Venky’s, HMRC…The Plot Thickens ?

[MarkBRFC]

On 05/01/2024 at 07:47, OldEwoodBlue said:

 

The lights go out. The people get laid off. Administrators sell the club. We have 10 points taken away. We go down. The Rovers rebuild with a united fanbase and enjoy our glorious future.

This just won't happen any time soon.

[ABBEY]

10 hours ago, 47er said:

What do the owners do when there's nothing left to sell?

same as they do now , fingers in the ears going lalalalalala

[47er]

1 hour ago, ABBEY said:

ask yourself what led  to a a supporter throwing a snowball  beforehand.

NOTHING TO DO WITH SNOWBALLS AND DOWN TO SHENAGHANS OF A JOHN LE CARRE THRILLER.

Abbey I was insinuating (only half seriously) that Venkys are taking their revenge on us for perceived discourtesy towards them ie they know we hate them.

TBH I haven't a clue why they cling on to the Club. I wonder if they do!

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 minutes ago, 47er said:

Abbey I was insinuating (only half seriously) that Venkys are taking their revenge on us for perceived discourtesy towards them ie they know we hate them.

TBH I haven't a clue why they cling on to the Club. I wonder if they do!

Haha...

As you know, there really are people, who insist all this is because of the snowball. It's as if Steve Kean/Anderson etc had never happened already.

David Vincent knows....

[arbitro]

All roads lead to Pune for pretty much everything that has decimated our club. The Travis situation is the latest one which is causing real consternation amongst the supporters. The playing budget has been cut to the bone which means we can't afford to be paying somebody who is not actually playing so Travis is the collateral damage as in an ideal world Tomasson would keep him and effectively tell him to fight for his place. It's a ludicrous situation that something so ridiculous has to be factored in. And the 'excuse' we hear is because they can't send money over as they are being investigated by the Indian authorities for some alleged corruption, one of many corruptions we have suspected since they got their grubby paws on our club.

I wish they would just cut us loose from this never ending nightmare and let us start again.

[Upside Down]

8 minutes ago, arbitro said:

All roads lead to Pune for pretty much everything that has decimated our club. The Travis situation is the latest one which is causing real consternation amongst the supporters. The playing budget has been cut to the bone which means we can't afford to be paying somebody who is not actually playing so Travis is the collateral damage as in an ideal world Tomasson would keep him and effectively tell him to fight for his place. It's a ludicrous situation that something so ridiculous has to be factored in. And the 'excuse' we hear is because they can't send money over as they are being investigated by the Indian authorities for some alleged corruption, one of many corruptions we have suspected since they got their grubby paws on our club.

I wish they would just cut us loose from this never ending nightmare and let us start again.

There's bound to be way more to this than just tax dodging and sending money overseas. They'll be into all kinds of dodgy shyte that couldn't be proven in a law court but they can be charged with this. 

After all, how did they bring down Al Capone?

[OldEwoodBlue]

If we are developing values for a business then we also can't block pathways. There needs to be new kids in the first team every 6 months.

Tronstad - value going up.

Garrett should play more - value going up.

Travis - IF he plays in a promoted side - value going up.

 

We all have to to put away our blue and white bobble hats and put on our business hats. We are only here to lose less money, not to win football matches or owt daft.

Edited January 6 by OldEwoodBlue

[47er]

43 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Haha...

As you know, there really are people, who insist all this is because of the snowball. It's as if Steve Kean/Anderson etc had never happened already.

David Vincent knows....

I'm not on your wavelength there Len! To put another way I haven't a fucking clue what you're about.

Did he make motor-bikes in the 50's?

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

If we are developing values for a business then we also can't block pathways. There needs to be new kids in the first team every 6 months.

Tronstad - value going up.

Garrett should play more - value going up.

Travis - IF he plays in a promoted side - value going up.

 

We all have to to put away our blue and white bobble hats and put on our business hats. We are only here to lose less money, not to win football matches or owt daft.

From what I've seen of venkys tenure so far, the only point is to lose money.

[47er]

18 minutes ago, arbitro said:

All roads lead to Pune for pretty much everything that has decimated our club. The Travis situation is the latest one which is causing real consternation amongst the supporters. The playing budget has been cut to the bone which means we can't afford to be paying somebody who is not actually playing so Travis is the collateral damage as in an ideal world Tomasson would keep him and effectively tell him to fight for his place. It's a ludicrous situation that something so ridiculous has to be factored in. And the 'excuse' we hear is because they can't send money over as they are being investigated by the Indian authorities for some alleged corruption, one of many corruptions we have suspected since they got their grubby paws on our club.

I wish they would just cut us loose from this never ending nightmare and let us start again.

Amen to that but they don't seem to be bothered what we peasants think.

[wilsdenrover]

5 hours ago, philipl said:

Nope.

The precedent is that all operating expenses are itemised and justified as operational and approved for funding.

I don’t imagine you do but in that case was there any reason why the previous permission couldn’t have been ‘until told otherwise’ (rather than having to go back to court every 3 months).

[philipl]

9 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

I don’t imagine you do but in that case was there any reason why the previous permission couldn’t have been ‘until told otherwise’ (rather than having to go back to court every 3 months).

What it tells me is the Court doesn't exactly trust the Venky's so the Judge is requiring them to come back again after 3 months.

But the precedence has been set so assuming there are no changes in circumstances or buggaloos in the paperwork, the next hearing ought to be a formality in clearing the next transfer funding Rovers.

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

I'm not on your wavelength there Len! To put another way I haven't a fucking clue what you're about.

Did he make motor-bikes in the 50's?

The Invaders...

David Vincent ( played by Roy Thinnes) is the one, who has to "convince a disbelieving world that the nightmare has already begun.."

[wilsdenrover]

46 minutes ago, philipl said:

What it tells me is the Court doesn't exactly trust the Venky's so the Judge is requiring them to come back again after 3 months.

But the precedence has been set so assuming there are no changes in circumstances or buggaloos in the paperwork, the next hearing ought to be a formality in clearing the next transfer funding Rovers.

Let’s hope you’re right…

[Brian-Potter]

6 hours ago, philipl said:

Nope.

The precedent is that all operating expenses are itemised and justified as operational and approved for funding.

That’s correct. The precedent relates to the decision on whether or not funds can be released and not any pre-requisite information required to support the application. So if they do exactly as they did at the last hearing then it’s highly likely the ruling will go in their favour. If however, for example they added a further say £5m to the application for transfer funds then no precedent would exist for that scenario.

@tomphil I see your point that in a normal situation this would neither be acceptable or sustainable. However, this is Venkys. We already know they’ve spent huge sums of money on legal fees just to get this to the High Court and in addition to that remember as well as the two court orders made for circa £3.5m and £11m of funding it is actually technically costing them double those amounts as they are giving bankers guarantees for the same amount to the Indian Authorities.

It seems crazy but when you think they’ve thrown over £200m into Rovers for absolutely no return you realise the sums of money available to them.

I’ve tried to do some research into the structure and funding of their empire but being based in India means factual information is limited. From a couple of ratings agencies I’ve managed to find that there is one particular company in the VH Group that has a huge cash reserve and seems to proved most of the funding for the other members of the group.

 

 

 

 

[wilsdenrover]

20 minutes ago, Brian-Potter said:

That’s correct. The precedent relates to the decision on whether or not funds can be released and not any pre-requisite information required to support the application. So if they do exactly as they did at the last hearing then it’s highly likely the ruling will go in their favour. If however, for example they added a further say £5m to the application for transfer funds then no precedent would exist for that scenario.

@tomphil I see your point that in a normal situation this would neither be acceptable or sustainable. However, this is Venkys. We already know they’ve spent huge sums of money on legal fees just to get this to the High Court and in addition to that remember as well as the two court orders made for circa £3.5m and £11m of funding it is actually technically costing them double those amounts as they are giving bankers guarantees for the same amount to the Indian Authorities.

It seems crazy but when you think they’ve thrown over £200m into Rovers for absolutely no return you realise the sums of money available to them.

I’ve tried to do some research into the structure and funding of their empire but being based in India means factual information is limited. From a couple of ratings agencies I’ve managed to find that there is one particular company in the VH Group that has a huge cash reserve and seems to proved most of the funding for the other members of the group.

 

 

 

 

Losing money you can afford to lose on something you love makes sense (isn’t this what Jack did?)

But losing it on something you’re at best indifferent to is inexplicable.

 

[tomphil]

18 minutes ago, Brian-Potter said:

That’s correct. The precedent relates to the decision on whether or not funds can be released and not any pre-requisite information required to support the application. So if they do exactly as they did at the last hearing then it’s highly likely the ruling will go in their favour. If however, for example they added a further say £5m to the application for transfer funds then no precedent would exist for that scenario.

@tomphil I see your point that in a normal situation this would neither be acceptable or sustainable. However, this is Venkys. We already know they’ve spent huge sums of money on legal fees just to get this to the High Court and in addition to that remember as well as the two court orders made for circa £3.5m and £11m of funding it is actually technically costing them double those amounts as they are giving bankers guarantees for the same amount to the Indian Authorities.

It seems crazy but when you think they’ve thrown over £200m into Rovers for absolutely no return you realise the sums of money available to them.

I’ve tried to do some research into the structure and funding of their empire but being based in India means factual information is limited. From a couple of ratings agencies I’ve managed to find that there is one particular company in the VH Group that has a huge cash reserve and seems to proved most of the funding for the other members of the group.

 

 

 

 

Which one is that ?

There must be some huge borrowings underpin their empire although no doubt secured on loads of land they own and their turnover keeps everything paid for. That's why imo they are able to fund Rovers the way they do just through surplus turnover money and why they never seem willing to put cash in for transfers, it doesn't fit the accounting model.

They probably have a personal cash pile of 500 million but Rovers won't see any of that.

[Brian-Potter]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Which one is that ?

There must be some huge borrowings underpin their empire although no doubt secured on loads of land they own and their turnover keeps everything paid for. That's why imo they are able to fund Rovers the way they do just through surplus turnover money and why they never seem willing to put cash in for transfers, it doesn't fit the accounting model.

They probably have a personal cash pile of 500 million but Rovers won't see any of that.

It’s one of the research companies, I’ll post which one on Monday as which actual group company it was escapes me (and trust me, there are a lot).

In the meantime this document is publicly available and should be some interesting reading:

https://www.careratings.com/upload/CompanyFiles/PR/22112022071856_Venkateshwara_Hatcheries_Private_Limited.pdf

 

 

[philipl]

1 hour ago, Brian-Potter said:

That’s correct. The precedent relates to the decision on whether or not funds can be released and not any pre-requisite information required to support the application. So if they do exactly as they did at the last hearing then it’s highly likely the ruling will go in their favour. If however, for example they added a further say £5m to the application for transfer funds then no precedent would exist for that scenario.

@tomphil I see your point that in a normal situation this would neither be acceptable or sustainable. However, this is Venkys. We already know they’ve spent huge sums of money on legal fees just to get this to the High Court and in addition to that remember as well as the two court orders made for circa £3.5m and £11m of funding it is actually technically costing them double those amounts as they are giving bankers guarantees for the same amount to the Indian Authorities.

It seems crazy but when you think they’ve thrown over £200m into Rovers for absolutely no return you realise the sums of money available to them.

I’ve tried to do some research into the structure and funding of their empire but being based in India means factual information is limited. From a couple of ratings agencies I’ve managed to find that there is one particular company in the VH Group that has a huge cash reserve and seems to proved most of the funding for the other members of the group.

 

 

 

 

Thanks- great stuff!

I believe the land holdings are outside of their operating business structures unless you saw anything in there with rental income and property development earnings.

The land is where the real wealth is.

[47er]

8 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

The Invaders...

David Vincent ( played by Roy Thinnes) is the one, who has to "convince a disbelieving world that the nightmare has already begun.."

Ah!   Never watched it! No idea what I was doing when it was on!

[Roving Mick]

9 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

The Invaders...

David Vincent ( played by Roy Thinnes) is the one, who has to "convince a disbelieving world that the nightmare has already begun.."

Something like this:

Venkoids From Space Invade Blackburn Rovers

[Gamst]

We have all the hallmarks of a collapsing club. On and off field. The only logical explanation for why they would stick around at this point would be to sell whatever assets remain. If a fire sale brought about their departure I would be on board with that. If they still don’t go then I suppose we just continue to shrink as an entity. 

[Norbert Rassragr]

The club is dying, and I can see us going the way of Coventry City when they ended up in League 2. After that, who knows? Venky's need to go, but they won't. Their arrogance will keep them in place.

[Erased Citizen]

For if anyone fancies a rant.

 

[RoversClitheroe]

As posted by @Mike Graham I think?!