[Archived] euro12 thread

[Exiled_Rover]

So you don't think saying you have no interest on the tournament just because England are out is arrogant?

I have no interest in football outside of Blackburn. Does that make me arrogant too?

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Hadrian's wall of course being the brain child of foreign invaders...

Indeed. They could invade England but knew it would be foolish to try and do it to Scotland.

[MarkBRFC71]

No pal

It must have been me? Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks him overrated though reading some of the posts here. I do think he did OK in the group games but last night was shown up by a true world class player in Pirlo, although to be fair his legs had totally gone after an hour and he should have been subbed.

Still maintain he's never really done anything for England when it's mattered, and it was Alonso who made him look his best at Liverpool - he's never been the same player since Xabi left.

Unfortunately I think he's symptomatic of England's problem - our coaching set up throughout the game is geared up to find he next Gerrard, when we should be looking for the next Xavi or Pirlo if we ever want to get back into the top bracket of national sides.

Sadly I think Rooney is another who looks good at club level but is just average internationally.

[Majiball]

They are a lot of ###### around here who think England are up there with Spain and Germany. Makes it more fun to argue, though

Shearer had me in stitches last night saying England are just 5-6th in the world and then said they are behind Spain, Italy, germany, portugal. Guess Brazil, Argentina, etc etc don't count.

You'd struggle to make my top ten.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Shearer had me in stitches last night saying England are just 5-6th in the world and then said they are behind Spain, Italy, germany, portugal. Guess Brazil, Argentina, etc etc don't count.

You'd struggle to make my top ten.

In order at the moment imo - Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Portugal, France, Holland (top tier)

England, Uruguay, Croatia, Russia, Chile, Denmark, Ghana, Ivory Coast (2nd tier)

Special mention to Zambia they have been quality to watch for the last 2 African Cup of Nations. We definitely need to sign Christopher and Felix Katongo. And their manager.

England are the best of the rest imo. And Shearer is an absolute clown anyway. I would consider them pretty strong favourites against any other team who are not in that top tier. Although I would argue that those teams have more of a chance of beating England than England have of beating a top side. So for me they are the 9th best country in the world. As for Scotland, 20-25.

[thenodrog]

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html

http://www.fifa.com/...able/index.html

Scotland 20-25? Now whose bulling their national side up to a ludicrous level?

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I don't like to go by the world rankings. If you look again at that list England are 6th, Italy 12th, Ireland ahead of teams like Ghana, Czech Republic and even Poland who are 62nd. If I remember correctly USA spent a few years a while ago in about 5th place. I could be wrong about that one.

Tbh I am cheating in putting Scotland 20-25 as I am considering them under a half decent manager as opposed to Craig Levein.

[jim mk2]

In order at the moment imo - Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Portugal, France, Holland (top tier)

. As for Scotland, 20-25.

Um, Holland went out of Euro 2012 without a point so how does that compute ?

According to the latest world rankings (pre-Euro 2012), Spain are No 1 in the world from Uruguay (not even on your radar), in second and Germany third. England are sixth, one place behind Brazil, with Argentina seventh and little Denmark (about same population as Scotland) in ninth.

Meanwhile, the mighty Scots are in 41st place.

Keep trying

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Um, Holland went out of Euro 2012 without a point so how does that compute ?

According to the latest world rankings (pre-Euro 2012), Spain are No 1 in the world from Uruguay (not even on your radar), in second and Germany third. England are sixth, one place behind Brazil, with Argentina seventh and little Denmark (about same population as Scotland) in ninth.

Meanwhile, the mighty Scots are in 41st place.

Keep trying

I have just said I care little about the World Rankings. I watch teams then form an opinion of how good these teams are myself. Uruguay just won the Copa America after reaching the World Cup semi final which is why their 2nd.....for me that doesn't make them better than Brazil or Argentina. Not yet anyway. I believe they are about the 10th best team in the world, still pretty high. They are arguably better than England despite having a population 1/15th of it's size. My list of 8 teams that I called the top tier also considered recent achievements over the past say 10 or so years in tournaments which is why I did not include Uruguay.

Yes Holland just lost all 3 games. Although according to that list, they were all against teams in the top 9 in the world. Losing all three games is bad for any side, let alone the Dutch, but there is not much shame in losing to Portugal and Germany, and Denmark finished above Portugal in qualifying. Holland also just reached a World Cup final, beating Brazil along the way. Denmark do have a similar population to Scotland, so do Croatia and Uruguay, so maybe Scotland should be a bit better at the moment as those teams are.

But our last 2 managers (Levein and before that George Burley) have been, on the whole, pretty shocking so I am not surprised that we are so low on that list. God we even just lost 5-1 to USA (no offence) in a friendly although from what I saw Jermaine Jones was bossing it. After that game we went up 5 places in the rankings I believe. Before that under Walter Smith and Alex McLeish, I think 16th was the highest we reached. In fact, at one point England were just one place ahead and a win against Croatia would have seen us overtake them but we only drew 1-1. But like I said I don't care too much about the rankings though and I still would have considered England obviously better. What about you? For arguments sake at that time or any time if Scotland were ahead of England in the official rankings would you consider them a better side?

I doubt there is any Scottish person worldwide who considers them that good of a team but our population is pretty small. Although Uruguay, Ireland, Bosnia, Wales, Slovenia and Croatia are sides ahead of us on that list with a smaller population. Similarly, there are countries on that list with a larger population that we are ahead of although there are many factors to consider such as infrastructure etc and whether they even play football. But for the last 20 years or so Scotland have not produced the standard of players that they have previously as I'm sure you will be able to attest to.

[T4E]

I have no interest in football outside of Blackburn. Does that make me arrogant too?

It makes it strange that you're posting on this thread.....

[Mattyblue]

Not sure what it makes them to be honest T4E.

I for one can actually watch the coverage without the clowns on TV bigging England up every 5 minutes. But saying that I will miss Gabriel Clark's soft focus interviews with Ashley Cole et al

'Ash, what's it like being as good as you?'

[DE.]

Is it 10 years now since England last beat a 'big' nation in a major tournament? I'm thinking Argentina in 2002.

[A cup of beans]

http://www.football-italia.net/20359/pirlo-why-i-chipped-hart

Pirlo: 'Why I chipped Hart'

By Football Italia staff

Andrea Pirlo reveals why he decided an audacious chip in the penalty shoot-out against England. “It put pressure on them.”

The Italy midfielder scored with a sensational lob to beat Joe Hart in the 4-2 shoot-out victory.

“At the moment I saw the goalkeeper making strange movements, so I waited for him to move and hit it like that.

“It was easier for me to chip it at that stage. Maybe my effort put some pressure on England and in fact Ashley Young missed the next one after me.

“I didn’t fear an upset, as England barely created anything, just tried to defend the result and drag us to penalties. We stayed in control and in the end won out.

“We knew that we could control the match, as England are a very defensive team and we saw that from the way they played throughout the group phase. It’s just a shame we took this long to beat them and used up a lot of energy.

“We dominated the encounter and it’s a pity we didn’t take our chances during the 90 minutes or extra time. At least the penalties sent the right team through.

“Mario Balotelli worked hard and helped his teammates. He made a few mistakes when finishing, but he has the quality and will improve.”

Italy now face Germany in the Euro 2012 semi-final on Thursday evening.

“Of course we were thinking about Germany, as we knew they would be our opponents if we qualified, but now we have to concentrate and recuperate in time for Thursday.

“Is anything possible? Of course, that’s why we’re here.”

[Audax]

In order at the moment imo - Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Portugal, France, Holland (top tier)

England, Uruguay, Croatia, Russia, Chile, Denmark, Ghana, Ivory Coast (2nd tier)

Special mention to Zambia they have been quality to watch for the last 2 African Cup of Nations. We definitely need to sign Christopher and Felix Katongo. And their manager.

England are the best of the rest imo. And Shearer is an absolute clown anyway. I would consider them pretty strong favourites against any other team who are not in that top tier. Although I would argue that those teams have more of a chance of beating England than England have of beating a top side. So for me they are the 9th best country in the world. As for Scotland, 20-25.

Top Tier: Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands, Brazil, I guess Uruguay.

I would not put France in and seeing how Uruguay was a semifinalist in the World Cup, okay, Holland knocked Brazil out but Uruguay still won the 2011 Copa America, Wikipedia article for some reason doesn't come out but they did win it and won it in Argentina: http://en.wikipedia....opa_América . It is unfortunate Croatia did not advance, the groups were A and D respectfully were not that strong and B and C were real strong. Denmark and Croatia may have advanced if in groups A or D. But France was disappointing.

2nd Tier: no particular order, Argentina, Croatia, France, England, Russia, Denmark, Ivory Coast

Argentina really need ot have a big game and at the same time, I'd have to think Argentina has some of the best players in their selection with of course, one of the best players ever in Messi. Argentina have some sort of a problem, not sure what it is, they have had problems defeating some of the other South American countries. Argentina are the ones though you would not want to have in your group at a tournament, so I am a bit unsure here.

------------

To other things:

Germany will look to end their winless run against Italy in major tournaments when the two meet in Thursday's Euro 2012 semi-final.

The Germans have failed to beat Italy in seven previous attempts at major tournaments, the most recent being a 2-0 loss after extra-time at the 2006 World Cup.

It's a run which has seen Germany taste victory just seven times in 30 fixtures and they are without success in 17 years, a run stretching back to 1995.

http://www.soccerway...ermany-v-italy/

I think they said that despite Italy having the one Euro Cup Championship ('68), it sounded like the announcers said they have only lost a handful of games ever at the Euro tournament.

For the other:

But with Ronaldo on the other side, Del Bosque knows that Spain's possession style could play into the hands of Portugal, as it did when they handed Spain their biggest defeat since 1950 with a 4-0 friendly win in Lisbon in 2010. http://www.soccerway...rtugal-v-spain/

That is interesting that Portugual somehow did beat Spain by such a lopsided manner. Of course, that was in no tournament and a mere friendly.

---------------------

Lastly, I certainly get disappointed in Rooney but I'm not insulting of him. It seems now this is about 3 straight tournaments where he has been underpar.

[HemelRover]

Uruguay just won the Copa America after reaching the World Cup semi final which is why their 2nd.....for me that doesn't make them better than Brazil or Argentina.

Erm, yes it does. They played better and got further in the 2010 World Cup than both teams and then went on to win the COPA America. If that doesn't make them a better team then I don't know what does?

[Tom]

What Pirlo said is what I said in another thread, it totally changed the mindset of the shootout and spooked our guys

Hart deserved to look a bit foolish after his daft attempts at mind games

[jim mk2]

I have just said I care little about the World Rankings. I watch teams then form an opinion of how good these teams are myself. Uruguay just won the Copa America after reaching the World Cup semi final which is why their 2nd.....for me that doesn't make them better than Brazil or Argentina.

I'll stick to the official world rankings thanks.

I hope your interpretation of history of better than your analysis of football.

[joey_big_nose]

Erm, yes it does. They played better and got further in the 2010 World Cup than both teams and then went on to win the COPA America. If that doesn't make them a better team then I don't know what does?

Well put!

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Is it 10 years now since England last beat a 'big' nation in a major tournament? I'm thinking Argentina in 2002.

Yes in the group stages. 1966 was the last time in a knockout round.

That is interesting that Portugual somehow did beat Spain by such a lopsided manner. Of course, that was in no tournament and a mere friendly.

Yea 4-0 to Portugal and this happened at 0-0. Nani is such a ######.

Erm, yes it does. They played better and got further in the 2010 World Cup than both teams and then went on to win the COPA America. If that doesn't make them a better team then I don't know what does?

Like I said, "My list of 8 teams that I called the top tier also considered recent achievements over the past say 10 or so years in tournaments which is why I did not include Uruguay." These so called top tier nations are normally there or there abouts at tournaments, usually at least in the quarters, but semis and finals as well. Not always though as usually at least one has a bad tournament like Holland this time or Italy and France last time. Uruguay won the Copa America which is fair enough and had a pretty tough group in the World Cup which included the hosts, France and I think Mexico, but they beat South Korea and Ghana in the knockout stages before losing to Holland. No disrespect meant and I'm sure they were far from easy games but I hold more weight to knockout wins against the top sides as the luck of the draw can be kind.

[Mattyblue]

But Uruguay are CURRENTLY the top side in South America, yes?

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Indeed. They could invade England but knew it would be foolish to try and do it to Scotland.

For someone who "studied history" at uni your knowledge of such is at best sketchy. At time of Hadrain their was no Scotland or England, infact the habitants of 1AD "Scotland" have little in common with medievel Scots & modern day Scots.

[American Rover12]

If you think that just because you won the last major tourney you're the top team in that region until the next major tourney (~ 2-4 years) then we will always have to agree to disagree. No one was saying Greece was the best European team in 2005.

[Mattyblue]

Man City are the 'best' because they won, that's professional sport, otherwise it's completely subjective.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

But Uruguay are CURRENTLY the top side in South America, yes?

Yes but I wasn't really considering that. Rather the countries that usually go far in tournaments. After Greece won the Euros I didn't consider them one of the elite sides. That might sound ridiculous but at the end of the day it is still a knockout tournament that requires you to win 5/6 games, potentially less with penalty shootouts

For someone who "studied history" at uni your knowledge of such is at best sketchy. At time of Hadrain their was no Scotland or England, infact the habitants of 1AD "Scotland" have little in common with medievel Scots & modern day Scots.

Who said what history I studied. It was modern history

Man City are the 'best' because they won, that's professional sport, otherwise it's completely subjective.

Completely different. Man City came top of a 38 game league. There are only knockout tournaments in international football but winning 4/5/6/7 games does not always necessarily make you the best team. If you won the World Cup by knocking out Germany, Italy then Brazil or whatever then maybe you can.

[Mattyblue]

Same as the Champions League then?