[Archived] Michael Appleton - New Rovers Manager

[Mike E]

All you've done is proven SKHT right.

Every time over the last two years theres been a bit of what seems like positivity the supposed "doom and gloom" merchants have been right though haven't they?

Hell even when we were all united in jubilation (when Kean left) even that turned out crap in the end. That was the best moment of the last two years, this is just our new manager stating the obvious about our squad.

This is similar to Berg in that we have appointed a manager with a pretty terrible results record. Until the guy starts massively changing those stats I won't see that much in the way of positives. Talk is cheap.

Talk is cheap, yes. And yes, results need to improve.

Have you (or SKHT) ever considered that people are positive in defiance at the unnecessary slating of every little thing that goes on? Take Appleton's actions at Rovers so far? A proper fitness coach appointed (worked with England) and a head of recruitment whom he trusts and something resembling a structure from board room down to players. These are not things we have been blessed with since Sam was here.

As I say, I absolutely agree, results need to improve. But SKHT seems to slate Appleton for trying. And after only 2 games. Unless we losing 5-0 repeatedly for a month, I expect Appleton is hear til the summer at least.

[SydneyRover]

I was very much of the opinion that it would have been impossible for any manager to be successful with the structure that was in place. You can't have a club where a board member brings in his own players without the knowledge of the manager. You can't manage when a board member replaces your fitness coach with an unknown. You also can't be successful if you sign players just because of who their agent is a la Ribiero and Myles Anderson. And so on.

The above goings on sound like they have stopped. Surely allowing a manager, regardless of whether he's experienced or not, to bring in his own coaching and scouting team as well as his own players is a step in the right direction? I certainly think it's better than the above goings on?

Bringing in an experienced manager and giving him the same freedom as Appleton would have been better but it's still a step in the right direction.

So you're saying Venkys wouldn't let experienced managers change those things, however they've been talked round into doing so by a relative managerial no mark with a 25% win record?

I'm not buying it. Either this wasn't the issue that stopped the other managers coming and they would have let them carry out these changes too...or else besides a few cosmetic changes not much has changed at all.

[SydneyRover]

Talk is cheap, yes. And yes, results need to improve.

Have you (or SKHT) ever considered that people are positive in defiance at the unnecessary slating of every little thing that goes on? Take Appleton's actions at Rovers so far? A proper fitness coach appointed (worked with England) and a head of recruitment whom he trusts and something resembling a structure from board room down to players. These are not things we have been blessed with since Sam was here.

As I say, I absolutely agree, results need to improve. But SKHT seems to slate Appleton for trying. And after only 2 games. Unless we losing 5-0 repeatedly for a month, I expect Appleton is hear til the summer at least.

Quote me the bits where he is slating Appleton for trying. Slating the reactions of the fans, maybe.

So many times people have hailed false dawns. Take a look back to the thread where we beat Liverpool as the first example of this. Yet some of us could see it for what it was - a flash in the pan against an out of form team by a manager with zero pedigree. We got similar things said to us then and have had it at various points right through to the early days of Berg.

I think the point SKHT is trying to make is that there's been so many points at which legions of people here have clung onto relatively minor things and hailed it as a sign the tide was turning. Some of us need a hell of a lot more than that.

[rovers11]

So you're saying Venkys wouldn't let experienced managers change those things, however they've been talked round into doing so by a relative managerial no mark with a 25% win record?

I'm not buying it. Either this wasn't the issue that stopped the other managers coming and they would have let them carry out these changes too...or else besides a few cosmetic changes not much has changed at all.

No, not at all. I suspect they could have talked Venkys round as well but why would they take the risk? People like Hughes will get other offers but someone like Appleton is still making his way in the game so has to seize any opportunity with a bigger club (please don't tell me you think Blackpool are a bigger club!).

Anyway, hopefully you will change your mind after a few positive results.

[thenodrog]

Regardless of whether Appleton turns out to be the right man or not, the fact he seems to have complete control over recruitment and coaching staff is hugely significant.

Or hugely dangerous! Rem even if he is as honest as the dfay is long Appleton only has a playing and coaching background and will still very inexperienced in many aspects of football management. I suggest that he is prob carrying a level of naivety commesurate with his age. In short we are trusting a man to drive the careereing and almost out of control Blackburn bus who is still effectively wearing green 'L' plates.

[Mike E]

Quote me the bits where he is slating Appleton for trying. Slating the reactions of the fans, maybe.

- By slating fans' positivity and advocating negativity (rather than caution as Tom M has done) he is indirectly slagging off Appleton and the only negative we have so far is a poor result and a draw that, but for one fatal flaw, would've been a win. Everything else is better multiple times over than what we've had for 2 years. Why slag us off for enjoying it? Showing himself to be a miserable toad and deserving of the name Steve Kean

So many times people have hailed false dawns. Take a look back to the thread where we beat Liverpool as the first example of this. Yet some of us (I was one) could see it for what it was - a flash in the pan against an out of form team by a manager with zero pedigree. We got similar things said to us then and have had it at various points right through to the early days of Berg.

- No we didn't have anything like Appleton's statements said to us. That's why it's such a nice change. Berg was incredibly vague and Kean was excuse after excuse after excuse. Appleton has offered no excuses thus far and has set down specific points which we all agree with; far more than any manager since Sam has done.

I think the point SKHT is trying to make is that there's been so many points at which legions of people here have clung onto relatively minor things and hailed it as a sign the tide was turning. Some of us need a hell of a lot more than that.

- Most people have offered positivity with the caveat that Appleton may be turning the corner provided he gets results. He's either ignoring this or has missed it. We ALL know results are the only thing that truly matters in football. It goes without speaking. The point SKHT may be trying to make is therefore already in the minds of all football fans the world over who have a few brain cells strung together.

[Mr Cool]

All I know is what I saw on Wednesday night and that was a committed and spirited Rovers display. It's been years since I have enjoyed a game at Ewood as much, maybe since the Hughes era.

I'm not saying he's going to be a huge success, but to have that kind of impact in such a short space of time is surely impressive.

[gumboots]

Agree totally vf. Not only that but I don't get why anyone is saying that Appleton is only saying what we've all been saying and seeing that as a negative. I can only see it as a positive because it's ages since a rovers manager has seemed to see what fans see. Yes results need to improve but how was the manager to know that some idiot in the crowd would hold onto the ball and cause the ref to add on extra extra time? And how was he to know that goodwillie would be so stupid? As long as we can see the levels of effort and commitment we saw the other night I firmly believe that we can expect better results to begin to follow. Appleton wouldn't have been my choice but I can't see too many reasons to get on his back yet. Cautious in support yes but prepared to see how it goes.

[m1st]

All I know is what I saw on Wednesday night and that was a committed and spirited Rovers display. It's been years since I have enjoyed a game at Ewood as much, maybe since the Hughes era.

I'm not saying he's going to be a huge success, but to have that kind of impact in such a short space of time is surely impressive.

Tuesday, vf?

[riverside returns]

There are clearly the two camps, optimists and pessimists. I fall in the former as I want my team to do well. I will not knock them and almost desire them to fail.

+ Any number with several '0's at the end of it.

[thenodrog]

There are clearly the two camps, optimists and pessimists.

"A pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist"

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Or realists and fantasists. The realists seem to be in a minority whenever a new manager comes along. Or most of them have given up trying to convince the fantasists of what is obviously gonna happen.

I must say I've never seen anything quite like it. 2 virtually identical situations happen 10 weeks apart. The first one went disastrously, the second one which so far looks virtually identical, is expected to go much better.

Praised for being no-nonsense - same as Berg

Praised for talking a good game - same as Berg

Mediocre record with 2 previous clubs - same as Berg

Poor start - same as Berg

A draw at home against a mid-table team with few chances created, that insanely gets labelled the best performances in ages - Brighton, Birmingham, can people really not spot these things?

I wonder what happens next. Its not desiring your club to fail riverside, its demanding they do something that will actually succeed instead of blissfully accepting them feeding you the same garbage over and over again. We honestly may as well have stuck with Kean forever if we're happy to accept replacement after replacement who are just as bad.

[Mike E]

Or realists and fantasists. The realists seem to be in a minority whenever a new manager comes along. Or most of them have given up trying to convince the fantasists of what is obviously gonna happen.

I must say I've never seen anything quite like it. 2 virtually identical situations happen 10 weeks apart. The first one went disastrously, the second one which so far looks virtually identical, is expected to go much better.

Praised for being no-nonsense - same as Berg

Praised for talking a good game - same as Berg

Mediocre record with 2 previous clubs - same as Berg

Poor start - same as Berg

A draw at home against a mid-table team with few chances created, that insanely gets labelled the best performances in ages - Brighton, Birmingham, can people really not spot these things?

I wonder what happens next. Its not desiring your club to fail riverside, its demanding they do something that will actually succeed instead of blissfully accepting them feeding you the same garbage over and over again. We honestly may as well have stuck with Kean forever if we're happy to accept replacement after replacement who are just as bad.

And yet again, you ignore the points raised. Did Berg bring in his own men? Did Berg explain specifically what he thought was wrong and take steps to act on that within 2 weeks? No. The only feel-good we got from Berg was his reputation as a player for us and getting a bit starry-eyed.

With Appleton the situation is different in that he is taking steps IMMEDIATELY and acting on the words he says.

Quite why you won't let us enjoy that change, I don't know. And again, we are not saying he WILL succeed. We are just hopeful that he will. You, on the other hand, are slating us for that which suggests you wish failure on Rovers. It seems you want us to fail just so you can prove you were right.

I've seen more common sense written on the rather annoying fb groups than in your posts.

Are you not hopeful that we succeed? If you are, then why are you condemning like-minded people as fantasists? The only difference between you and me is that I choose to observe the developing situation, while you seem to be stuck in the past. Bless you.

[chris_h]

Or realists and fantasists. The realists seem to be in a minority whenever a new manager comes along. Or most of them have given up trying to convince the fantasists of what is obviously gonna happen.

I must say I've never seen anything quite like it. 2 virtually identical situations happen 10 weeks apart. The first one went disastrously, the second one which so far looks virtually identical, is expected to go much better.

Praised for being no-nonsense - same as Berg

Praised for talking a good game - same as Berg

Mediocre record with 2 previous clubs - same as Berg

Poor start - same as Berg

A draw at home against a mid-table team with few chances created, that insanely gets labelled the best performances in ages - Brighton, Birmingham, can people really not spot these things?

I wonder what happens next. Its not desiring your club to fail riverside, its demanding they do something that will actually succeed instead of blissfully accepting them feeding you the same garbage over and over again. We honestly may as well have stuck with Kean forever if we're happy to accept replacement after replacement who are just as bad.

I would say that a realist is somebody who accepts that the current manager is with us for at least 10 games and there is nothing that anyone can do about that. A realist is somebody who understands that Appleton's success will be ours and helping to create an atmosphere that is hostile to him on here will hinder him. A realist somebody who acknowledges that Appleton has come through the school of hard knocks as a player and manager. It would be realistic to acknowledge that as a handy trait for our club's manager in both the short and medium term.

Only a fantasist would judge a manager after 3 games and suggest that is a yardstick for his future performance.

[m1st]

But will Appleton be as bad as Kean, SKHT? I certainly hope not and I hope [and I accept that's all we, optimists and pessimists, can do at present] that he won't be.

To me, he's certainly setting out his stall as someone who is capable of cleaning out the Augean stables which Kean left us. I had hopes of Berg; and certainly in the second half of his first game at Crystal Palace [when we were all singing "Henning Berg's Blue & White Army"], it looked as though he was going to be a positive influence. The fact that, for whatever reason, he didn't bring in his own people to assist him meant that he was unlikely to be able to achieve what we needed him to achieve.

This feller [Appleton], however, gives totally a different feeling. It's like he knows what's wrong with our club and is going to take the steps necessary [bringing in, for example, a [long-overdue, imo] fitness coach] to right those wrongs. I'm happy about that; are you? And, if not, why not?

[Stuart]

I would say that a realist is somebody who accepts that the current manager is with us for at least 10 games and there is nothing that anyone can do about that. A realist is somebody who understands that Appleton's success will be ours and helping to create an atmosphere that is hostile to him on here will hinder him. A realist somebody who acknowledges that Appleton has come through the school of hard knocks as a player and manager. It would be realistic to acknowledge that as a handy trait for our club's manager in both the short and medium term.

Only a fantasist would judge a manager after 3 games and suggest that is a yardstick for his future performance.

Sorry but I have to completely disagree with everything but the first sentence.

A definition:

"A fantasy is a situation imagined by an individual that expresses certain desires or aims on the part of its creator. Fantasies sometimes involve situations that are highly unlikely; or they may be quite realistic. Another, more basic meaning of fantasy is something which is not 'real,' as in perceived explicitly by any of the senses, but exists as an imagined situation of object to subject.

In everyday life, individuals often find their thoughts pursue a series of fantasies concerning things they wish they could do or wish they had done."

We all want Appleton to be the real deal and somehow be THE hidden gem. But experience tells us that this is unlikely.

[chris_h]

Sorry but I have to completely disagree with everything but the first sentence.

A definition:

"A fantasy is a situation imagined by an individual that expresses certain desires or aims on the part of its creator. Fantasies sometimes involve situations that are highly unlikely; or they may be quite realistic. Another, more basic meaning of fantasy is something which is not 'real,' as in perceived explicitly by any of the senses, but exists as an imagined situation of object to subject.

In everyday life, individuals often find their thoughts pursue a series of fantasies concerning things they wish they could do or wish they had done."

We all want Appleton to be the real deal and somehow be THE hidden gem. But experience tells us that this is unlikely.

Seriously? You think it's reasonable to judge a manager after 3 games? You don't believe that Appleton has overcome tough times in his football career?

[riverside returns]

That maybe so. But the world seems nicer when on is happy.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I'm ignoring the points raised because they're based on the belief that words have an intrinsic value, which they don't. Words mean precisely jack **** if they're not backed up with results. I don't care if he's the albert einstein of football, i don't care if he claims to have a magic bullet solution to all our problems, I don't care if he says he knows exactly what will work and what won't, which players to sign and which not to, who is bad for the club and who isn't, whether there's too much influence from agents, whether our squad is imbalanced, whether he's going to consult Bowyer for advice on the squad. He can come up with as many catchphrases, tag-lines and superficial vote-winning points as he wants, and it doesn't mean a single thing to me until he starts winning games on a regular basis.

As for the common sense, stuck in the past, bless you comments. Well they morbidly amused me I'll give you that. I've spent years trying to argue the fluffy cotton wool white-noise bull**** in football has pretty much nothing to do with getting results. Tried to do it about the playing good football obsession when Sam was in charge, tried to do it about Kean's useless array of flashy foreign signings who were initially praised for bringing youth and a new style of play, tried to do it about Berg getting credit for being a former player and a no-nonsense manager, and trying to do it over Appleton's embarassingly easily won PR campaign.

Its all irrelevant nonsense that for some reason a certain type of dreamer fan gets excited about. I'll judge him on what happens for 90 minutes once a week on a 1-acre piece of grass. The rest is the type of useless superficial rubbish that most fans weren't even aware of in football before media saturation became the norm.

[chaddyrovers]

Pleased with what Appleton has done so far behind the scenes like bring in his own coaching staff. A new first team coach will be appoint by next week. new fitness coach been appointed who is currently working with the England senior squad.

He is bring in Luke Dowling as Chief Scout. Hopefully we will put in a proper scouting set up like we had under Hughes. something we havent had since Kean took over as manager.

he has going public saying whoever was in charge of buying players has left the squad unbalance and lacking players in certain areas. no back up for Martin Olsson really and no proper right winger. which fans have been saying for ages.

This are good little steps in the right direction but now need the results on the pitch. Hopefully first win tomorrow at Derby.

Tuesday performance was very good but players have set the benchmark for team performance. defensively very good and solid.

[chris_h]

I'm ignoring the points raised because they're based on the belief that words have an intrinsic value, which they don't. Words mean precisely jack **** if they're not backed up with results. I don't care if he's the albert einstein of football, i don't care if he claims to have a magic bullet solution to all our problems, I don't care if he says he knows exactly what will work and what won't, which players to sign and which not to, who is bad for the club and who isn't, whether there's too much influence from agents, whether our squad is imbalanced, whether he's going to consult Bowyer for advice on the squad. He can come up with as many catchphrases, tag-lines and superficial vote-winning points as he wants, and it doesn't mean a single thing to me until he starts winning games on a regular basis.

As for the common sense, stuck in the past, bless you comments. Well they morbidly amused me I'll give you that. I've spent years trying to argue the fluffy cotton wool white-noise bull**** in football has pretty much nothing to do with getting results. Tried to do it about the playing good football obsession when Sam was in charge, tried to do it about Kean's useless array of flashy foreign signings who were initially praised for bringing youth and a new style of play, tried to do it about Berg getting credit for being a former player and a no-nonsense manager, and trying to do it over Appleton's embarassingly easily won PR campaign.

Its all irrelevant nonsense that for some reason a certain type of dreamer fan gets excited about. I'll judge him on what happens for 90 minutes once a week on a 1-acre piece of grass. The rest is the type of useless superficial rubbish that most fans weren't even aware of in football before media saturation became the norm.

Without wishing to get into a slanging match I'd say that much of that was pretty self serving. It would look good on the CV of an aspiring football administrator.

If you are going to judge a manager on what he does over 90 minutes once a week giving him three goes at it seems a bit unreasonable.

[riverside returns]

And in deference to you theno. It is fair to say ' once a knob always a knob,

[Mike E]

That 'superficial rubbish' is what makes the game enjoyable for most. Do you ever go to Ewood if it's only the result that matters? Do you not anticipate a potential result when in the ground? Do you not converse with those around you about the 'superficial rubbish' like tactics, playing incidents, wrong refereeing decisions etc?

Do you go home to the missus and just say 'we won' or 'we lost'? Not even the score matters? Would a 1-0 victory over Accy Stanley give you the same reaction as beating Burnley to the PL title on derby day with a 9-0 result?

Apparently not because 'only the result matters'.

Judging a manager is all any of us can do. Why you feel the need to slag us all off for enjoying debates in between is beyond me.

Ofc, Appleton may be an abject and miserable failure. What then? Do you expect praise for being proven correct, but a complete misery-guts before 'the worst' even happened?

[gumboots]

I don't remember anyone praising Kean's signings, especially not when we could see the good players leaving the club. i don't remember getting starry eyed about Berg because he was an ex player. . that still doesn't mean that someone telling it how it is isn't refreshing. We all know we have an unbalanced squad, but we've been lied to about it over several years. we all know we haven't had a strong midfield since goodness only knows when, but nobody has addressed it before or come out agreeing with us. we all know we have too many fancy lightweight players and no real grafters with Championship experience, but we seemed to be doomed to only bring in that kind of player with an influx of young portuguese players and nobody with any decent experience. People are only getting a bit enthusiastic about it because the manager for once is telling it like we see it. Can he put it right? who knows? will he be allowed to put it right? Again who knows? But it is nice to just feel that someone is at least recognising that these are problems and that is why the slight positivity, because if he can back his words with actions, if he can bring in the players that might start to make a difference, if he can keep some of our better players and get them playing to potential then we might just be onto a winner. words are cheap yes, but how long is it since anyone ever said those words? Time will tell with appleton, but I want to wait and see and whilst I'm doing that, because really there's nothing else we can do, I'm going to enjoy every bit of positive i can.

[47er]

I've got my opinion on Appleton on hold for a while. I'm on the record as opposing his appointment , but he's here and we have to hope it all turns out right. I agree the noises he is making are encouraging one's but that's the easy bit.

Football is and always will be a results game. If his noises turn into points I'll be a happy man.

If they don't I 'll put up with him till the end of the season. We're not going up or down so its all on hold for me.