[Archived] Meeting With The Club.

[DE.]

Just now, RV Blue said:

And that is why saying 'short term loan' would have sufficed. It is bad enough as it is without having to make stuff up.

Have you thought about e-mailing Twitter to demand an apology from Mark that would appear on every person's feed? Maybe include a youtube video of Mark being publicly flogged and made to apologise in tears? I appreciate it wouldn't completely erase his heinous crime, but it would go some way towards lessening the stain. 

[RV Blue]

Just now, DE. said:

Have you thought about e-mailing Twitter to demand an apology from Mark that would appear on every person's feed? Maybe include a youtube video of Mark being publicly flogged and made to apologise in tears? I appreciate it wouldn't completely erase his heinous crime, but it would go some way towards lessening the stain. 

Are you alright?

[DE.]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Are you alright?

Yes, but then I haven't been complaining about the difference between payday and emergency loans for the last 5 hours or so.

[RV Blue]

Just now, DE. said:

Yes, but then I haven't been complaining about the difference between payday and emergency loans for the last 5 hours or so.

Am I not alowed to point out that something isn't true on BRFCClique.com because your mate said it? If people keep replying to me, I will reply back.

[DE.]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Am I not alowed to point out that something isn't true on BRFCClique.com because your mate said it? If people keep replying to me, I will reply back.

You're allowed to do whatever you want. Carry on chief.

[AggyBlue]

Just now, DE. said:

Yes, but then I haven't been complaining about the difference between payday and emergency loans for the last 5 hours or so.

He's boring, his agenda is deflection, deflection of the cold hard facts and the crisis we face as a club. Is he a stooge?

Just put him on ignore

[Neal]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

I can accept your point of view, your boycott stance and I can full empathise with the anger.

I cannot accept your slants at PB, or anyone for thinking differently! That's the point. I'm not trying to make you think my way, I'm saying that the "shat in your shoe" comment is just not acceptable, and thus harms any real discussion you might put forward

 

Bloody hell JB, way you're going on you'd think i'd have assaulted the guy. It was a p*ssed off comment based on the fact that are fans that feel sorry for those cretins in charge. It wasn't personal, if you'd have made the post i'd be quoting you instead.

[RV Blue]

Just now, DE. said:

You're allowed to do whatever you want. Carry on chief.

Oh I will do.

Just now, AggyBlue said:

He's boring, his agenda is deflection, deflection of the cold hard facts and the crisis we face as a club. Is he a stooge?

Just put him on ignore

Yes, I'm a stooge for pointing out a barefaced lie...

[K-Hod]

However it's dressed up or whatever name we want to refer to it by, we're borrowing money to keep afloat at high interest rates, but we've no money to buy our own players. We have to borrow players from other teams or ones not good enough for other teams.

It's pathetic, shambolic and a totally unprofessional way to run a football club.

As much as I'm happy to accept the views of others, I find it flabbergasting reading some of the stuff since the meeting and from seasoned posters who know everything about Venky's but play dumb and act as if the only thing at play here is what happens on a Saturday at 3pm.

[cesus]

The real fun will start soon enough with poor season ticket sales, when our credit isn't good enough for short term high interest loans. We all know our playing assets have all but gone, ticket sales will invariably drop again who would even lend cash to these owners with their absolute distain for the club.

[TBTF]

33 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

That is about loans for individuals, not organisations. You could possibly say payday loans are a (extreme) type of short-term loan, but for Mark Fish to assume that Cheston was refering to payday loans when he said short-term loans is utterly ridiculous.

Short term loans, pay day loans-it doesn't matter what they area called. Our so called billionaire owners are letting us pay daft interest rates to keep the Club running rather than using their own money any more. THATS THE FRIGHTENING THING> THE TAP HAS BEEN TURNED OFF< THERE IS NO MORE>

FFS guys wake up those that keep defending it as ''optimistic'',

[Neal]

Put all the supporters season ticket money in an escrow account with conditions.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, K-Hod said:

However it's dressed up or whatever name we want to refer to it by, we're borrowing money to keep afloat at high interest rates, but we've no money to buy our own players. We have to borrow players from other teams or ones not good enough for other teams.

It's pathetic, shambolic and a totally unprofessional way to run a football club.

As much as I'm happy to accept the views of others, I find it flabbergasting reading some of the stuff since the meeting and from seasoned posters who know everything about Venky's but play dumb and act as if the only thing at play here is what happens on a Saturday at 3pm.

It is called denial. Patti Hearst would be proud....Think of it as "Stockport"syndrome. Not even worthy of Nordic noir!

I despair....

[MCMC1875]

42 minutes ago, duggy9197 said:

A loan is a loan how ever you dress it up,we have billionaire owners and some fan is argueing over how to name the loan,what is a disgrace that they are making the club ask for these loans in the 1st place.

A sure sign that Venkys have turned off the tap.

[Dunnfc]

The issue of the loans draws many questions, very brave question to ask in a meeting like that but it was required nevertheless as answers or confirmation over these arrangements have hardly been forthcoming nor even uttered, also most people need to appreciate the broader spectrum of the supporters ability to be able to read accounts and possibly understand certain situations so by discussing it on a openish platform like that Mike Cheston no doubt would have had the perfect opportunity to explain in layman’s terms to the “Generic” type of BRFC supporter. Did his answers satisfy?

To qualify things from what I’ve read about last night and certain supporters whom attended the consensus appears as set out below;

• Why is there a continuing requirement for both VLL & BRFC to loan monies too evidently then be used as “Working Capital”? I believe Cheston retorted along the lines of most businesses do this which is indeed incorrect in my view to say, most businesses don’t borrow 5 million (FA) @9.5% +Libor 4.5 million (Unknown) @ 14% + Libor, 1.8 million x 2 (Future season tickets sold x 2) to fund day-today activities @8% +Libor, those that do from my experience are under significant cash flow strains and severe financial danger and have exhausted all potential avenues elsewhere.

• Why didn’t the club exercise or renegotiate with a Barclays or SBOI, the SBOI rate of interest (2.75%) is 0.5% lower than the Walker agreement with Barclays which was 3.25%. Taking loans of 14+ % before Libor (another 2/2.5%) is DANGER territory that suggests main stream banking institions such as normal banks don’t want to lend. Why would they to an insolvent debt riddled club going backwards? It means the SBOI don’t want to lend anymore too which is evident in 2016 accounts whereby the debt doesn’t move, goes down 2 million in fact, appears the bank have stopped funding, the land in question which is secured against is listed the VH AGM notes as interestingly enough BRFC is now becoming a strain on the main groups credit reporting, bank have secured land on the loans to date whilst the club pays 1.7 million interest. Fair play to Mike after selling 40 million of assets in 18 months one of the lads told me he claimed “He couldn’t take all the credit for financial improvements”. Bizarre and bold statement to make.

• Blackburn Rovers “The Club” despite all the debts are in a very safe place, why? PCG’s are issued/in place. SBOI would never lend the club that sort of money, nor VLL which is basically just a Shell company to pass through to Venketshwra Hatcheries Pvt India. If the club went into administration tomorrow the danger isn’t liquidation because the club can’t pay the monies, it’s escaping as a pre-pack sale or CVA agreement as Venkys would have more than 75% of the creditors vote. BUT do they really? Breaking down the balance sheet is where the clues to the trail continue;

1. £87,257,500 Million owed to Parent Undertaking, is this a loan from SBOI to VHPL to VLL then to BRFC, meaning the true creditor in the event of a guarantee called in would be VHPL, not exactly going to stop by Blackburn.

2. £14,179,836 Million as the overdraft, confirmed in the accounts as guaranteed by VHPL not VLL but the Indian Mothership, in the event of admin it won’t be poor BRFC’s door they knock at but in Pune.

3. £4,277,621 Million in trade creditors. With 2.5Mill football creditors.

4. £2,531,293 Million in Social Security and Taxes

5. £2,131,191 – Other Loans

6. £1,750,612 – Deferred Income Accrual

7. Total £112,228,053 Less Listed assets £34,794,610 Produces your Liabilities of £71, 599,413. Look at the breakdown above how many of those “Liabilities” disappear under the parent guarantee about 90% which would make the bank SBOI almost have an equal say in administration than Venkys, who’s the trade creditors going to vote in favour off between those two?

• Now to borrow roughly 1.8 million less 200k in interest payments against that particular loan gives you 1.6million in the bank, the interest for 2016 accounts was quite similar to this figure, so basically the club is strangling itself and being deprived of future revenues to pay not just interest on short term loans, but interests on all loans and overdrafts as stated in VLL & BRFC sets of accounts. Carry on with this strategy and the finances will contract and there will be no future movement unless serious cash gets injected.

• Interestingly enough there UK business ventures with other partners are also struggling to take off.

Isn't Andy Neil an accountant, what's his opinion on matters? He'd probably know best tbh.

[Dunnfc]

Post Limit!

After hearing the news of entering administration cannot be not guaranteed and could happen in 18months from a post on here then I think given season tickets are mortgaged, you all need to be aware and pay via a credit card as you will get consumer payment protection on your purchases, something you wouldn't have if paying cash/debit card etc. I don't know the terms of the mortgaging of season tickets but if they've been sold to a ticketus (Octupus Investments) then they actually own the tickets and as such if administration came, Rangers fans got some of there ST's annulled and became a creditor, if that happened and you paid via credit card you'd be re-imbursed.

[JBiz]

54 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

However it's dressed up or whatever name we want to refer to it by, we're borrowing money to keep afloat at high interest rates, but we've no money to buy our own players. We have to borrow players from other teams or ones not good enough for other teams.

It's pathetic, shambolic and a totally unprofessional way to run a football club.

As much as I'm happy to accept the views of others, I find it flabbergasting reading some of the stuff since the meeting and from seasoned posters who know everything about Venky's but play dumb and act as if the only thing at play here is what happens on a Saturday at 3pm.

That's not what is happening. You said it yourself, the clubs being run in a shambolic way that all of us can see starkly, the difference is - my view of the current scenario is MY VIEW, much like anybody else's is their own.

Not being able to accept that someone might feel Cheston is merely one of many "messengers" to be shot at instead of the owners? That's flabbergasting.

Ill buy you a pint later and help you see the point Khod....  

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, Jbizzle said:

Then you will constantly put people off standing next to you to protest, when you cannot accept that others will not always see things your way.

Not just you that speaks your mind is it!

You say that as if you'd be interested in protesting, if only Neal didn't say what he thought.

In other words, your will to protest is weak anyway.

[JBiz]

Just now, Mike E said:

You say that as if you'd be interested in protesting, if only Neal didn't say what he thought.

In other words, your will to protest is weak anyway.

I prefer to make decisions based on my own opinion. Neals words would only have an impact if I was on the fence about joining in.

At current, there is only Neals intentions that make sense to me- making this a fans vs FA across the country is the way forward. He knows I've applauded that.

Id happily march, pledge and join in those - but unfortunately this "Cheston/Senior/Pasha out" crap just keeps bringing the whole thing to a place that I can't get involved with! Especially at games, under a manager I have faith in whilst dangling from a precipice! 

And thus, you can see why I hate to see someone who makes a difference resort to putting down another viewpoint. That is what the discussion centred on, not my will to protest!

[Athlete]

3 hours ago, AAK said:

What was the slideshow about? I just didn't get it, it was pointless, especially the bar chart showing how many games Lenihan had played lol WTF!

A couple of times I think Senior knew Cheston wouldn't know what to say and therefore answered the question.

Probably cos senior has the patter of the car sales man that a financial director won't have 

[Gav]

Just now, Mike E said:

You say that as if you'd be interested in protesting, if only Neal didn't say what he thought.

In other words, your will to protest is weak anyway.

His will to protest is non-existent.

Nothing wrong with that by the way, unless you constantly talk the talk but never actually walk the walk in any guise spun in any direction to fit argument.  

[JBiz]

Just now, Gav said:

His will to protest is non-existent.

Nothing wrong with that by the way, unless you constantly talk the talk but never actually walk the walk in any guise spun in any direction to fit argument.  

Again, the point made has nothing to do with me and will to protest. I don't come here to talk about what I've done, pat myself on the back - don't assume that doesn't mean I'm ready to stand up for things that matter.

Poor form, Gav.

[Neal]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

I prefer to make decisions based on my own opinion. Neals words would only have an impact if I was on the fence about joining in.

 

 

Bloody hell, their piles must be hurrendous after sitting on that fence for 7 years. 

[JBiz]

Just now, Neal said:

 

 

Bloody hell, their piles must be hurrendous after sitting on that fence for 7 years. 

Ha! I don't think it is as simple as that, but there are plenty who would find it difficult to accept being shouted down because they won't wear a certain badge. That's a metaphor by the way, but pertinent because some of the badges/logos and intentions of the protests are not going to sit with everybody, despite 99.9% of fans agreeing with the overall message; This ownership has totally screwed this club up.

[Gav]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

Again, the point made has nothing to do with me and will to protest. I don't come here to talk about what I've done, pat myself on the back - don't assume that doesn't mean I'm ready to stand up for things that matter.

Poor form, Gav.

Jbizzle you constantly berate protestors, unless I'm mistaken you're doing it in these very pages, nothing wrong with that, but your hypocrisy reaches the point where it needs addressing.

You don't protest, that's fine, but don't try and pull the wool over our eyes by claiming you do.

Be comfortable in your own skin, no need to try and impress here.