His struggles with the pace of senior football were massively aided playing against a 10 man struggling team on damage limitation mode.

How much have you "seen?" Obviously he has barely played any senior football, guessing youve seen him for Everton but what kind of player is he? You say "fuck the begrudgers" but its hardly mindless pessimism. We are regressing, and signing a kid with a dozen senior games on a temporary deal in a season that seems destined for mediocrity, it would be incredible but unfair to expect him to fix our defensive woes under a manager unable to organise one.

I think that people over focus on his obvious physical limitations but I dont think he is very good beyond that. He takes too long on the ball and often doesnt seem to have pictures of the game around him. With who we have in central midfield, even including the likes of Rothwell and Holtby who flatter to deceive most weeks, I dont see how he even gets on a 9 man bench.

Kaminski Nyambe Lenihan Branthwaite Douglas Travis Davenport Elliott Dack Rothwell Armstrong Subs: Pears, Bell, Johnson, Trybull, Holtby, Gallagher, Dolan, Brereton, Downing

is anyone anything other than totally non plussed regarding the potential loan sign of a kid who has played 13 senior appearances in his his career? Is he going to make a major difference in helping a manager who seems unable and unwiling to focus on keeping clean sheets to suddenly start keeping the goals out as a sole change? Unconvinced.

So he picked the wrong option at least 243 times, assuming that the only times he ever chose correctly, he scored.

27 goals in a year for a mid table side.

Clearly didnt ask well enough.

If merely finishing in the top half rather than the bottom, so potentially a place lower than last season would ensure his place is kept as manager then I suspect that standards are even lower than I had imagined. His target is top 6.

Ive never seen him play so as I say cant judge if hes any good purely off data. Also dont think we can get away with Rothwell deep in midfield next to Travis.

Or we need to re evaluate the shape of the midfield entirely. Play Dack in his best position and play Travis and one other deeper.

A lot of excitement over Pickering seemingly stemming from random stats, crosses per game, tackles per game, progressive runs per game, and montages of him doing sliding tackles and the like. Will need to be judged in a game rather than with numbers as to whether he can help the back 4 concede less goals than it is currently doing. I will refrain from judging a player I have never seen until as and when he signs, neither left back is good enough so we do need a new left back, young, highly rated at his current club and with potential to fill the position long term, room for cautious optimism. We need a new centre back in the next day or 2 too.

Surely explaining the reasons to which someone believes a manager should stay is exactly the thing to expect on a thread questioning the managers future? Theres plenty of frustration flying around that many feel that we are underperforming and stagnating. Not enjoyment.

Im not sure how you managed to come to this conclusion. My point was even at our lowest ebbs in my life time and in even in times when it went against logic and reason, I have retained at least a bit of hope that things can get better.

Probably because people are trying to rationalise why we are never close to getting in the table where the targets have been set out. I dont really think its as simple as putting things down to one thing. Comments are meaningless. Players never say "im staying even though the manager is underachieving and I dont believe in him because ive doubled my wage." Not that im saying that is the case but comments like that are always to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

Because I do not know what these reasons are. If you was to just simply state now, as things change too, I want Mowbray to stay because of x y and z and then constructive debate can arise.

To be honest I agree, whether he wants to shout and bawl, sit in the upper tier, pick his nose, scratch his arse, whatever he wants to do on the touchline means little. The reason that people are resorting to analysing his touchline behaviour however and questioning if he still has the dressing room is because what we have offered up on the pitch this season and perhaps prior is not good enough.

There's something about being a football fan which makes you hopeful in the face all of all logic. I remember when we came down and we went top, I thought maybe we would come straight back up, I despised Kean and knew how terrible he was but its that blind hope. When Coyle was appointed, I knew how incompetent he was beforehand but I still was happy when Graham signed etc, trying to figure out the team he would pick rather than resigning myself to the relegation I knew was very possible. When we played United that season in his last game, there was that burning hope that we would pull off a shock. I think once that hope goes, I would struggle to find any sort of enthusiasm to watch games and to give a toss. I have never lost that even in the worst times, even when Kean was manager, even when Coyle was, even when we went into an embargo, had Shebby Singh shaming us, when I was going on protests to rid us of Venkys who I despise to this day. But if you accept stagnation knowingly purely out of fear, if that hope (however illogical) leaves, then what is the point? There is reason to fear if Mowbray goes that they appoint someone awful, but there is still a chance, even if it is a fluke or via an agency, that they get someone and he gets us promoted. Its not beyond the realms of possibility. If I write off any chance of that ever happening under owners that seem unwilling to ever leave, then surely I may as well pack it in?

To be fair chaddy, I am non the wiser as to why you want him to stay, and when I do enquire, your default tactic is to ask me to revert back to x amount of time ago when you told me rather than just elaborate which you would if you had any genuine belief in the credibility of your reasons.

I dont really get how today in itself is the straw that broke the camels back regarding Mowbrays future to anyone. It was a cup game in which we played a much changed team which would never in itself warrant dismissal. But for me it was just further reminders of reasons as to why we are stagnating under Mowbray. Absolute shite but he should have been sacked prior. Numerous players out of position again. Dack is not a false 9, its never worked before and simply wont. Play him behind a striker where he actually plays. Out of everyone we could shunt at right back, how he dreamt up that Buckley goes there is laughable. And obviously Johnson is never a centre back but we know his collection of injury prone centre backs requires desperate measures. He regularly gets the balance of the team horribly wrong, both from the start and with subs. The starting 11 had too many passive players, then suddenly as he often does, we had too many attacking players not in a proper shape with no rhythm or understanding. Pears is shocking, doing a mate a favour. There are calls for Stergiakis but he has come from obscurity really, his games in Europe came in a defeat to part timers. But Pears is shite, 4 years of him to look forward to. I appreciate that Buckley was out of position but it is a myth that he a good footballer but just lightweight. He can barely kick a ball 10 yards and he is slow of thought, he dallies because he doesnt have pictures of what is around him. Brereton set such low standards that some decent performances earlier in the season as if he was justifying his price which he didnt come close to but he is back to the old comedy figure. Dolan is so raw its untrue and hes not effective, a million step overs and then usually turns back or plays a sloppy pass.

Whoever told you that Buckley is going to be a superstar or "the one" is either a figment of your imagination or in totally the wrong job. He has never looked every bit a footballer.

He did look particularly succeptible in the air, seems to be that quite a few recall in the same way. I fear that he must be still quite a bit off the standard if hes currently playing in non League. Platt was doing likewise last season and he ended up leaving permanently to try and make a career for himself lower down the pyramid.

He must have improved plenty since his time here, of course it was a tough time but his football was mind numbingly bad and he cost us a semi final at Wembley.

I wonder if Mowbray would prefer the game to be on or off. It could be a valuable opportunity to get a start under the belts of Dack and Travis, for the likes of Davenport, Dolan and one or two other squad players to push themselves for a more regular place, and even for one or two youngsters to make the manager aware of what they can do. Conversely, we dont want any injuries and the defence will be beyond patched up.

100% agree with this. They seem to have taken us for granted.