[Archived] Rovers Takeover Thread

[yoda]

Surely you contradict yourself immediately -

In a league where TV rights are collective ... and where Livepool and Man Utd's annual interest payments alone are not far short of the asking price to buy BRFC outright ... the argument about the billions in India and China watching on TV falls down immediately. The selling price has nothing to do with the lack of a successful buyer to date. Jack's instructions to safeguard the club have everything to do with it.

As does linking the debt of the "big" clubs to the asking price of the Rovers

[TimmyJimmy]

OK fair enough. My tone on reflection is a tad aggressive. Hand held high. It's all that Burnley promotion stuff which sets the sap rising. But my point stands. We just can\t dream about a global brand and all that. There just is no money in it. In Singapore our fan club is a princely 12. It just riles me when people slag off the group of people who outside Jack Walker have done more than anyone to hold the club together in difficult times. So maybe you took the shot for everyone else's ridiculous rantings. Arte et Labore my friend

Arte et Labore it is iamarover, no hard feelings, I think I must have been up for it too, had a sh!tty week and all that. Anywhoo... moving on ...

Tris :

"The selling price has nothing to do with the lack of a successful buyer to date. Jack's instructions to safeguard the club have everything to do with it."

You may well be right but I guess we can't argue over what isn't in the public domain, we'll just have to back our hunches on that one.

Just to be clear in case anyone has the wrong end of the stick on this, anyone who is associated with BRFC past, present or future is a good sort in my book and won't get any nonsense from me. I'm obviously thankful to the trustees and the wider Walker family for carrying on Jack's support in absentia but we did go through a period where the tap slowed to a trickle. Zero funds is a really bad situation for any EPL team, without cash the merry go round stops and we all fall off. We nearly did this season but wasn't Sam stopped from buying the players he needed in the transfer window because the purse was empty. We got away with it but it was oh so close. We NEED cash, not a lot but enough to compete and stay in the league. If the trustees don't want to stump up the cash, or can't, then respect, thanks for the good times, but we need to move. All this discussion isn't about slapping people around because of their positions on a takeover it's just about finding a solution that is best for the club. Personally, I believe the club is priced too high. As for Jack's Will, if it's causing such a problem now, i.e. not being able to find a 'suitable' buyer when there's so much money being splashed about to buy other clubs, then we are probably locked into some unachievable clause that will prevent a sale at any point in the future.

My last word on brands, really we're missing the boat on this. People buy brands that reflect the image they want to project to the outside world. We need an image, an identity. Even a miniscule percentage of 6.7 billion people adds up to a big number and lot's of spending power. I think it was Abbey sometime time ago who suggested appealing to the wild and wacky. Maybe, maybe not but at least it's thinking positively about the subject.

I hate soap boxes so won't post anything else on this thread as I have nothing new to say. Life is short then you die

[philipl]

I think you will find that what Tris has posted is in the public domain.

Comments from John Williams to the LT.

And I believe that Jack's Will has been very very good for us and remains so. All except the Chelsea and Villa take overs have ended in tears or are going that way (City is still too early to call but Thaksin all but killed them). The possible take overs of Rovers that became public (Dan Williams and Chris Ronnie) would have been complete and utter disasters given what has happened since.

[PAFELL]

Surely you contradict yourself immediately -

In a league where TV rights are collective ... and where Livepool and Man Utd's annual interest payments alone are not far short of the asking price to buy BRFC outright ... the argument about the billions in India and China watching on TV falls down immediately. The selling price has nothing to do with the lack of a successful buyer to date. Jack's instructions to safeguard the club have everything to do with it.

Out of curiosity, how do you know about Jacks intructions / will? Surely the details of this are not public knowledge. would Jack have put in his instructions or will,

'do not support the club in the transfer market after a few years even if it means the club are relegated. Then when you have no desire for the club anymore then flog it.'

[jim mk2]

All except the Chelsea and Villa take overs have ended in tears or are going that way (City is still too early to call but Thaksin all but killed them). The possible take overs of Rovers that became public (Dan Williams and Chris Ronnie) would have been complete and utter disasters given what has happened since.

The takeover of ManU has been particularly painful ....... 3 Prem titles, 1 European Cup and counting.

Plus ManCity thanks to middle eastern money are now the world's richest club.

Bet United and City fans are in tears over that lot.

Takeovers... who needs 'em eh ?

[American]

:D

(I actually did laugh out loud!)

[Tris]

Out of curiosity, how do you know about Jacks intructions / will? Surely the details of this are not public knowledge. would Jack have put in his instructions or will,

'do not support the club in the transfer market after a few years even if it means the club are relegated. Then when you have no desire for the club anymore then flog it.'

No ... no, that's not in it.

What seems clear is that Jack Walker made provisions for the future health of the football club. Since he sadly passed away, the club has not been relegated. It has won promotion, a cup, 4 European qualifications, and made a load of semi-finals.

Perhaps you (and others) need to look at the Premier League table just before Jack passed away. Look at the fates of the sort of clubs he set BRFC up to compete against.

3rd - Leeds Utd ... 8th - Leicester City ... 11th - Newcastle United ... 12th - Middlesbrough ... 14th - Coventry City ... 15th - Southampton ... 16th - Derby County ... 17th - Bradford City ... 18th - Wimbledon ... 19th- Sheffield Wednesday ... 20th - Watford.

Ipswich and Charlton came up and stayed up the following season. Man City came up and dropped straight back out.

14 clubs listed there, and we have done much more than compete against all of them thanks to Jack Walker's legacy, and the much maligned Trust. 13 are no longer in the top flight.

Man City (the one current PL member) now have the chance to overtake our proud achievements, because they can bid 90 million quid for Kaka. That's not Jack Walkers fault, and much less his vision.

[PAFELL]

No ... no, that's not in it.

What seems clear is that Jack Walker made provisions for the future health of the football club. Since he sadly passed away, the club has not been relegated. It has won promotion, a cup, 4 European qualifications, and made a load of semi-finals.

Perhaps you (and others) need to look at the Premier League table just before Jack passed away. Look at the fates of the sort of clubs he set BRFC up to compete against.

3rd - Leeds Utd ... 8th - Leicester City ... 11th - Newcastle United ... 12th - Middlesbrough ... 14th - Coventry City ... 15th - Southampton ... 16th - Derby County ... 17th - Bradford City ... 18th - Wimbledon ... 19th- Sheffield Wednesday ... 20th - Watford.

Ipswich and Charlton came up and stayed up the following season. Man City came up and dropped straight back out.

14 clubs listed there, and we have done much more than compete against all of them thanks to Jack Walker's legacy, and the much maligned Trust. 13 are no longer in the top flight.

Man City (the one current PL member) now have the chance to overtake our proud achievements, because they can bid 90 million quid for Kaka. That's not Jack Walkers fault, and much less his vision.

What I ask today is what are the terms of the will Jack left and the instructions that apply today. I do agree and cannot complain about the good the trust has done for Rovers in the past - no Rovers supporter can. The complaint I think most Rovers supporters have, is what are the trust doing NOW. It seems to me that they are doing nothing, apart from waiting until somebody comes up with the money and the right conditions to buy the club.

Circumstances and teams in the prem have changed since Jack bought the club - but did Jack give any instruction to meet foreseeable or possible changes in circumstances. Jack was a business man who supported Rovers, and therefore in any business you have to expect change and plan for that possibility - which was possible the reason the trust was set up. But what is not known by most Rovers supporters is what was the instructions that Jack to the trust in the taking care of Rovers in the future.

Tris, I am not critical of the trustees. But when it looks like - as we are all in the dark as to what they are or not doing - they are not interested in Jacks wishes - whatever they were - it is hard for the trustees not to receive complaints. But understandable for Rovers supporters to be concerned for the future of Rovers - if not then you would question if they were supporters.

But the silence stance of the trustees does nothing to relieve those concerns.

[waggy]

the way the glaziers and the comedy duo at anfield are raping there respective clubs,should be a concern to all football fans,how can someone buy a club,and not use a penny of there own money.utd have paid 261 million in intrest since the glaziers took over,how can this be right.surely this is fraud

[joey_big_nose]

the way the glaziers and the comedy duo at anfield are raping there respective clubs,should be a concern to all football fans,how can someone buy a club,and not use a penny of there own money.utd have paid 261 million in intrest since the glaziers took over,how can this be right.surely this is fraud

Hmm. Well its sort of the same rationale as using a credit card. Nothing fradulent about it. Stupid maybe. But not fraudulent.

Its a massive gamble though because if United lose revenue somehow then everything could fall like a house of cards. But then I'm sure an Arabian billionaire or someone would step in, so I am not sure how much risk there is.

THe banks must be loving it.

[Blueandwhitemike]

On global branding

The only way that ( as far as I can see ) any team gets famous in the Far East is by winning lots of trophies, not one or two but lots. Man Utd are big, Liverpool, even Chelsea, add in the biggest European teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, after that there aren't any more teams... The culture in the Far East is that people follow winners, therefore I don't think we have much chance of getting many fans from there.

On the trustees

Their biggest ( maybe only ) sin is silence. We don't really know anything, they rarely, if ever, communicate anything to the fans. This leads to conjecture and speculation about them and what they are doing, and as it appears to be little, it is mostly negative. That is their fault, and I do think they have a responsibility to communicate to the fans at least a little more than they are doing at present, we are also big investors in this club. If they did tell us a little more we might be much happier with them, until they do people are going to complain.

[Eddie]

Hmm. Well its sort of the same rationale as using a credit card. Nothing fradulent about it. Stupid maybe. But not fraudulent.

Its a massive gamble though because if United lose revenue somehow then everything could fall like a house of cards. But then I'm sure an Arabian billionaire or someone would step in, so I am not sure how much risk there is.

THe banks must be loving it.

Happens all the time in the business world.

[brightonrover]

Do we know who any of the trustees are?

Do we know anything at all about the terms of Jack's will relating to the trust?

[Manc Rover]

This has just been sent to me via North-West Business Insider. Doesn't really say much but encouraging none the less!

Buyers coming back into football - Deloitte

Enquiries from potential buyers of Premier League football clubs are "picking up again" according to Dan Jones, partner in accountancy firm Deloitte's Sports Business Group. That will be welcome news for the North West clubs openly up for sale: Everton and Blackburn Rovers. At the Annual Review of Football Finance launch dinner in Manchester last night Jones said: "Two years ago we were taking a call a week from potential buyers. It slowed right down, but now there are gradual signs of interest coming back. Football remains an exciting, compelling and alluring market for investors."

[PAFELL]

On global branding

The only way that ( as far as I can see ) any team gets famous in the Far East is by winning lots of trophies, not one or two but lots. Man Utd are big, Liverpool, even Chelsea, add in the biggest European teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, after that there aren't any more teams... The culture in the Far East is that people follow winners, therefore I don't think we have much chance of getting many fans from there.

On the trustees

Their biggest ( maybe only ) sin is silence. We don't really know anything, they rarely, if ever, communicate anything to the fans. This leads to conjecture and speculation about them and what they are doing, and as it appears to be little, it is mostly negative. That is their fault, and I do think they have a responsibility to communicate to the fans at least a little more than they are doing at present, we are also big investors in this club. If they did tell us a little more we might be much happier with them, until they do people are going to complain.

Sadly the only complaints are on here - nothing is ever said publicly. For example does the local paper ever coment on the fans upset etc with the trust? Maybe if they did the trustees may respond - as you say fans are also investors in the club - well they put money into the club.

[Brfcrule1]

Pafell whilst I agree the points you make and there are some good ones there are some points you need to remember. In Jack's will it must say something along the lines of we don't sell the club to people who will saddle the club with huge debt. We don't want to be like a Man Utd with 261 million pound in debt. A club like ours would never be able to manage that sort of debt in the long term so proper due diligence has to be done, before any sale takes place so that we know someone will invest their own money into our club. Another point that you have to remember is there is a recession on when the economy was good we had a healthy amount of season ticket sales but for the past few years season ticket sales have dropped so that money has to be recouped somehow. If you remember we had a huge wage bill compared to our turnover and JW said that needs to be reduced so that money has to come from somewhere, but another pertinent point the walker family are the 7th or 8th richest family in the country so they could probably afford to subsidise the football club better but they have other business interests and they probably won't however frustrated we all get. If you look at the flip side we have manageable debt but other clubs like Man Utd are in serious debt now you never know tomorrow the bank could turn round and say to the people who have borrowed that money we want it all paid back within a few months cos the banks have a business to run as well and they won't wait forever for their money same wiv L'Pool,Chelsea etc.. Eventually the banks will ask for that dosh back I also feel you could throw the barcodes into that category hence the need to reduce the wage bill eventually they will prob do a leeds so the upshot of this is ok we will not buy the best players in the world but at least we live within our means and we have manageable debt and don't have bank managers bothering us every so often to repay loans back!

[Guest benmaxwell]

Brfcrule1 congratulations. You are the first person to make me go crosseyed online. That is no mean feat!

[PAFELL]

Pafell whilst I agree the points you make and there are some good ones there are some points you need to remember. In Jack's will it must say something along the lines of we don't sell the club to people who will saddle the club with huge debt. We don't want to be like a Man Utd with 261 million pound in debt. A club like ours would never be able to manage that sort of debt in the long term so proper due diligence has to be done, before any sale takes place so that we know someone will invest their own money into our club. Another point that you have to remember is there is a recession on when the economy was good we had a healthy amount of season ticket sales but for the past few years season ticket sales have dropped so that money has to be recouped somehow. If you remember we had a huge wage bill compared to our turnover and JW said that needs to be reduced so that money has to come from somewhere, but another pertinent point the walker family are the 7th or 8th richest family in the country so they could probably afford to subsidise the football club better but they have other business interests and they probably won't however frustrated we all get. If you look at the flip side we have manageable debt but other clubs like Man Utd are in serious debt now you never know tomorrow the bank could turn round and say to the people who have borrowed that money we want it all paid back within a few months cos the banks have a business to run as well and they won't wait forever for their money same wiv L'Pool,Chelsea etc.. Eventually the banks will ask for that dosh back I also feel you could throw the barcodes into that category hence the need to reduce the wage bill eventually they will prob do a leeds so the upshot of this is ok we will not buy the best players in the world but at least we live within our means and we have manageable debt and don't have bank managers bothering us every so often to repay loans back!

I cannot disagree with your comments - my chief complaint is with the silence of the trustees. There probable is something in Jacks will that protects the club from dodgy investors - thankfully so. But I do believe that the trustees should understand that the supporters want to hear from them - after all without supporters there is no football club - even if was for sheer customer relations the trust should be able to talk to the supporters.

I think this is the only complaint I have with the trustees - I can understand that with them having other businesses etc and the credit crunch, they may not want or willing to put more money into the club.

[Craigman]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/8569679

Nicko

Any idea which club this is ?

My guess would be either Birmingham/Everton or Pompey.

We all know nothing is happening at Ewood.

[Guest benmaxwell]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/8569679

Any idea which club this is ?

My guess would be either Birmingham/Everton or Pompey.

We all know nothing is happening at Ewood.

It's Newcastle.

[ffan]

It's Newcastle.

It says Premier League?

[Guest benmaxwell]

It says Premier League?

Okay...

But Newcastle are getting interest from the Middle East.

[ffan]

Okay...

But Newcastle are getting interest from the Middle East.

Oooopsy didn't read what Nicko said.

[AndyR]

It sounds like Newcastle but this, amongst other sources says Ashley owns 100% of Newcastle, so why would this guy only buy 60%? Something doesn't seem to add up.

Ashley sells Newcastle

Guess we will see in next few days, but it ain't us

[nicko]

It sounds like Newcastle but this, amongst other sources says Ashley owns 100% of Newcastle, so why would this guy only buy 60%? Something doesn't seem to add up.

Ashley sells Newcastle

Guess we will see in next few days, but it ain't us

Guessing here...but Ashley may want to retain an interest in the club and the buyer [if it is Newcastle] would also be paying less for it than he would have to for 100 per cent.