[Archived] coaching staff changes

[perthblue02]

Just now, meadows said:

That still looks better than Pleasington was in the 80s/early 90d

A lot warmer as well

[Stuart]

22 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Sadly, the game has changed since Jack's original plans for the Academy which were to produce players for the club and for the Academy to become self-sufficient by selling those players who weren't good enough to clubs lower down the League ladder.  When the ITV deal with the Football League collapsed that ended that plan with money becoming increasing tight in the bottom two divisions.  The introduction of the Elite Performance Plan has changed the nature of Youth development and placed a huge amount of emphasis on facilities and backroom staff.  On the pitch, at Under-18 level anyway, we have proved we can compete with the big clubs but facility wise we can't without spending more and more money with every passing year.  Many Football League clubs opposed the Elite Performance Plan but had no option but to accept it because of the financial power of the Premier League.  Last season there were 24 Category One clubs - split into two divisions at Under-23 level - but the rest of the clubs seemed to manage very well by being in the other Categories.  Other clubs seem to be able to develop young players and bring them through into their senior teams, particularly in Leagues One and Two, without spending 3.5 million every year.

With limited resources the club has to make the most of them in the best way possible.  Personally, I don't see dropping into Category Two as being the end of the world but I accept that many will.

Excuses. We do not have limited resources. We have very rich owners.

Our issues are not the authorities, or 'the game,, or EPPP - they are symptoms. Our issue is Venkys.

Even with promotion this year, are they going to try to keep us in the Championship next time? If they scrap the academy (and are allowed to blame Mowbray) then will they reinstate it in future? Our past has been frittered away, our future is being done the same over time. It's slow motion asset stripping even to this day. But people make excuses for them every step of the way but will not stand up and fight for the club they love. "There's nothing we can do about it". So many instances throughout history could have been responded to in that way. More and more people seem to give up without even trying.

[JBiz]

23 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Excuses. We do not have limited resources. We have very rich owners.

Our issues are not the authorities, or 'the game,, or EPPP - they are symptoms. Our issue is Venkys.

Even with promotion this year, are they going to try to keep us in the Championship next time? If they scrap the academy (and are allowed to blame Mowbray) then will they reinstate it in future? Our past has been frittered away, our future is being done the same over time. It's slow motion asset stripping even to this day. But people make excuses for them every step of the way but will not stand up and fight for the club they love. "There's nothing we can do about it". So many instances throughout history could have been responded to in that way. More and more people seem to give up without even trying.

Excuses for them? I don't know how to tell you this but we have no say in how they choose to run the club bar renew or don't.

Do you really think they should be loading up the club with more debt? They've never once looked like spending money like Man City's or Chelsea's owners, is that the bar of expectation? 

Asset stripping is what comes after we are sold. I still cringe every time I read that, it's just not very bright to use the term, it doesn't fit the scenario unless you ignore the actual meaning of the term for what it sounds like.

Will we ever get out of this cycle of "oh you don't immediately want to boo and shout at a decision? You must be a Venkys apologist"? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

39 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Excuses. We do not have limited resources. We have very rich owners.

Our issues are not the authorities, or 'the game,, or EPPP - they are symptoms. Our issue is Venkys.

Even with promotion this year, are they going to try to keep us in the Championship next time? If they scrap the academy (and are allowed to blame Mowbray) then will they reinstate it in future? Our past has been frittered away, our future is being done the same over time. It's slow motion asset stripping even to this day. But people make excuses for them every step of the way but will not stand up and fight for the club they love. "There's nothing we can do about it". So many instances throughout history could have been responded to in that way. More and more people seem to give up without even trying.

What are you doing about it,  specifically? 

[JBiz]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What are you doing about it,  specifically? 

Well along with every other ST holder, according to a few ex-BRFCS posters, he is "funding corruption".. 

Should be ashamed  

[blueboy3333]

46 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Excuses. We do not have limited resources. We have very rich owners. 

But people make excuses for them every step of the way but will not stand up and fight for the club they love.

Bizarre comment.  We still have limited resources if the rich owners won't invest. That's not making an excuse for them, there's nothing a supporter can do about it and it's really odd you'd continue to insist there is.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Suhail Slayer said:

You may be right

But some supporters are trying to do things about it.

Most are not.

Which is why Stuart has been asked what he's doing about it as he's the one who consistently attacks others for not doing anything.

[Skiptonrover]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Bizarre comment.  We still have limited resources if the rich owners won't invest. That's not making an excuse for them, there's nothing a supporter can do about it and it's really odd you'd continue to insist there is.

Odd it's absolutely insane. He seems to disregard facts & calls them excuses.

[Skiptonrover]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Which is why Stuart has been asked what he's doing about it as he's the one who consistently attacks others for not doing anything.

Maybe there's nothing that can be done apart from ride it out & see where we end up. After 7 years of intense disharmony we've dropped 2 divisions. So based on that FACT you could logically argue that alot of ill feeling has actually been counter productive whether them intentions have been sincere I don't think is in any doubt but the end result is laid bare. It's nothing to do with standing up & fighting it's acknowledging & realising something that is been done clearly isn't working & a different approach is needed.

[JacknOry]

42 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

Maybe there's nothing that can be done apart from ride it out & see where we end up. After 7 years of intense disharmony we've dropped 2 divisions. So based on that FACT you could logically argue that alot of ill feeling has actually been counter productive whether them intentions have been sincere I don't think is in any doubt but the end result is laid bare. It's nothing to do with standing up & fighting it's acknowledging & realising something that is been done clearly isn't working & a different approach is needed.

Just bend over and take it up the behind then? That's the alternative?

[AllRoverAsia]

 

6 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Which is why Stuart has been asked what he's doing about it as he's the one who consistently attacks others for not doing anything.

He is not alone though.

Others, like me, can't be arsed bothering arguing anymore with strangers on MBs.

[AllRoverAsia]

43 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

Maybe there's nothing that can be done apart from ride it out & see where we end up. After 7 years of intense disharmony we've dropped 2 divisions. So based on that FACT you could logically argue that alot of ill feeling has actually been counter productive whether them intentions have been sincere I don't think is in any doubt but the end result is laid bare. It's nothing to do with standing up & fighting it's acknowledging & realising something that is been done clearly isn't working & a different approach is needed.

Utter claptrap.

Blaming fans. Disgraceful behaviour.

Wow that was well contained!

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Utter claptrap.

Blaming fans. Disgraceful behaviour.

Wow that was well contained!

True colours slowly seeping out.

 

On the academy far be it from me to agree with jimbo but he has a point about the old style way of players going out on loan and maybe getting young players in who've seen a bit of action.  I certainly have always been of the opinion that Lowe, Henley and one or two others would have been better players after lengthy lower league loans early on.

But at Rovers we have the academy and it's been built into Cat 1 so they should use it as such and try and get the best out of it and for me it's just another staggering example of Venky incompetence, one day we'll do it like this next day we won't etc.

Never a big fan of the academy system overall though really it produces too many robots and snowflakes but it should be operated with onus on lower league clubs running them and those higher up then buying players with match experience. Money goes from top to bottom better that way.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Utter claptrap.

Blaming fans. Disgraceful behaviour.

Wow that was well contained!

How you read that post and get blaming fans is completely beyond my understanding.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Biz said:

How you read that post and get blaming fans is completely beyond my understanding.

I read it. Did you ?

Get?

Give me your understanding of that post then if I am so wrong.

[Skiptonrover]

8 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Just bend over and take it up the behind then? That's the alternative?

Of course not! My way is keeping doors open & engagement & open dialogue.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bluebarley said:

Of course not! My way is keeping doors open & engagement & open dialogue.

Venky's dont do engagement or open dialogue and their doors are ALWAYS closed.

[JBiz]

29 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I read it. Did you ?

Get?

Give me your understanding of that post then if I am so wrong.

Yea, I'd say it was fair disrespectful imo to call it claptrap purely because you disagreed with one sentence between another 10/15.

My interpretation was that this wasn't much new. He made one sentence (semi decent point imo) about anger getting us nowhere or being counter productive. Are you arguing that the snowball was productive? 

[AllRoverAsia]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

Yea, I'd say it was fair disrespectful imo to call it claptrap purely because you disagreed with one sentence between another 10/15.

My interpretation was that this wasn't much new. He made one sentence (semi decent point imo) about anger getting us nowhere or being counter productive. Are you arguing that the snowball was productive? 

Quote "After 7 years of intense disharmony we've dropped 2 divisions. So based on that FACT you could logically argue that alot of ill feeling has actually been counter productive"

Snowball? Nice deflection tactic.

[JBiz]

9 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Quote "After 7 years of intense disharmony we've dropped 2 divisions. So based on that FACT you could logically argue that alot of ill feeling has actually been counter productive"

Snowball? Nice deflection tactic.

You're deflecting. Suggesting anger, protesting and indifference between the fans has been potentially "counter productive" is not blaming the fans.

It's a shame that people can't avoid being grouped or labelled just because they have their view.

Who is a responsible? Ultimately it's always Venkys. The point that some of the actions taken might not have actually helped in the way intended is not defence of their actions. 

[Skiptonrover]

8 minutes ago, Biz said:

You're deflecting. Suggesting anger, protesting and indifference between the fans has been potentially "counter productive" is not blaming the fans.

It's a shame that people can't avoid being grouped or labelled just because they have their view.

Who is a responsible? Ultimately it's always Venkys. The point that some of the actions taken might not have actually helped in the way intended is not defence of their actions. 

Basically all I was saying is everything which is anti-establishment hasn't helped in terms of progress (could say opposite) without necessarily blaming certain individuals. I'm not digging a hole or getting drawn into arguments. I believe in reverse psychology to a degree to combat problems. Doing what isn't expected rather than the norm of what is expected. The earlier post wasn't meant to cause offence just suggesting there's other ways to achieve better outcomes.

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

Excuses for them? I don't know how to tell you this but we have no say in how they choose to run the club bar renew or don't.

Do you really think they should be loading up the club with more debt? They've never once looked like spending money like Man City's or Chelsea's owners, is that the bar of expectation? 

Asset stripping is what comes after we are sold. I still cringe every time I read that, it's just not very bright to use the term, it doesn't fit the scenario unless you ignore the actual meaning of the term for what it sounds like.

Will we ever get out of this cycle of "oh you don't immediately want to boo and shout at a decision? You must be a Venkys apologist"? 

Couldn't disagree more.

Do straw man arguments somehow make you feel superior? If you don't boo and shout, of course that doesn't automatically make you an apologist.

You are not daft, nor do I think that you are as naive as that post suggests. But only a fool could look at the last 7 years and have a positive view about the direction the club is going in. You seem to be equating asset stripping with profiteering, when all that we have seen is assets being stripped from the club - for whatever reason.

If one looks for reasons to justify the club's position (despite the Raos being very wealthy owners) then yes, it would mean making apologies on their behalf.

I'm sorry but we can't expect them to invest because of FFP...

I'm sorry but we can't be held to ransom by mercenary players...

I'm sorry but no decent manager would touch us with a barge pole...

I'm sorry but the players we are letting go just aren't good enough...

I'm sorry but the players not performing isn't the fault of the manager or the owners...

I'm sorry but we can't expect to compete with the likes of Huddersfield...

I'm sorry but academies are just not cost effective for a League One club...

I'm sorry but we can't expect to hold on to our brighter youngsters because of EPPP...

Meanwhile Rovers are badly and deeply affected and the Raos continue to make pots of cash for their shareholders.

Some people are trying to excuse our current situation because of the normal problems in football. Our situation is not normal, it is artificial and we remain on a downward trajectory.

It's one thing supporting the club through thick and thin. It's another to make excuses to avoid holding Venkys accountable just because there's nothing we can do about them people have not done anything whilst watching our demise and now, I would speculate, wish to absolve themselves of any guilt. 10,000 fans marching against Kean may have brought about an earlier change when we still had options, instead we had 1% and played into the hands of those with money to make out of our ruin. Now "we are where we are".

I know you won't like this post - or are likely to take offence on behalf of others - but there it is.

[den]

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Just bend over and take it up the behind then? That's the alternative?

The alternative is for the owners to put that £5m every transfer window into the club - like they promised they would.

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

Excuses. We do not have limited resources. We have very rich owners.

Our issues are not the authorities, or 'the game,, or EPPP - they are symptoms. Our issue is Venkys.

Even with promotion this year, are they going to try to keep us in the Championship next time? If they scrap the academy (and are allowed to blame Mowbray) then will they reinstate it in future? Our past has been frittered away, our future is being done the same over time. It's slow motion asset stripping even to this day. But people make excuses for them every step of the way but will not stand up and fight for the club they love. "There's nothing we can do about it". So many instances throughout history could have been responded to in that way. More and more people seem to give up without even trying.

 

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What are you doing about it,  specifically? 

I will ask again Stuart,I think you may have missed my first comment.  What are you doing about it? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, den said:

The alternative is for the owners to put that £5m every transfer window into the club - like they promised they would.

They did not have any idea of what owning and running a football club actually involved. How the Walker trust sold it to them, I will never understand.