[Archived] What Happened To Our Money?

[mark]

We're told JW reads this board so I thought we could let him know the fans thoughts on our lack of investment in a separate thread to save him time. Now we all have great respect for JW so let's keep our messages polite.

I'm not normally one to whinge about our finances and I have never criticised the powers that be, but this transfer window has left me confused and exasperated. Let's put it simply:

- Surely we can assume there was a transfer budget at the beginning of the summer

- On top of this we've sold players to the tune of 20 million (approx)

- We've spent just 10 million (approx)

That's a profit of 10 million and a transfer budget that are left over.

Of course I understand that the books have to be balanced and that we are in a weak position financially. What I do not understand is why just a portion of the 10 million profits and the amount we had budgeted for players cannot be re-invested in fees and wages in order to improve our league position next season. It almost feels as if we don't want to push on.

We are crying out for a top quality midfielder. Even if our current midfielders were fit it would still be our weakest area by some distance. Only a couple of weeks ago word on the board was that we had £5 million for a midfielder and the brief was "the new Tugay". As far as the fans can see fulfilling this brief is critical to the success we will have this season, what happened?

Additionally, we are dragging our heals while on the brink of signing a player of the calibre of Salgado on a free (!). This, too, has to be questioned.

With Sam at the helm and having taken Ewood back I really feel we could push on and get back to the level we were at the season before last. After takin over last season Sam managed to get near European form from the squad we had and while we have added youth we haven't managed to address our main area of weakness. Backing the manager to buy a quality, experienced midfielder could be the difference between us pushing for Europe and fighting it out in the bottom half again.

PLEASE JW - GIVE SAM SOMETHING TO SPEND.

[S15]

Yawn. WE HAVE DEBTS, SO WE PAY THEM OFF.

Those who don't, eventually fall away and die.

[Hasta]

If he does read this board then well done John Williams for the sensible running of our club as well as the steps taken to ensure premier league football is accessible to watch in our local community.

[Big Fat Sam]

I'm sure I saw JW runnings out with a big bag the other day!!!

We've spent it , thats where its gone. no-ones robbing the bank at Rovers.

[Trickstar]

I agree JW is top quality he has kept this club afloat and punching above it's weight for the last 4-5 years. Look what happens to clubs that have spendthrift chairman in charge that just throw good money after bad such as Mike Ashley, Peter Ridsdale etc... The fact of the matter is even if some billionaire investor came in today and invested huge sums of money on players after 3 or 4 years they are going to get bored and the money would stop and unfortunately a club of our size with an average gate of 22-23k per week would not survive and sooner or later we would tumble out of the premiership and into obscurity.

So I say good on JW keeping a good hold of those purse strings we don't need to spend silly amounts of money on overhyped players who would sell their mother for an extra £1k per week

[Cocker]

This

If he does read this board then well done John Williams for the sensible running of our club as well as the steps taken to ensure premier league football is accessible to watch in our local community.

And This

I'm sure I saw JW runnings out with a big bag the other day!!!

We've spent it , thats where its gone. no-ones robbing the bank at Rovers.

Says everything really. Its been over a 100 times so do we need to drag it up again?

[rover6]

If we cut the deadweight costs of squad players that contribute nothing more than what a young reserve player could, then we might be able to spend a little more.

[Dunnfc]

Yawn. WE HAVE DEBTS, SO WE PAY THEM OFF.

Those who don't, eventually fall away and die.

Every club has debts though :S

And most dont always have there transfer fees taken away just like that bar Man.Utd

[Exiled in Toronto]

"Fans demand club doesn't spend money or bank will close us down next week" Right - so if we hadn't had sold RSC, would the shutters have come down and Ewood be empty tomorrow?

It's the chairman's job to balance the books, not the fans'. It's the fans' job to put the pressure on to make the Chairman be creative as possible in earning his wedge, not to give him a free ride.

As I recall, the biggest mistake made by the likes of Charlton, Southampton and Norwich was getting relegated from the premier league because their players weren't good enough. If the manager wants this Real Madrid player then so do I.

[Hasta]

As I recall, the biggest mistake made by the likes of Charlton, Southampton and Norwich was getting relegated from the premier league because their players weren't good enough. If the manager wants this Real Madrid player then so do I.

No. The biggest mistake made by clubs that got relegated, and then found themselves in the financial mire with their futures in jeopardy, was to overspend whilst in the Premier League. This took the clubs to a financial level which couldn't be sustained should they be relegated.

[MeanGreenMachine]

How do you expect to stay in the prem if you sell your best players for large some and replace with cheaper players of a poorer quality? If that trend continues we wont be in the premiership.

[AlanK]

How about the fact he has decided to subsidise ticket prices so only Accrington and Huddersfield are cheaper than us of the entire 92 clubs????????

[adopted scouser]

Irresponsible topic, should be closed. We have the cheapest tickets, one of the lowest gates and still compete at the top level.

Well done John - Ste close this.

[mark]

I'm sure I saw JW runnings out with a big bag the other day!!!

We've spent it , thats where its gone. no-ones robbing the bank at Rovers.

I didn't suggest that, nor am I suggesting we should spend beyond our means. I'm just highlighting that out lack of activity doesn't add up. The money was there, then it was gone. The need to spend a little remains. One decent midfielder hardly turns us into Leeds Utd but could potentially improve our season significantly.

Yes it's been done to death and for good reason. Becasue it's confusing, becasue we care, and becasue we have ambition.

[Boz]

Does it need stating that comments from Sam such as “We have no finances now, we are done”, might just be said following approaches to clubs who think we have £20m sat around following the two major outgoing transfers, and think inflated prices might be made?

[Tim Southampton Rover]

If we spend more than we've got now on just one player, it could mean we will end up missing out on signing anyone in the January transfer window when we will know better about how our team are doing and what's vitual to help achieve our end of season goals.

At the moment we've got Emerton, Dunn, Reid and Grella coming back from injury. Personally I don't see the reason behind spending money we don't have on another midfielder when we've got 4 coming back who will fight to get into the first team. If we find out that they are still injury prone throughout the first half of the season then at least we know we can spend a bit extra in January.

[OJRovers]

I concur that JW does a great job.

However this summer it does seem that the debts/overdraft have been prioritised for cash rather than speculating on new players. To the average fan this looks on the face of it like the money has vanished.

I suspect its been out of JW's hands and more the Trust acting on advice from Rothchilds/The Accountants(PM&M) to clean-up the balance sheet if they are ever to find a buyer for the club.

[BrianPotter]

It would be fantastic for us to go out and spend large sums of money and I can understand the disspointment when we don't, especially with the big money sales of Bentley and RSC in the last 12 months.

However, we have to be realistic as to our clubs position - especially taking into account the current economic climate.

Our biggest problem as a club is generating our own income, gates of 20 -23K with people paying full price would not be enough sustain a top 7 premier league sides expendature, let alone the same number of people paying bottom dollar to attend games as is the case ar Rovers. The difference between what we as a club can generate in turnover (income) and our overheads (expendature) has to be made up from somewhere otherwise we'd end up down the pan. For many years now (including the years after Jacks death - see my post in the takeover thread for factual details) this black hole has been filled by the trustees in the form of dontations, interest free loans and converting debt to share capital. However, people must understand that no matter how wealthy the trustees are it is simply not fesible (or good business practice) to continue writing off the losses the club makes on an ongoing basis. Sooner or later the club has to stand on its own two feet - Jack himself even said this when he was alive.

Now take into account the affect that the current recession has had on the value of the trust - according to the times rich list (which is not entireley accurate) the Walkers took hit of some £300m during the downturn, a massive amount to lose. Yes a chunk of this is probably only on paper, but with the way things are currently with the lack for borrowing facilities available the trust is probably stretched to its absolute maximum in terms of liquid cash available. Remember, there are a huge number of companies in the trusts portfolio, not just Rovers. Many of these companies (like Rovers) were probably running off overdrafts and loans from banks etc. Suddenly these facilites are withdrawn or removed which means that the Trust has to find a way around this (ultimateley by providing the capital itself). The financial position of the trust as whole determines whether it can make money available to Rovers (and other business that it controls).

As I have also said before, the problem for Rovers when buying players is not raising the transfer fee - its paying the players wages after he's signed. The ratio of our wage bill to turnover is already way to high, bringing in players at £7m a time is only going to make this worse, somethign which JW and the board have said cannot happen, and rightly so. If you had £1m in the bank but an income of £1000 per month would you go and spend the £1m on buying house where the monthly upkeep and bills were £4000 a month. No, because you'd be losing £3000 a month. Its exactly the same here.

Basically, the only way we can improve our spending power is improve our income - something which is very difficult, especially for a small club like Rovers.

Although its frustrating our club is on a secure financial footing and should be around for us to support for many years to come.

[waynerovers]

I'd much rather the club paid off its debts when it can rather than gamble away all the transfer money. Theres no guarantee that where gonna buy another player for 3 million and sell him for 18. We're one of the best run clubs for a reason

[braddock]

Well done John Williams. We have every faith in you to look after our club and not jeopardising our future spending money unnecessarily. Plenty of fans understand that debts have to be paid off and wages have to be paid and it isn't always possible to speculate to accumulate as the pitfalls of this backfiring are potentially devastating to the club and the very fans demanding more money being spent. I genuinely believe we have the best chairman in the premiership and the right manager to preserve our premiership status. The signings made this season have been more than adequate and I for one am enthusiastic for the coming season. Looking at the teams in our division we have the quality to finish at least 12th and will naturally look to finish above this through hard work and good management.i would much rather have a gradual improvement, year by year, as this is safer for the club. we have also seen in the past that pending large amounts of money does not guarantee quality. Let's keep building and in the next three or four years hopefully we may have some form of european qualification, however i for one am more than satisfied to consolidate until we find some investment, as long as that may take.

Close this thread, it is pointless and has been discussed for far too long away from this topic as it is.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The clubs financial stability has to come first and foremost....the dimmest supporter must be a able to see that.

Although as Sam appears he is trying to ask today in the LET,it would be nice for the board to push the boat out a bit now and again.

Dont agree with the thread title either....far too provocotive and misleading.

[JonnyH]

I think you've answered all your own questions in your openning post mate. Balancing books, under writing season tickets 6 new players complete with wages and associated fees. What more do we want!??

[LeChuck]

If we had kept Roque, would Sam have been forced to sell £10 million worth of players without being allowed to spend a penny. If not, would be have been in any financial danger?

Two genuine questions, I'm intrigued.

[RoyRover]

If we had kept Roque, would Sam have been forced to sell £10 million worth of players without being allowed to spend a penny. If not, would be have been in any financial danger?

Two genuine questions, I'm intrigued.

That's what I've been asking myself. If City had decided to pull out of the Santa Cruz transfer, because of his injury problems and Olympiakos had decided that £3 million was a bit steep for Derbyshire, what would have happened to the club? Money has obviously been used from the sale of players to pay of debts, but would other players have needed to be sold if these two didn't go? And do we basically live from season to season, where debts are cleared at the start of the season, when a big player is sold and then accumulated again through the rest of the season, when another player has to be sold? Again, I'm genuinely curious and is honest question.

[unluckymorton]

www.brfcs.co.uk stands for BRFC SUPPORTERS.

Now I agree everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is a SUPPORTERS website, for supports run by supporters. Can we please stop having a go at the way the club is being run and try to get behind the lads & the club and SUPPORT them?

Our season ticket prices have been slashed, the board have backed Big Sam as far as they can and let him do business his way and we are as financially stable as a club of our size can possibly be. Surely that's something to be proud of rather that slating every move the club has made?

Credit to John Williams and the board and credit to Big Sam. Lets all look forward to a good season ahead with the usual highs and lows that we've all craved for every summer.