Premier League

[Mattyblue]

Half the league has turned into the likes of Fulham and Brentford.

😴

[47er]

Fulham and Rovers were neck and neck a few years ago but look at them now. They have a billionaire owner but so do we!

Their new stand, which has a setting directly looking down at the Thames is the last word in Luxury. Cost £100M and membership starts at £3000 a season but most holders are paying much more..

We can't even keep Ewood Park clean.

We are left behind like rubbish.

Edited yesterday at 11:56 by 47er

[chaddyrovers]

Fulham, Brentford and Brighton fully deserved to in the PL and they should be

The Champions League format can't/won't be change of the power of bigger clubs but UEFA don't want that change either. I would prefer it straight knock out competition over 2 legs but never going to happened. 

The cups winners should be in their own version of European cup competition and the runner ups of the competitions should qualify for Europe not revert to the league position.  

[Mattyblue]

You really are Captain Obvious at the moment.

Yes, I’m quite aware that Brentford deserve to be in the PL, a very well run football club.

However, for me, *personally* (I.e this is a forum for opinions, not just stating facts) I would like a better geographic spread in the top division, if that’s ok with you?

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You really are Captain Obvious at the moment.

Yes, I’m quite aware that Brentford deserve to be in the PL, a very well run football club.

However, for me, *personally* (I.e this is a forum for opinions, not just stating facts) I would like a better geographic spread in the top division, if that’s ok with you?

my reply wasn't towards you Matty! 

The European competitions need a small revamp and what they are actually about. When you are knock out of one of competition you shouldn't enter another one

Edited yesterday at 11:25 by chaddyrovers

[jim mk2]

Go back to the old European Cup, European Cup-winners Cup and Uefa Cup

All 3 of them prestigious knockout competitions with no leagues

Won't happen of course because TV money needs more games and TV money talks 

 

[roversfan99]

The Premier League has been terrible this season. The champions and the bottom 3 all sorted with so many games to go has removed any sort of spectacle.

We are just in a position where teams go up and come straight back down with really low points totals. The likes of Fulham, Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton will be probably comfortable for the forseeable with the same teams yoyo-ing between Premier League and Championship.

You then have a pyramid that is also fucked, desperately chasing the latest increased sky deal, constantly increasing ticket prices and willingly inconvenicing fans yet losing more and more money year on year despite this with the money all landing in the pockets of the players and agents.

[speeeeeeedie]

16 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Liverpool fans booing a player leaving them for a bigger club.

They really are scum.

There were a few other fan reactions that made me laugh this weekend. 

Southampton fans celebrating like they'd won the league after securing a lucky 0-0 draw against City. Followed by Leicester fans taunting Forest after the match finished 2-2 and put a serious dent in Forest's Champs League chances.

Both teams got relegated. Shouldn't they keep quiet? 

[Mattyblue]

To be to Leicester fans they do see Forest as their local rivals, so why not have a bit of craic on a sunny afternoon away from home.

[simongarnerisgod]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The Premier League has been terrible this season. The champions and the bottom 3 all sorted with so many games to go has removed any sort of spectacle.

We are just in a position where teams go up and come straight back down with really low points totals. The likes of Fulham, Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton will be probably comfortable for the forseeable with the same teams yoyo-ing between Premier League and Championship.

You then have a pyramid that is also fucked, desperately chasing the latest increased sky deal, constantly increasing ticket prices and willingly inconvenicing fans yet losing more and more money year on year despite this with the money all landing in the pockets of the players and agents.

the three that went up and came straight back down did so because they were far to open and tried to out play superior opponents,there was no plan to grind out games and thus they were all cut apart in 75% of the games they played in

st vincent kompanies burnley were a case in question,it`s absolute folly to try and outpass a superior footballing side,you will lose every week and when you start losing that badly ,it`s very hard to turn it round

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

the three that went up and came straight back down did so because they were far to open and tried to out play superior opponents,there was no plan to grind out games and thus they were all cut apart in 75% of the games they played in

st vincent kompanies burnley were a case in question,it`s absolute folly to try and outpass a superior footballing side,you will lose every week and when you start losing that badly ,it`s very hard to turn it round

The 3 teams that have come up this season are all going down in embarassing fashion because none have anywhere near enough quality to compete.

The gap between Premier League and Championship is as big as it ever has been, the whole pyramid is fucked financially. Southampton are celebrating getting to 12 points. Ipswich signed quite a few top players at Championship level and have been miles off 

[chaddyrovers]

the quality of the mid table teams has improved over recent years and the amount they will spend on transfers. Teams coming up like Ipswich and Burnley are spending big money but not on proven PL quality. Ipswich spend big on Delap and its worked out for him and he will move to bigger club, rumours are Manchester United move now. Ipswich have build a squad that should win the Championship next season. Leicester losing their head coach and appoint Cooper but limited spending. Southampton spent alot also but there approach seem a scattering gun approach to transfers. Will be interesting to see Who Leicester and Southampton appoint as their new head coach for the championship campaign. 

not sure the whole pyramid is fucked as suggested either but clubs spent more than previous and with more foreign owners and they want success and quick, and will try spend to get that. It was only 4 years ago that Stockport County were in the national league and winning that league, now possibly 2 games of being a Championship club again. Barrow AFC having the success they have in recent years or Salford under the class of the 92 until the last 5 years when they have been stuck in league 2 and can't get promotion. Now been takeover by Neville and Beckham with a few businessman to rebuild and invest more into the club to get promotion and get the championship. Think were they were before the class of 92 bought them

[roversfan99]

Of course the pyramid is fucked. Its not just ambitious teams looking for quick success that are showing big losses, basically every team is. We are unambitious and not arsed about success and we show big losses. TV deals grow bigger, fans become less important, ticket prices go up yet the losses get higher and higher.

This will be the second season in a row where all 3 promoted teams have come down and none of them have been competitive. This has to be up there with the worst Premier League seasons ever.

The fact that Ipswich spent so much and yet the conclusion was that they have spent to build a really strong Championship side in the following season shows how big the gap is. All the money goes to the top and creates a chasm in quality.

[chaddyrovers]

Did Ipswich spend money on proven PL quality? Did Burnley or Southampton? 

Tv deals keep growth cos demand is there for fans to watch it and that Premier League is the best league in the world and fans want to watch it. 

Fans inconvience? Well it's been like that for many years. You weren't saying when we were in Europe under Hughes and playing Thursday nights then Sunday in the premier league. Football is moving more and more away from just Saturday 3pm kick off game whilst it cos of TV or teams playing in Europe..

On clubs going more and more in debt point, clubs owners are covering it and i believe if an owner want to spend their own money on a club to get promote and to the PL or winning the PL then it should be allow and welcome. Would we won the PL in 94/95 if these FFP Rules had been around back then. Owners are chasing/wanting promotion and PL football even just for 1 season. 

Ticket prices? Issue been discussed to the hilt on here and everywhere. 

 

[roversfan99]

None of that addresses my points regarding the growing inequality, the total lack of competiveness and thus excitement in this Premier League season or the growing unsustainability regardless of a clubs ambition in running a football club in spite of increasing TV deals and ticket prices.

Teams come up to the Premier League, spend lots of money but such is the gap between the leagues, stumble back down in embarassing fashion.

[chaddyrovers]

Did Ipswich, Leicester and Southampton in PL quality players last summer in order to stay up? No they didn't. Was Cooper or Van Nistorlooy the right appointment for Leicester? No

TV deals has increased cos of demand whether its Football or Darts or F1. Fans want to watch live sport. If they were to demand, TV Companies won't invest and buy their rights. 

 

[K-Hod]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Fans inconvience? Well it's been like that for many years. 

 

Yes, but it doesn't make it right, does it?

Match going fans are cast aside more and more, because Sky TV is calling the shots.

Shit situation tbh.

[Mattyblue]

It hasn’t ’been like this for years’ at all.

Before this season you’d see three EFL games maximum (often two) a week on TV - now there’s five at 12.30 on a Saturday alone.

Next season will see every non 3pm Saturday game in the PL on TV, which considering there seems to be more games on MOTD2 than MOTD these days will be far more than ever before.

It has never been like this.

[Wheelton Blue]

Sigh.

I see that the 'best league in the world' hyperbole is back.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

It hasn’t ’been like this for years’ at all.

Before this season you’d see three EFL games maximum (often two) a week on TV - now there’s five at 12.30 on a Saturday alone.

Next season will see every non 3pm Saturday game in the PL on TV, which considering there seems to be more games on MOTD2 than MOTD these days will be far more than ever before.

It has never been like this.

I think there is sometimes even 7 at Saturday dinnertime. 3 x Championship, 2 x League 1, 2 x League 2.

[Eddie]

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

None of that addresses my points regarding the growing inequality, the total lack of competiveness and thus excitement in this Premier League season or the growing unsustainability regardless of a clubs ambition in running a football club in spite of increasing TV deals and ticket prices.

Teams come up to the Premier League, spend lots of money but such is the gap between the leagues, stumble back down in embarassing fashion.

I do actually think Chaddy raises a fair point on this one. 

There have been clubs that have successfully made the transition (just look at Forest), but a lot of promoted clubs end up overpaying for the Championship's best performers. I think part of that is an intentional strategy for yo-yoing, but it makes survival a major challenge. 

Take Ipswich for example. Did many really believe the Szmodics was a Premier League player? Or even someone you'd want coming on for the final 15/20 minutes in a Premier League match? He's wonderful at this level, but he was always going to struggle to make the step up. When you sign players like that, you make your way back down to their level. 

[davulsukur]

15 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I do actually think Chaddy raises a fair point on this one. 

There have been clubs that have successfully made the transition (just look at Forest), but a lot of promoted clubs end up overpaying for the Championship's best performers. I think part of that is an intentional strategy for yo-yoing, but it makes survival a major challenge. 

Take Ipswich for example. Did many really believe the Szmodics was a Premier League player? Or even someone you'd want coming on for the final 15/20 minutes in a Premier League match? He's wonderful at this level, but he was always going to struggle to make the step up. When you sign players like that, you make your way back down to their level. 

It took Forest circa £175m and signing 21 players to finish 16th and survive by 4 points.

Yo-Yoing is definitely the strategy for a lot of clubs.

In the case of Leeds, Dingles and Sheff Utd they've come back down, sold a few players for good money and reinvested a good portion (but not all) back into the squad. Dwarfing the spending anyone else can achieve but actually making a profit in the market in the process + having parachute payments to boot. They can all offer huge wages vs the rest of the league and can attract better players by paying insane fees to agents (see Leeds spending on that one)

[roversfan99]

If you do manage to stay in the Premier League then more than one year of the money then gives you a platform to then stablise but its so hard now to even do that.

Forest got loads of criticism for their approach but it worked and it took a ridiculous amount of money just to scrapr survival in that first season. I stand by my point that the gap between Premier League and Championship is unhealthily big. No surprise that in 2 successive seasons the promoted sides have come straight back down in mainly embarassing fashion.

Ipswich did spend quite big but all they can attract/afford in wages is top end Championship players.

The Premier League has been terrible this season. 

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, davulsukur said:

It took Forest circa £175m and signing 21 players to finish 16th and survive by 4 points.

But, in doing so, they built a platform that has allowed them to rapidly improve. 

[davulsukur]

56 minutes ago, Eddie said:

But, in doing so, they built a platform that has allowed them to rapidly improve. 

I'm not criticising them tbh, more just pointing out that's the amount you need to spend to just about stay up now, the levels are that far apart.

Pure speculation on my part but I think its catching them up now, The Forest owner kicking off at his manager for not beating already relegated Leicester, denting their chances of landing a Champions League spot. I think they need that CL money, or they'll be in trouble with regards to P&S rules.