[Archived] Charlton Athletic 1 0 Rovers

[emerton]

Emerton has lost the idea of what a left winger does.

as long as he remebers the idea of what a right winger does then ill be happy.

he has been a quality player over the last month

[bubblerrovers]

Believe im more annoyed than most after staying up till 5am to watch the game. I think we played well and it will get better but at the end of the day we lack quality all over the pitch except in goal. To be fair we have got got one of the worst teams in the premiership and this is guna a long hard season i can't wait. Why do i get excited watching rovers and always believe we've turned the corner???? It never goes our way

[stevos]

I think a draw would’ve bee a fair result, however it wasn’t to be. I’m sick of all the doom and gloom – after the top 3 and L’pool and Newcastle, the rest of the teams in the Premiership are round about equal. Rovers will not get relegated, nor will we get into Europe. But talk of relegation is Barry ollocks.

But I do believe Sparky will sort out the rot that had descended in Souey’s last 14 months. Sparky has a lot of work to do – but im sure he'll get the job done.

Charlton are a tough team, they close everything down fast, get men behind the ball - the reason for this is because there is a distinct lack of talent in their team - so they operate as a tidy unit. We could learn a lesson or two off Charlton. PS - should've been a penalty - his arm came out form the side of his body to meet the ball.

[philipl]

The Guardian report. Another report in the much derided press which does not slam the Rovers' performance the way many on this mb have done.

The telling line is where it says that there probably is little difference between 7th and 16th in the Premiership this season.

I remain extremely concerned by Ferguson's failure last night (this was a game he should have bossed but his long and short passing looked all wrong and he seemed to wilt under Charlton pressing), resigned to the fact that we will have an unreliable defence until 1 January at the earliest and cannot see Dickov and Stead becoming an effective attacking unit.

Yes we are one point away from a relegation slot and the next three games at least are going to be massive nail biters with defeat in any of them precipitating full on crisis reactions from the supporters.

However, there are very encouraging signs from last night:

Look at what Jansen did well - he looked physically stronger, lasted the 90 minutes as well as anyone and not one skill was consistently missing from his repertoire- and also remember he could be frustratingly eratic BEFORE his accident. This now encourages me to believe that the percentage of good play by Jansen will increase the more games he gets and that a Jansen/Stead partnership will emerge as one of the most potent strike forces in the Premiership. Competition for places from Bothroyd, Dickov and Gally will be intense but I think the goals will begin to flow again.

Emerton also just needs to keep on lifting his confidence level. Not so much the touchline dragon neeeds slaying but what about the by-line bogeyman? Had Emerton driven for the by-line on four occaisions last night when the opportunity was there, I am sure he would have set up at least two golden chances. Emerton blossoming into a player opposition managers worry about will give Hughes the opportunity to blood MGP/de Pedro on the other side but they will remain a luxury item until Emerton and Jansen are fully restored to self-belief. Hopefully his dead ball and crosses delivery will suddenly click into gear as well- we have seen him deliver fantastic corners, its the problem of the ten duds before the one with menace that Hughes and his team need to sort out.

Most importantly, Hughes seems to be a much smarter motivator than Souness. I was really impressed by the way Rovers put enormous pressure on Charlton for 15 minutes after conceding that goal and kept creating goal threats after Charlton had weathered that initiial storm.

Lets also be grateful that Pompey, Saints, Baggies and Palace are in the Prem this season and that Norwich have played so well for so little reward.

Edited September 28, 2004 by philipl

[stevos]

I couldn't agree more philpl

I do believe that Emerton has all the tools in the locker - he just needs to remeber how to use 'em - once he does, he will emerge as our best player.

[Ricky]

I think the key thing about last night is that we played pretty well. We had 8 shots on target to their 2. The one thing I did notice is Stead is really low in confidence, he seems to be shying away from the ball. Emerton is one of the most frustrating players i've ever seen, he has verything in his locker but just can't seem to put it all together. There was a golden opportunity last night to run down the wing and get a ball in the box but yet again he cut inside and the move broke down.

I'm sure things will click soon and we'll be fine, just need one to go in off Steads arse or something.

[vindaloobob]

Did I watch a different game than some? I thought we were better than a lot I have seen of Rovers lately. First half we were poor, second half after they scored I thought we did rather well. I felt encouraged in defeat which is something I have not felt for a long time.

Neill needs to be sat though he scares me, Gray I thought ran his heart out for us. All the team worked hard and gave their all. We have been on a downslide for sometime the finesse play will come back with some confidence.

i agree with this. as i don't have sky, my rovers watching has been limited this season to the southampton match, and the charlton match. the southampton match left me furious at the ref and depressed about our team - they were scrappy, lacked will and commitment, and didn't seem to know what they were doing. last night i felt a lot better. the defense is still frail, and the attack lacks that edge (confidence?), but i was impressed by the way that we put them under pressure after conceeding the goal, and by some of the passing and movement. there's still a lot of work to be done, but i feel a lot more hopeful of an improvement than i did 3 weeks ago

[Cocker]

Well, it seems that we cant win a pen even though a ref watches the opposite teams player actually bat the ball down with his hand - what do we have to do.

Here are my thoughts from last night

Brad: Starting to frighten me at times - still wouldn't swap him for anyone though

Gray: My man of the match for us. I thought he was excellent

Amo: DANGER. He seems to switch of at times and doesn't always realise that he is a defender and doesn't have a free role

Matteo: He was originally my favourite summer signing but now I take it all back. Very clumsy - division one footballer

Neil: Like Amo, loses concentration. Looks very good and then all of a sudden - LUCAS, YOU'VE LOST YOU MAN

Emerton: Makes me so angry. You know what he can do but seems to be holding something back. Take people on son I know you can beat them

Flitty: Have to say that I would have gone for Tuggs myself. He was his usual no messing just do a job Flitty

Fergy: Ok I suppose but I would like to see him getting into shouting positions on the edge of the box

Matty: I have to say nothing special but finally we have someone that can win headers. He drifted into the middle too much for me (I know that where he should have been

Dikov: Class, the little fella never gives up

Stead: His confidence is shot to bits he just looks gutted all the way through

Subs:

Jay: looked lively when he came on but I never noticed him after that

Tuggs: Played some nice balls through - he might have made a difference had he started

Sparky: I kept shouting at him to bring The Gamst man on.

Overall: When we are good we are very very good but when we are bad we are horrid

[Hughesy]

My view on last nights game.

Big Brad – Didn’t have too much to do. Except for the goal he dominated his goal area and never looked like being beaten again

Centre Defence – Did ok, a few dodgy lapses in concentration but not a bad game.

Full backs – Neill at fault for not marking on the goal. However he linked up well with Emerton at times. Gray, was good but I felt that he looked very tired last night.

Emerton – Star man on the night. That’s 4 good performances in a row. Keep up the work

Ferguson & Flitty – Ok in the middle, however Flitcroft should of bagged at least 2, if not 3. Ferguson didn’t boss the midfield as much as he would of liked im sure. I think a combination of Ferguson and Douglas would be better in the middle as I feel that Tugs and Flitty are no longer premiership standard players

Jansen – Worked hard and the games will do his confidence a great deal. Would of preferred to see him up front, but Hughes is the boss

Dickov – Lots of hard work as always. Held the ball up well, however I feel he doesn’t release the ball early enough sometimes.

Stead – Lots of running but nothing to show for it. Seriously lacking in confidence.

Subs –

Bothroyd – Lively again, surely he has to be given longer in a game like this.

Tugay – Nothing special, loses the ball too easy and doesn’t throw himself into tackles.

Overall I think we bossed the game but there was no killer instinct. We need a creative player and a genuine goal scorer, along with a solid centre back.

[SAS]

Having seen the chances on ssn, i wonder how flitcroft missed from 2 yards and we were unlucky not to score in the goalmouth scramble.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Alan Curbishley, and his brother - who works in the music industry - are both big fans of classic rock groups like the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, The Who and Genesis.

One particular Rolling Stones track sprang to mind while I was watching this 90 minutes of tripe at the Valley - 'I Can't Get No Satisfaction'.

I'm afraid I found it difficult to derive any satisfaction from watching the kind of wayward passing and chronic lack of invention I felt Rovers were guilty of last night.

Sorry to be negative, but the match, in my view, was a very poor spectacle. It was hardly a great advertisement for football, was it?

Many years ago, The Valley was built on a large Charlton sand pit. It looked as if some of our players had their feet well and truly stuck in a sand pit last night, given the poor quality of their passing.

The following paragraph in today's Daily Telegraph sums up the 'entertainment' on offer.

Both teams were struggling to find any pattern, with possession surrendered too often while the passing was frustratingly wayward. There was too much muddled midfield play with no positive end product and when an attack did start, there was a sense of inevitability about the outcome.

I agree with that assessment, and also with the following comments below that were made on this thread:

We play far too many long balls which just result in more pressure on the defence.

Stead worked hard but we're toothless in attack.

total lack of a quality ball in to the front two

In the last 3rd of the pitch there was nobody to link with the front 2.

Much work needs to be done on the training ground to address our weaknesses.

It was frustrating to see possession given away so cheaply, with too many long balls played by our defenders. In contrast, Flitcroft played too many back passes and looked slow and off the pace.

We need one of our central midfielders to be making better runs forward into the box. Flitty did manage to do this in the 7th minute, but frustratingly he hit the woodwork, when he should have scored.

We looked uncertain in defence. Kevin Lisbie was given too much space by our defenders, and we have to stop conceding such soft goals from set pieces.

Lucas Neill had a poor game, and Michael Gray's lack of height at the back means that he sometimes gets caught out at set pieces.

In an ideal world, Gray would be a couple of inches bigger. I don't know if his girlfriend would agree or not....

I thought Emerton was his usual frustrating self at times last night - guilty of weak shots, giving possession away too cheaply, and poor quality crossing.

Stead looks as if he's lacking in confidence. I couldn't fault him for effort and to be fair to him, the quality of service wasn't great, but it's just not happening for young Jon at the moment, and it might be time soon to give the him a rest on the bench.

I don't have happy memories of this ground.

In 1999 at the Valley, in a vital relegation battle near the end of that season, Ashley Ward was denied a blatant penalty after being upended by the Charlton goalkeeper.

We drew that match 0-0, when we desperately needed the 3 points, and it was at that particular point when it became clear to me that we were heading down into the 1st Division.

Last season even a Brad Friedel equaliser in injury time couldn't prevent our inept defence from conceding a 3rd Charlton goal before the final whistle.

I've got a lot of respect for Alan Curbishley's management skills, but I felt his team were just as poor as us tonight. It was a game that Rovers should have picked up at least a point from.

Sorry to 'Paint It Black' on this post, but the players need to improve for the rest of the season or else like the Rolling Stones, I'll be heading for my Nineteenth Nervous Breakdown....

[nellybc]

I just cant decide if it was really as poor as some have been describing on here.

We certainly lack quality distribution from any member of the back four.

Only when lorenzo steps out with the ball does it start to resemble football.

If gray & neill are to persist humping balls at stead, at least give the lad a chance to either get it down, or flick it on. Instead of just aimlessly blasting it at him with no chance of being able to control it.

Im no expert defender, but if matteo is to play c-half then he must clear his lines better, at least lorenzo can head the ball up and away.

The midfield seems to lack cohesion and they dont seem to be communicating with each other. Think that Flitcroft & Ferguson are too similar and covering the same ground.

Brett looked more usefull than on many occasions last year, but to stick with janses for the whole game, think that maybe pedersen could have been given a chance late on.

Regrettably (well fortunately) i missed the bournemouth game, does jay bothroyd warrant a chance to play?, stead + dickov looked bright but maybe bothroyd would be a little more direct and if emerton can get his crosses missing the first man, we may have a striker in the middle of the box, as when we finally got crosses into the box, we seemed short of numbers.

And just to finish with, please, oh please can somebody tell me how that was not a penalty?

Got to keep believing that they will turn this around, i suppose that in a worst case scenario, 17th would keep us safe. On the sky programme before the game, they chatted with the norwich fan, he seemed to think that his team would stay up, (they had done the hard games and now had a chance to pick up some wins) now there was me thinking that they would be below us

[Guest Kamy100]

Can't fault the effort and commitment last night. However there was a serious lack of quality all over the pitch. The defence did OK for long periods but the problem remains that they go to sleep sometimes, you can't afford to that at this level as teams will punish you. The passing was woeful. Yes we had lots of possession but in the second half but we did very little with it. In the first half we gave the ball away, a better team would have punished us more than Charlton did. I thought that the midfield four worked extremely hard but the end result was there was a lack of creativity and the service up to Stead and Dickov could be best described as poor. Dickov continues to work hard and Stead is full of running but is seriously lacking confidence.

I am worried about the situation but take encouragement that at least the team seem to be working hard. Hopefully Hughes can get the team organised and we can get the points to keep ourselves in the Premiership. People were saying last night that we must get through to January so that Hughes can sign players. Doubt that this is going to happen as the club has very little money to invest in the transfer market, the best we can hope for are a couple of loan deals.

Looking at the team last night shows how much of a mess Souness has actually left. The thing that is going to haunt Rovers the most this season is the sale of Cole. At times he was lazy, at times his work rate was question but what he did give us was a real cutting edge and threat upfront.

Edited September 28, 2004 by Kamy100

[thenodrog]

It seem that my initial observations of Barry Ferguson are now being widely accepted on here. No way is there a £7m player in him. My initial judgment that he is a square peg in a round hole appear to be well founded.

A nagging doubt that I have had in my mind about GS reign was whether or not there were sticky fingers in the till concerning some of our transfer dealings. We have consistently paid far too much for ordinary players far too often for coincidence. Grabbi, Reid, Ferguson, Amo, Yorke etc. At the moment it's just a suspicion and will probably never be proven but.........

Anyway dunno if anybody has mentioned this but imo we would have had at least a point if we still had Cole. (oops sorry Kamy......you just did! great minds eh?)

The fact that 6ft+ Lucas Neil still insists on trying to hinder and out muscle his man before choosing to actually jump for the ball doesn't help either!

As for the team spirit and effort last night. Thats fine and good at the moment, but lack of success will soon erode both.

The Prem has divided into the top 3, the bottom 5 and the rest. Anybody require further clarification of our position in all this? Dunno if this is kosher but somebody mentioned that Hartson is soon out of contract, if thats the case then we should offer him a kings ransom to come.......but only on a pay as you play basis.

Edited September 28, 2004 by thenodrog

[MarkB]

Plus points from last night were:

1. Mark Hughes's attitude - very refreshing and I think that given a few weeks he will really make a difference.

2. The return of Jansen to the first team - he won just about every header and was the only player in our team who seemed to be able to control the ball.

3. Dickov - nasty little devil but never gives up.

4. Bothroyd - Looked lively

Negatives were:

1. Emerton - why does he insist in cutting in all the time when he has the pace to go past defenders? Also at times his ball control is woeful.

2. Gray - Needs far too long on the ball. Defensively he was OK but when he had the ball he dilly dallied so long he either lost it or was forced into making a pass which gave the recipient no chance.

3. Ferguson - Needs to get back to how he was just before the injury. He was very ineffectual last night.

4. Stead - Tries hard but desperately needs a goal.

5. Ref - Does anybody else think that the refs have got their heads together and decided it would be really funny to see how long they can make Rovers go without awarding a penalty? The ref who awards the first penalty has to pay for the Xmas do perhaps.

In summary.....seriously naffed off after last night but excited about what Hughes can achieve for us.

[MCMC1875]

5. Ref - Does anybody else think that the refs have got their heads together and decided it would be really funny to see how long they can make Rovers go without awarding a penalty? The ref who awards the first penalty has to pay for the Xmas do perhaps.

Which Xmas are you referring to ?

[thenodrog]

2. Gray - Needs far too long on the ball. Defensively he was OK but when he had the ball he dilly dallied so long he either lost it or was forced into making a pass which gave the recipient no chance.

3. Ferguson - Needs to get back to how he was just before the injury. He was very ineffectual last night.

Is there just me who sees a connection there?

[MarkB]

MCMC1875

Probably 2010 the way things are going

[pg]

Sounds like its the old problem from last season, in that there is no-one who can supply a quality ball in the final third of the pitch.

Andy Cole used to supply some good chances to Stead... but he's gone now.

Tugay did the business for us towards the end of last year... can we get away with four central midfielders again?

I've taped the game... will make for interesting viewing.

[DaveyB]

Personally I thought we played Ok although I agree with what some have said on here regarding the overall quality of the match itself - Rodney Marsh (yes, I know he's a prick) said he'd rather chew on a broken lightbulb than watch this game and you can hardly argue with that assesment.

Other than one moment of lost concentration from us the game would probably have ended 0-0 - and lets be honest before the game we would have all taken a point. Neither side created many chances - we hit the post with our best, they put theirs wide (when Lisbe was clean through on Brad).

Even after we conceded with a bit more luck we could have equalised - the goalmouth scramble, Jansen's header - but unfortunately it wasn't to be.

However, the pleasing things for me were (as others have mentioned) the effort and the team spirit - but also I think we look harder to beat. We seemed to close down more effectively and pressed higher up the pitch - we may have to endure a few 0-0's before we start winning games, but at least I could see signs that defensively we are getting better

(Obviously alternatively it could just be that Charlton are absolute tosh going forward - I mean a forward line of Johannsen, Lisbe, Euell and Jeffers hardly strikes fear into you does it?)

The things that concern me however:

1. We very rarely seem to pass the ball into the stride of a player - meaning that the player has to check his run in order to pick up the ball and thus loses all momentum. This makes our build up very slow and ponderous.

2. At corners and other set pieces we don't seem to attack the ball. Look at the goal yesterday, the player met the ball on the move, having run from the back post to the front. Look at how other teams line up for corners - often with players outside of the box, or at the back post, ready to make a run. We, on the other hand, line up between the 6-yard box and penalty spot and wait for the ball to come over - which means that even when a good ball is played in (about 25% of the time with Emerton) we're standing still and therefore unable to get the kind of power you need to be able to score.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Many people on here know my views on Ferguson - he's a legend in the making. However I will concede that last night he was terrible. Everyone will have a stinker now and again. His cause wasn't helped by our defence choosing to hoof the ball so often.

Theno, as much sense as you talk, you obviously can't judge a player. Have you forgotten the performances of Fergie before the injury?

Too many knee jerkers not enough supporters

[Dan Furness]

Ferguson was an expensive copy of Flitcroft and there wasnt room tonite for two players of simalar quality on the pitch. Emerton has lost the idea of what a left winger does.

I think Flitcroft had a better game than Fergie.

Emerton wasnt THAT bad (plus hes not a LW Rob) ha ha

Thought Dickov had a good game, annoying people as usual

[John]

Ferguson had a bad game- looked a bit sluggish as well.

Not as bad as Flitcroft though who did put a big effort in. But his days are surely coming to an end. He is simply not upto the athletic demands to be a Premiership player. Considering he is one of our highest wage earners we need to get rid. I would rather see Douglas doing Flitcroft's role as I think he would do it better.

I think credit to Charlton's midfield though who were always tight against us and constantly pressing our 4 players in midfield. It really was a physical contest for everyone of our midfield players. Also for our strikers who got fouled all night.

[Nuclearsox]

What fantastic entertainment! No, not the match. Of course not. No, the bit where weedy Paul Dickov offered to throw the ball out for a goal kick from 12 yards to give Charlton possession back and the astonished referee asked "Can you throw it that far!?!". Marvellous stuff.

I'm usually at a loss to understand why so many posters have a different opinion of the match after a home game. I've always put it down to us watching from different parts of the ground, getting a different view, seeing things from different angles. How can there be so many contrasting views when we're all watching the same SkyTV pictures? Gray, man of the match? I thought it was his worst game for us. Emerton useless? I thought he was our biggest threat. Neill crap? Go on, I'll give you that one.

I'm worried at how goal-shy we look up front - the best chances falling to Flitcroft and Amo. A number of people (Alan Smith included) are suggesting we need the ball to bounce in off Stead's backside to give him a bit of confidence. The way he is playing, I just can't see that happening. He always seems to be half a yard behind the defender and, crucially, facing the wrong way. Every good striker knows that you have to stand on the 18 yard line, face away from goal, bend your knees, lean forward and run backwards at full tilt to score with your arse. I don't want to write the lad off but he's just not showing any signs of doing this.

Edited September 28, 2004 by Nuclearsox

[Gav]

The first half last night was again shocking in my opinion. We've lost the ability to pass the ball and this must be addressed asap.

I felt that both Jansen and Flitcroft looked closer to full fitness last night and contributed to a decent second half performance.

Emerton still lacks the ability to pass the ball or go past a player and is very frustrating to watch. It’s clear he has the ability to beat players but my guess is he's suffering from a lack of confidence.

Ammo I thought was excellent last night despite a dodgy miss kick in the first half. The amount of headers he won goes unnoticed I’m sure but he's getting better by the game but I agree with some fellow posters, he does switch of at times. His distribution is far better than any other defenders and he will always pose a threat from a set piece.

Dickov, a real gem and does everything you could wish for from a player in that position.

Tugay looks lost and some way of the pace. Let’s hope the Djorkaeff rumors are true because we need a creative midfield player and quick.

All in all not a bad second half performance and given time it looks like Hughes can really do something with the current crop