Valérien Ismaël: Blackburn Rovers Head Coach

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Im not sure he has fully united the dressing room. I think youd have to go back to the Murphy/Etuhu days where it was clear that 100% wasnt being put in.

But we have had problems of players not training properly this season according to Ismael himself, seemingly wasters like Gueye and Tavares. Also Kargbo not bothering to track back leading to a goal, public comments about Carter's preparation.

There have definitely been performances full of grit and real character but also ones showing a real fragility. I certainly wouldnt be able to commit to bigging up Ismael's man management as a positive.

There is certainly a lot of merit to the argument that he has been left with a poor and imbalanced squad, even if he has seemingly played a big part in endorsing the players hes been left with. 

and what did Ismael do with players not training properly? he dropped them from the match day squad. wouldn't you have done similar or not? do the players not have their own self responsible for not training properly? 

4 points in the last 2 games against top 6 side and we see the match day squad playing for Ismael and for each other, and the supporters. 

the squad need readjust due to Ismael changing results to get points on the board. 

Also he has brought Litherland, Pratt, Diamini, Atcheson into the squad and they look fine and in the case of Litherland and Pratt you wouldn't know they were in their first few games at this level

[47er]

2 hours ago, Andy said:

But then the home performances & results show that he hasn't found a way to win games where we have to take the initiative.

Teams play more defensively away from home so he hasn't got the players to cut  through or to put the few chances away.

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

and what did Ismael do with players not training properly? he dropped them from the match day squad. wouldn't you have done similar or not? do the players not have their own self responsible for not training properly? 

4 points in the last 2 games against top 6 side and we see the match day squad playing for Ismael and for each other, and the supporters. 

the squad need readjust due to Ismael changing results to get points on the board. 

Also he has brought Litherland, Pratt, Diamini, Atcheson into the squad and they look fine and in the case of Litherland and Pratt you wouldn't know they were in their first few games at this level

Obviously the correct treatment is to not include them. My point is, you and others are pointing out his good man management and the great team spirit. I dont see how there is any evidence or foundation to use that as a positive specifically to attribute to Ismael. In fact, players within the squad not training properly, not giving 100% in games or being questioned outside of football would if anything be red flags.

The main barometer for any manager is results. Ismael's overall have been poor.

Obviously with him being currently employed by the club, besides a very brief blip last season, you will go on full unequivocal propaganda mode.

[DE.]

Val has his limitations but he's doing alright with what's available to him. It obviously helps that the division is such a shitshow this season.

Some of his recent comments have been very interesting reading between the lines. He himself identified the fans' discontent goes back many years, which combined with the comment about this being the most difficult challenge of his career and the club being run in an unusual way, was certainly him indirectly pointing the finger in Suhail and Venky's direction. Perhaps subtly enough that they wouldn't pick up on it, or at least he'd have plausible deniability. Self-preservation, for sure, but not the actions of a total yes man. 

[LDRover]

59 minutes ago, 47er said:

Teams play more defensively away from home so he hasn't got the players to cut  through or to put the few chances away.

Exactly this.

We are a team better when we can be reactive rather than proactive.

[47er]

16 minutes ago, LDRover said:

Exactly this.

We are a team better when we can be reactive rather than proactive.

Acknowledging that KHod made the same point a couple of weeks ago tbf.

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Obviously the correct treatment is to not include them.

Good, 

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

My point is, you and others are pointing out his good man management and the great team spirit. I dont see how there is any evidence or foundation to use that as a positive specifically to attribute to Ismael. In fact, players within the squad not training properly, not giving 100% in games or being questioned outside of football would if anything be red flags.

The players understand their roles within this system, isn't that good man management. Look at how easy Pratt and Litherland have fitted into the team, you wouldn't know it was this was their first taste of Championship football. Is that not good management? 

You don't get good results like Boro away, PNE away, etc without a good team spirit and if certain players don't trained well then you are dropped from the team without that affect his team mates and the team spirit

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The main barometer for any manager is results. Ismael's overall have been poor.

Obviously with him being currently employed by the club, besides a very brief blip last season, you will go on full unequivocal propaganda mode.

The players are playing for Ismael and our away record is very good. Our problem is our home record and we deffo need to improve that which Ismael knows and the players know. 

[sharpysharps86]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The players understand their roles within this system, isn't that good man management. Look at how easy Pratt and Litherland have fitted into the team, you wouldn't know it was this was their first taste of Championship football. Is that not good management? 

You don't get good results like Boro away, PNE away, etc without a good team spirit and if certain players don't trained well then you are dropped from the team without that affect his team mates and the team spirit

I am not a fan of Ismael really. I don't like his general demeanour, and I think there's an unjustified arrogance to him that just doesn't sit well with me. HOWEVER...there is no doubt that the players in the team are putting their all in, whether its for the manager or themselves, I don't really care. There is a team spirit, that much is clear. Of course team spirit and ability are two different things, which is why Rovers are not pushing for the playoffs this year, as I think last season the quality of the squad with Travis, Hyam, Beck, Brittain, etc. was better overall.

Although I don't generally like his comments in the media where he calls certain players out (that kind of thing should be kept behind closed doors IMO), I can't argue with him being brutal with the likes of Gueye, De Neve, Kargbo (before he got injured), because these are all players that have been a massive disappointment to me.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Good, 

The players understand their roles within this system, isn't that good man management. Look at how easy Pratt and Litherland have fitted into the team, you wouldn't know it was this was their first taste of Championship football. Is that not good management? 

You don't get good results like Boro away, PNE away, etc without a good team spirit and if certain players don't trained well then you are dropped from the team without that affect his team mates and the team spirit

The players are playing for Ismael and our away record is very good. Our problem is our home record and we deffo need to improve that which Ismael knows and the players know. 

Ultimately his overall record result wise is poor. You can split it into home and away to try and suit an agenda but ultimately its the overall record that matters.

If you want to assume that his man management is really good to try and big him up, I think thats based on circumstantial evidence but thats up to you and it is an assumption. Extreme examples, Steve Kean won at Old Trafford, Coyle did the double over Newcastle, it doesnt mean that the team spirit was good.

Main thing, is his overall record of results good here? I would say no. Obviously not helped by the squad downgrade he seemingly was on board with in the summer.

[DeeCee]

I was against him coming and until the last month I felt vindicated but I have warmed (slightly) to him, based on results and (some) media comments (see DE's post above).

He still has a long way to go to get me fully on board.  The January transfer window will be "interesting".

[RevidgeBlue]

Still cant stand him personally, we're still only 4 points above the drop zone, AND don't forget, he's bailed his paymasters out by suggesting they can sort the pitch in lieu of strengthening in January.

So we'd better hope the away form holds.

[roversfan99]

That comment taken out of context hasnt bailed the owners out unless you choose to bail them out by again deflecting any blame away from them.

I have never warmed to him and dont rate him or the job hes doing but I cant see why anyone would take it as far as not being able to stand him. That doesnt seem like a rational level of dislike but I suppose its not the first time.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Still cant stand him personally, we're still only 4 points above the drop zone, AND don't forget, he's bailed his paymasters out by suggesting they can sort the pitch in lieu of strengthening in January.

So we'd better hope the away form holds.

Since he said that about the pitch he has put pressure on them by saying he wants signings in before the Hull fa cup match. 

90% of this board including myself had us nailed on for relegation after our transfer buisness had concluded.

The home form needs improving but for me he is doing an OK job...we are competitive in most the games this season and with the squad upheaval it would be a hard job for anyone.

Do you think he should have us challenging the top 6 with the squad we have and all the injuries we have had?

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Do you think he should have us challenging the top 6 with the squad we have and all the injuries we have had?

Yes, because according to him, the squad's better or at least comparable to last year. Didnt he get very prickly about it in that press conference?

I dont agree, but they're his players. It's a bit of an odd excuse to make for him to say, 

"Ah he's doing  ok because look at all the shite he's signed".

(My word not yours but you get the drift Im sure)

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Some people are really hard to please. We went to Boro the other day without Toth, Alebiosu, Wharton, Carter, Gudjohnsen, all of whom are first choice players when available. Baradji not fully match fit, Cantwell playing strapped up, Montgomery who’s handy to bring on off the bench, Forshaw and Kargbo who are again handy to bring off the bench.  Who knows who else not fully fit We get the better of a 0-0 draw against a team sitting second in the league who have only lost one game at home all season. 
And the manager’s a shit head who needs firing apparently ! 

[RevidgeBlue]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That comment taken out of context hasnt bailed the owners out unless you choose to bail them out by again deflecting any blame away from them.

I have never warmed to him and dont rate him or the job hes doing but I cant see why anyone would take it as far as not being able to stand him. That doesnt seem like a rational level of dislike but I suppose its not the first time.

I never mentioned the owners, I said "paymasters" I.e. Pasha and Gestede for the purposes of the transfer window. But then again you have this weird aversion to anyone other than the owners getting any blame for anything whatsoever.

For me Ismael is just as much of a problem as Pasha and Gestede. I find him very dislikeable personality wise, if anything goes wrong things are always someone else's fault (everyone forgotten "the list" already?) and he's fully on board or "aligned" with this bonkers "transition" (downgrading) which is likely to send us into League 1 or beyond.

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I never mentioned the owners, I said "paymasters" I.e. Pasha and Gestede for the purposes of the transfer window. But then again you have this weird aversion to anyone other than the owners getting any blame for anything whatsoever.

For me Ismael is just as much of a problem as Pasha and Gestede. I find him very dislikeable personality wise, if anything goes wrong things are always someone else's fault (everyone forgotten "the list" already?) and he's fully on board or "aligned" with this bonkers "transition" (downgrading) which is likely to send us into League 1 or beyond.

Its hardly weird, its blatantly obvious the source of our problems.

But I have repeatedly said that I dont rate Ismael and have criticised him for various decisions. Its the extent of your dislike which I find over the top.

Ismael isnt to blame as much as Gestede who isnt to blame as much as Pasha. But none are remotely as destructive as Venkys.

If we dont spend this window, it isnt Ismael to blame.

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Some people are really hard to please. We went to Boro the other day without Toth, Alebiosu, Wharton, Carter, Gudjohnsen, all of whom are first choice players when available. Baradji not fully match fit, Cantwell playing strapped up, Montgomery who’s handy to bring on off the bench, Forshaw and Kargbo who are again handy to bring off the bench.  Who knows who else not fully fit We get the better of a 0-0 draw against a team sitting second in the league who have only lost one game at home all season. 
And the manager’s a shit head who needs firing apparently ! 

I dont think anyone has suggested that Boro was anything other than a good result.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Some people are really hard to please. We went to Boro the other day without Toth, Alebiosu, Wharton, Carter, Gudjohnsen, all of whom are first choice players when available. Baradji not fully match fit, Cantwell playing strapped up, Montgomery who’s handy to bring on off the bench, Forshaw and Kargbo who are again handy to bring off the bench.  Who knows who else not fully fit We get the better of a 0-0 draw against a team sitting second in the league who have only lost one game at home all season. 
And the manager’s a shit head who needs firing apparently ! 

Not wanting to pick on your post in isolation but this thread is so fickle. We've had two decent results. Again in isolation Boro was a creditable performance and a pleasing result but we drew the game 0-0, we didnt win it 3-0. And we're 4 points above the drop zone.

If we suddenly went ten games unbeaten winning most of them in the process then, yes, that would be different but we just pick up the odd result here and there followed by two or three bad ones.

The members of the Coalition must groan when they see this thread and think what's the point?

 

[M_B]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Ultimately his overall record result wise is poor. You can split it into home and away to try and suit an agenda but ultimately its the overall record that matters.

If you want to assume that his man management is really good to try and big him up, I think thats based on circumstantial evidence but thats up to you and it is an assumption. Extreme examples, Steve Kean won at Old Trafford, Coyle did the double over Newcastle, it doesnt mean that the team spirit was good.

Main thing, is his overall record of results good here? I would say no. Obviously not helped by the squad downgrade he seemingly was on board with in the summer.

Eustace's overall form last season was under scrutiny right from the off, and rightly so. Only when we started winning away did it become a "home" thing, the whole Stokegate thing became the main topic of conversation. 

That conversation definitely changed to suit an agenda. 

[Mattyblue]

Oh yeah, Stoke-gate… don’t win much at Ewood, do we.

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, M_B said:

Eustace's overall form last season was under scrutiny right from the off, and rightly so. Only when we started winning away did it become a "home" thing, the whole Stokegate thing became the main topic of conversation. 

That conversation definitely changed to suit an agenda. 

I presume you mean the season below, when he was doing poorly and being criticised. And people were adding a game he wasnt in charge of to try and skew things.

As it was, once he had a pre season, results went from being poor to being excellent and those previous criticisms became a thing of the past. Ismael hasnt done that so the criticisms remain. You can start trying to cut up his record (home v away etc) but overall his results in charge have been poor.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Still cant stand him personally, we're still only 4 points above the drop zone, AND don't forget, he's bailed his paymasters out by suggesting they can sort the pitch in lieu of strengthening in January.

So we'd better hope the away form holds.

It's interesting because you could see that as bailing them out - but if that was the purpose wouldn't you suggest it in private, rather than broadcasting such a strange compromise publicly? To me that came across more as Ismael highlighting how dysfunctional and financially restricted things are without outright saying so. I don't think he'll ever outright criticise them, but comments like "take money out of the transfer budget to sort the pitch out", after essentially calling it ridiculous that our pitch is sub-standard, don't seem like bailing out as much as putting a glaring spotlight on those in charge. 

[Rogerb]

2 hours ago, sharpysharps86 said:

I am not a fan of Ismael really. I don't like his general demeanour, and I think there's an unjustified arrogance to him that just doesn't sit well with me.

He's French what else do you expect?

[M_B]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I presume you mean the season below, when he was doing poorly and being criticised. And people were adding a game he wasnt in charge of to try and skew things.

As it was, once he had a pre season, results went from being poor to being excellent and those previous criticisms became a thing of the past. Ismael hasnt done that so the criticisms remain. You can start trying to cut up his record (home v away etc) but overall his results in charge have been poor.

You're rewriting history, nobody mentioned Eustace's home form in isolation until he started winning away.

You were the main protagonist and I pointed it out to you more than once. You did exactly with Eustace what you're criticising others doing with Ismael.