far from convinced by.

I think I read Brentford had lost 4 of their last 6 or 7. Either way they have not been in great form of late, and a good time to play them really. And unlucky as we were with the penalities 1 win in 10 is down to more than luck. Time for TM to go. Actually it was time ages ago but still hoping that the unlikely will happen.

Really? What makes it seem so above board? Perhaps it's the trio being involved in a similar scheme at Coventry? Maybe it's the fact that the club didn't mention anything until fans raised it? Perhaps it's the contradictory statements in what Waggot has said? Maybe it's the fact nothing untoward like this has happened under Venkys? Perhaps the level of detail in their plans for the new training place that reassures you? Look, am sure you are a very loyal Rovers fan and a good guy but objectively speaking I struggle to see how you can't be worried. We have form for being mismanaged by Venkys, the Coventry trio have form over this, there are lots of inconsistencies and ommisions from even a cursory glance at the proposals and I don't think anyone can say the manner in which it has been done breeds confidence. Take away your love of the club and put this into any other business situation and see if you would be happy with it. Genuine question - where's the evidence it is legitimate?

Agree. Journalism isn't what it was or should be. It annoys me when so many of.his statements are utterly at odds with reality, it seems harder to report it as is then question. 32 games into journey - I mean who didn't think that deserved a question. Like 'managers don't often get that time' or what happened to the last 2 years?' or 'how come Boro and Barnsley and Reading aren't needing 9 year plans?' I get there is having a positive slant but it seems now that extends to literally changing what reality is.

Yeah, one might have thought Venkys previous negligence (or being taken advantage of if anyone is daft enough to believe that line) and the fact the three Stooges were involved with this at Coventry might give people pause for thought. Add in the contrary statements, trying to sneak it through etc and I struggle to see how you can't be worried. I mean if you saw someone in your garden eying up the back door with his crowbar, and recognised him from the news as being wanted in connection with other burglaries in the area I'm not sure you would accept his protestations of doing some renovation work! And yet in some equally dubious circumstances some fans are all over it. Madness!

Where to start with this? Oh I know, as usual, it's a lie. I'd like to know when Brentford were able to have a positive net spend of £12-15 million over a few years. Or indeed how long ago it was since they started spending that. On a seperate note, engaging with the comment - and it's just a school of thought - but I don't think spunking money on Bereton, Gally and Ayala would really have helped us progress in our transfer ambitions. But of course that can't be TMs fault either. And this Brentford assessing and analysing and getting it right with players - remind me who their goalkeeper is? Every excuse the clown makes is an unintended indictment of his own inadequacy. Totally agree. Immoral and incompetent - sooner he and his mates go the better

Sorry @Revidge Blue you are right. I meant training ground and will edit accordingly. Either way it's a very worrying situation and similarity.

A few things that aren't speculation or hypothetical: 1) The club didn't announce this, the plans were outed by fans. 2) There are contradictions in Waggots statement (for example he both says it's to generate money AND that it will take all money to do the revamp). 3) Venkys have been taken in before. 4) The three people in charge are the three who were there when Coventry sold their training ground. 5) Venkys haven't taken good care of Ewood. 6) Training facilities can be upgraded outside of FFP. Now thats before any speculation or any analysis is applied to the situation. And just from that surface level summary of the situation I think even a neutral observer of those facts would be worried and probably think there's likely something untoward in this.

Thing is most of those injuries aren't a surprise. Lenihen, Williams and Ayala all known for being crocks. As are Holtby and Evans in midfield and to a lesser extent Johnson. None of the above are renowned for their constant availability. Of them 3 were signed by TM and the other 3 have all been at the club for the entity of TMs tenure. He's either signed them or had ample time to ship them out. So it's really a problem utterly of his own making giving us that sort of fitness handicap even before we start.

Good win that keeps the TM glacial journey rolling on. There's a load of positives. Dolan, Gally not being utterly useless when utilised properly and most importantly enough the points that should put all relegation talk to bed. 11 points at this stage of the season is a huge ask for a team to overcome so think we have guaranteed our safety. The negative is it wipes the slate clean and the tombola and tinkering suggest whilst the odd result may go our way we are going nowhere under TM. But I think we all knew that anyway and relegation would have screwed us over even more, so a positive day in a poor season.

Far too sensible. That said I think we will miss Armstrong. We need all the quality we can get.

Great post. Also add in the fact that the training facilities are being sold off too. Not the sign of a normal club. Even under the odious one they didn't try this stunt.

Yep. I think this is what has thrown me into the loath category - he clearly isn't Mr Integrity at all. Lie after lie, Coventry sell the training ground version 2, just as corrupt as all the other chancers we have had. And a crap manager to boot.

Two worrying things about this. Firstly it is groundhog Day. The end of our first season back we heard defenders are coming and yet here we are again - two years later - still needing defenders. Even when he identifies a problem he can't fix it. Embarrassing we aren't further on two years later. Secondly if anything it's a bigger defensive reshuffle. The left back conundrum continues into a 4th season made worse by no scapegoat at right back. Since we haven't got a decent full back in yet the changes of two seem remote. At centre back it's just as perilous. Warton will miss the start of next season leaving only two other senior centre backs. Ayala has managed 9 (?) games for us now so it's optimistic to think he will treble or quadruple this as needed. Again we are short at CB. So that's a minimum of 3 defenders just to function and put out a back line. Good work Tony!

I've a fair few issues with the article. Where to start? Well glibly accepting it takes three years, being kind two years, in the championship before we can start to implement a style? What? Tell that to Barnsley or Cardiff or Reading? Tell that to Hughes or Souness or Big Sam. Remember Stoke home "we've got our Rovers back" - 1 game to start erasing the mess of Ince not two sodding years. As for the King Kenny illustration. Where to start? The good performances before then? Having built a team (not crocks and loans)? Maybe it's his previous success as a manager? Perhaps it's because we hadn't had a death spiral of this magnitude before under him? Maybe it's because it hadn't taken him three years to get to that point? It is the most lazy and surface level of comparisons only. Anyone looking a smidgen beyond those games might just see it is not a like for like or vaguely accurate comparison. It's schoolboy logic. It doesn't stand scrutiny unless you think the up until this season has been a raging success and ignore everything that has happened this season to boot.

History to repeat itself as we grab the 1 win in 11 games Vs Millwall. Ideal opponents for us - mid table so not masses of quality nor scrapping for points. Realise I have a lot of predictions wrong recently but I do see us sneaking this one. Add in we beat Millwall last time by playing absymally and introduced a 4-2-2-2-2-2-2 formation or some other such nonsense that bamboozled Millwall, the Rovers team and us fans alike and I really think the win is on. You know a bit like one of those bobbled shots that is misjudged and somehow goes in. More error than design but we will take 3 points and stay in this league.

You could be right except for that excuse doesn't hold water for a fraction of our players. By fraction I mean a rather big fraction - Lenihen, Williams, Ayala, Evans, Johnson and Holtby. All injury prone before this year and Covid excuses. Add in Dack was a carry on from last season injury wise and it's a poor excuse to hide behind.

Maybe I have been a bit too influenced by his Rovers comments in Kean era. He did tank at a few jobs not just United - in Spain and Sunderland too if memory serves me correctly - so don't think he is that good a manager. Perhaps poor was overly harsh although disagree with the top billing. Regardless of poor or mediocre I would say the point stands that West Ham could have been forgiven for thinking he was a busted flush/not appointed because of his failures but did their homework and appointed him in spite of this, and are reaping the rewards.

Everything he says makes sense - it's all a self preservation, excuse making, propoganda piece. Nothing he says is true or in line with reality (which is what I think you are saying). Which is a very worrying trend and shows how little integrity he actually has.

I think - though I know we don't have it - proper people doing the recruitment is key. Being honest I thought Souness was a busted flush after limited success in his previous few jobs. But he was excellent for 3 and a bit years for us. My point being that sometimes some managers are the right fit for a club. If you have someone smart doing the recruitment then they can perhaps match up some unfashionable or unlikely names who fit well with the club. Another example that springs to mind is Moyes who I think is a poor manager at West Ham. It's clearly a surprisingly good fit and is going well. A good CEO doing recruitment can find these right fits. Sadly we haven't got anyone competent doing the recruitment. Just read about Cook - didn't realise there was a third club Chesterfield he got promoted too. That's more successes than TM in half the amount of time as manager, and no Celtics or Coventry cock ups on his CV either. Another one we could and should have gone for.