Pre season 23/24

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, MarkBRFC said:

It's 1 year in, he's not a miracle worker.

Amazing you never had these issues under the last blokes 5 year journey.

Now that was dull.

I don’t recall ever pinching myself to stay awake watching our defence and goalkeeper pass it around then. Remember, this entire discussion started because I find the football boring.
 

I can agree with everyone about giving someone time and the scenario also of being first in English leagues, arriving late etc. I get all of that.

I just cannot stand this dot to dot stuff. I know yesterday was only pre season, but the first 30 minutes just felt like a prelude to more frustration. 

[roversfan99]

Not comparable situations. Mowbray inherited a side full of ageing freebies 2/3 of the way into a season in which we were in the bottom 3. Tomasson inherited a team that had finished 8th, yes 3 players left due to poor ownership but they were replaced with players who we paid fees for. And we signed more loans to replace the ones that left.

I know Mowbray bashing is the forums favourite past time but why it can't be a case of Mowbray has gone having left us in a much more favourable place than he inherited and a focus on what Tomasson can do to push us further is beyond me.

The question is, will the new style allow us to push on and finally break into the top 6. When the style really bedded in, results actually dipped even though performances improved, so the acid test is seeing if they correlate this season.

[MarkBRFC]

3 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I don’t recall ever pinching myself to stay awake watching our defence and goalkeeper pass it around then. Remember, this entire discussion started because I find the football boring.
 

Watch any of our games under Mowbray from August 19 to August 21. It was full of them when he tried his horrible version of possession football.

Don't get me wrong there was some shockers last season, but it was much better than any of that garbage.

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by MarkBRFC

[SBlue]

1 minute ago, JBiz said:

Many loose and unnecessary passes + weak as piss unorganised defending against basics = the whole issue I have with JDTs “journey”.

The end. I hope I have to eat these words ASAP.

That’s not the fault of “playing it out from the back”. You seem to have taken a throwaway interview comment about “only increasing value” a little literally too.

But why does that increase value? Because more clubs want players who can do that. Why do they want players who can do that? Because statistically keeping the ball and building from the back leads to retaining possession and better results than getting the ball forwards at the very first opportunity. It isn’t some world football conspiracy against Tony Pulis. 
 

We didn’t play possession for possession sake like a Swansea imo (and like we tried for one weird TM season), and in my opinion we improved and started moving the ball crisply and with confidence. I think the team is going places, mainly because of good coaching.

If we carry on in that vein, I don’t think you’ll be “bored”, but try and stop yourself booing if we’re patient in the build up and do remember the good points/moves/goals created and not just the (inevitable) odd mistake.

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not comparable situations. Mowbray inherited a side full of ageing freebies 2/3 of the way into a season in which we were in the bottom 3. Tomasson inherited a team that had finished 8th, yes 3 players left due to poor ownership but they were replaced with players who we paid fees for. And we signed more loans to replace the ones that left.

I know Mowbray bashing is the forums favourite past time but why it can't be a case of Mowbray has gone having left us in a much more favourable place than he inherited and a focus on what Tomasson can do to push us further is beyond me.

The question is, will the new style allow us to push on and finally break into the top 6. When the style really bedded in, results actually dipped even though performances improved, so the acid test is seeing if they correlate this season.

It was not 3 players.

Both first choice centre backs gone in Van Hecke and Lenihen.

First choice Rb gone and Rothwell our best midfielder.

Plus Khadra .

That's 5 from our strongest 11 that season.

 

[JBiz]

 

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You not bothered about our style of play but then complains about us being possession based team under JDT. We finished in our highest league position since our relegation from the PL. 

I’m not bothered about directness, wing play, a number ten, 3 at the back - whatever. Not fussed, I don’t know enough about tactics to have a stake in that argument.

I find this particular brand incredibly boring at times to watch. As a fan. No amount of repeating yourself (I mean how many times do you want to type “highest league finish since relegation”?) is going to change that.

I want to be proven wrong and excited about watching rovers. 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, islander200 said:

It was not 3 players.

Both first choice centre backs gone in Van Hecke and Lenihen.

First choice Rb gone and Rothwell our best midfielder.

Plus Khadra .

That's 5 from our strongest 11 that season.

 

3 permanent players. All replaced by players with fees.

Loans allowed to replace those who left.

Either way, the states of the club that both inherited are chalk and cheese, therefore Mowbray bashing is an unnecessary aspect to judging Tomasson and the style of play. 

 

[JBiz]

6 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Watch any of our games under Mowbray from August 19 to August 21. It was full of them when he tried his horrible version of possession football.

Don't get me wrong there was some shockers last season, but it was much better than any of that garbage.

 

I remember frustration about creativity or final ball (I’ve had a ST for donkeys years and watched those games btw) and I certainly remember head in my hands defending….

However, I do not recall ever sitting there thinking “wtf are we even trying to achieve?”

6 minutes ago, SBlue said:

That’s not the fault of “playing it out from the back”. You seem to have taken a throwaway interview comment about “only increasing value” a little literally too.

But why does that increase value? Because more clubs want players who can do that. Why do they want players who can do that? Because statistically keeping the ball and building from the back leads to retaining possession and better results than getting the ball forwards at the very first opportunity. It isn’t some world football conspiracy against Tony Pulis. 
 

We didn’t play possession for possession sake like a Swansea imo (and like we tried for one weird TM season), and in my opinion we improved and started moving the ball crisply and with confidence. I think the team is going places, mainly because of good coaching.

If we carry on in that vein, I don’t think you’ll be “bored”, but try and stop yourself booing if we’re patient in the build up and do remember the good points/moves/goals created and not just the (inevitable) odd mistake.

I would say that we’ve shown at times exactly the Russel Martin nonsense argument - especially at home, especially this year.

The relentless short passing from set pieces in our own half has caused so many issues and perseverance with it fills me with dread.

It doesn’t need to be the exact opposite either, a style that relies solely on physical stats and set pieces. I’m sure even some minor aspects of “Pulis” in our approach would help, like a good old fashioned “when in doubt rule”..

I appreciate the business aspect involved in sustainability, where the “value added” stuff belongs - and the only way to evaluate that is long term, hence why I’m no in anyway trying to advocate any changes of personnel. I don’t do that anyway.

I just can sense this is going to be a long fucking season. Please prove me wrong.

[islander200]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

3 permanent players. All replaced by players with fees.

Loans allowed to replace those who left.

Either way, the states of the club that both inherited are chalk and cheese, therefore Mowbray bashing is an unnecessary aspect to judging Tomasson and the style of play. 

 

How? 

Mowbray had 5 years in the job.He also had the time in the first season to keep us up and he didn't .Don't blame him for the relegation but I am much more confident with JDT than I ever was with Mowbray 

8th his highest finish,JDT surpassed that in his first season.

Yeah Mowbray did come in with the squad in worse shape but he had time and the luxury of spending £13 million on 3 strikers in Armstrong, Gallagher and Brererton.

And like iv said 5 players were gone from the first I don't care wether they were loans or not .It's still nearly half a team 

Edited July 9, 2023 by islander200

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

How? 

Mowbray had 5 years in the job.

8th his highest finish,JDT surpassed that in his first season.

Yeah Mowbray did come in with the squad in worse shape but he had time and the luxury of spending £13 million on 3 strikers in Armstrong, Gallagher and Brererton.

And like iv said 5 players were gone from the first I don't care wether they were loans or not .It's still nearly half a team 

His first transfer window was ahead of a League 1 season. Apart from a few good veterans, there was barely any quality at the club when he joined.  Obviously their jobs were massively different.

Mowbray did a pretty good job, made us much better than when he came in, and moved on. His net spend across those five years can't have been much more than nil. 

If Tomasson had 5 years, direct comparisons would be futile because the jobs would be from totally contrasting starts. But as I said, it's irrelevant to the point about Tomasson and the style he is bringing in anyway, he has different targets and it is all about building upon those good foundations.

[SBlue]

8 minutes ago, JBiz said:

 

The relentless short passing from set pieces in our own half has caused so many issues and perseverance with it fills me with dread.

It doesn’t need to be the exact opposite either, a style that relies solely on physical stats and set pieces. I’m sure even some minor aspects of “Pulis” in our approach would help, like a good old fashioned “when in doubt rule”..

I appreciate the business aspect involved in sustainability, where the “value added” stuff belongs - and the only way to evaluate that is long term, hence why I’m no in anyway trying to advocate any changes of personnel. I don’t do that anyway.

I just can sense this is going to be a long fucking season. Please prove me wrong.

I think that in particular is what we got better at judging as the season went on.

I suspect less Morton/Travis and more of Wharton/Buckley/Tronstad (hopefully) will cut out the hesitation and pondering, getting us on the front foot quicker.

It’ll fly by. Gonna piss it.

[islander200]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

His first transfer window was ahead of a League 1 season. Apart from a few good veterans, there was barely any quality at the club when he joined.  Obviously their jobs were massively different.

Mowbray did a pretty good job, made us much better than when he came in, and moved on. His net spend across those five years can't have been much more than nil. 

If Tomasson had 5 years, direct comparisons would be futile because the jobs would be from totally contrasting starts. But as I said, it's irrelevant to the point about Tomasson and the style he is bringing in anyway, he has different targets and it is all about building upon those good foundations.

Nil?By selling Armstrong and Raya? Oh I forgot you don't think loans and free transfers cost any money because Gallagher, Brererton and Armstrong weren't the only players signed in Mowbrays tenure.

I just think it is a total nonsense to say JDT took over a team that had just finished 8th.

He didn't ...no matter what way you try to paint it 5 from that team that finished 8th had left the club.And  I don't know why JDT being able to replace them makes a difference?

It still doesn't make it the team that finished 8th

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by islander200

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Nil?By selling Armstrong and Raya? Oh I forgot you don't think loans and free transfers cost any money because Gallagher, Brererton and Armstrong weren't the only players signed in Mowbrays tenure.

I just think it is a total nonsense to say JDT took over a team that had just finished 8th.

He didn't ...no matter what way you try to paint it 5 from that team that finished 8th had left the club.And  I don't know why JDT being able to replace them makes a difference?

It still doesn't make it the team that finished 7th

 

Obviously I mean in terms of fees. Every manager ever has signed players, no one would say bloody hell, wasn't Coyle lucky to spend all that money on freebies and loans when he was manager.

You've gone off on a massive tangent here. My point was that they both inherited massively different situations, you agreed. Therefore, talk of if Tomasson had 5 years v Mowbray's 5 is moot, incomparable.

You could say that he hasn't this season got the team that finished 7th, no Brereton, no Morton, no Thomas, no Dack, no Ayala. At least he had some money to play with last season.

The discussion was about Tomasson and his style of play. 

[chaddyrovers]

57 minutes ago, JBiz said:

 

I’m not bothered about directness, wing play, a number ten, 3 at the back - whatever. Not fussed, I don’t know enough about tactics to have a stake in that argument.

Well I know plenty of tactics 

57 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I find this particular brand incredibly boring at times to watch. As a fan. No amount of repeating yourself (I mean how many times do you want to type “highest league finish since relegation”?) is going to change that.

its a fact and I didn't find us boring to watch either

57 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I want to be proven wrong and excited about watching rovers. 

I just want us to win and play good attacking football

[sandstorm]

Still nothing on Fleetwood tickets?

[booth]

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

I don’t recall ever pinching myself to stay awake watching our defence and goalkeeper pass it around then. Remember, this entire discussion started because I find the football boring.
 

I can agree with everyone about giving someone time and the scenario also of being first in English leagues, arriving late etc. I get all of that.

I just cannot stand this dot to dot stuff. I know yesterday was only pre season, but the first 30 minutes just felt like a prelude to more frustration. 

"This is dross." A match day remark seen on many a match thread when TM was in charge.

I wish it was as easy to forget for me. Especially this record breaking result.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59059048
 

[Mattyblue]

38 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well I know plenty of tactics 

 

Well I have one hundred and four friends.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

Well I have one hundred and four friends.

I think he means Tic-Tacs.

[DeeCee]

Is this the bitching thread?

[wilsdenrover]

4 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

Is this the bitching thread?

It’s one of them…

[RoversTilliDie]

It was nice to see Hedges and Dolan on the score sheet yesterday.

[Exiled_Rover]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

3 permanent players. All replaced by players with fees.

Loans allowed to replace those who left.

Either way, the states of the club that both inherited are chalk and cheese, therefore Mowbray bashing is an unnecessary aspect to judging Tomasson and the style of play. 

 

Mowbray turned us into a club again after the disaster that preceded him. He stayed 2 years too long.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Exiled_Rover

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, SBlue said:

I think that in particular is what we got better at judging as the season went on.

I suspect less Morton/Travis and more of Wharton/Buckley/Tronstad (hopefully) will cut out the hesitation and pondering, getting us on the front foot quicker.

It’ll fly by. Gonna piss it.

Pretty much - passing out from the back requires the CMs (and FBs) to show for the ball from the CBs to play a simple pass to them. As great as it was to watch Adarabioyo and Mulgrew act as a playmaker from CB, that's not actually the requirement in this system. 

It's no coincidence that the good run of performances post World Cup coincided with Buckley and A. Wharton forcing themselves into the team - both can receive the ball in tight spaces and play on the half turn (Garrett has shown some ability to do this, but obviously not enough for JDT). Morton hid too often (and then usually just gave the ball back to the CB anyway) and Travis was taken out of the firing line and told to line up next to Szmodics when we had possession after that PNE calamity. 

[Exiled_Rover]

48 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

It was nice to see Hedges and Dolan on the score sheet yesterday.

I call Hedges the nearly man. He's nearly a fantastic Championship player - hopefully he can kick on this season. 

[Upside Down]

14 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Exactly, it’s awful to watch. Lots of scary passing around in the danger areas before somebody sends a ball forward to another player further up the pitch. This player is inevitably running back towards his own goal to receive the ball. He either gets tackled  or hoofs a blind pass around the corner to no one in particular. Too much walking football. Unless you’re Bryan Douglas it’s really difficult to beat an opponent once you’re stood still.

For their first goal they banged an ale house ball out of defence onto our left flank,, Wharton had gone somewhere to buy a pie or a cup of coffee, and they score with ease. One pass and we open up like the Red Sea.

Ultimately that is what cost us last season. Maggot and co sabotaging the January transfer window and the handball from the Coventry keeper played their part too, but we pissed away so many games by trying these bullshit tactics that will only lead to failure unless you are 2009 era Barcelona or Brasil when they were at their peak