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[JHRover]

And again - my view of things, right or wrong - is that there has always been a form of a power struggle behind the scenes between two opposing camps. 

Mowbray and his mate Waggott managed to get their feet under the table and establish control and a degree of normality at the club for a number of years, but it looks to me like the shadow man and whoever he works for/represents/acts for patiently waited and over the last 2-3 years has managed to establish sole control again, just as he did in 2015-17

The parallels are clear -

A long standing and popular manager (Bowyer/Mowbray) is removed from position, both of which once had close and positive relations with those in India, and the most senior person around the place when it happens is the curtain twitcher stooge.

There's an initial 'ambitious' new regime put in place (Lambert/Irvine, Broughton/JDT) and for a short while people are quite excited and confident in the direction we are going and there's a lot of ambitious talk around the place.

There's then a sudden 'change' in circumstances involving a sudden moving of the goalposts/change in budgets that undermines the ambition and leads to those people getting out of here as quickly as they can.

Then a wrecking ball is taken to what was a solid competitive Championship squad, popular players bundled out the back door, tens of millions in transfer fees disappear, huge turnover in players.

And inevitably we reach a point where relegation becomes highly likely once an inferior manager comes in to replace the decent one and there's little quality left in the squad to prop it up. 

2023-25 is almost identical to 2015-17. We know how that ended up and we know what the constants have been during that time. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

In my view not, but, there's an offshoot of Kentaro HSH based in Middlesbrough run by a former Kentaro guy Craig Honeyman which has clearly had heavy links to the Club up until recently especially when Mowbray was here. Think they represented him as well.

Closer than that Rev

Stephen Horner lives in Brindle.

[RoversClitheroe]

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And again - my view of things, right or wrong - is that there has always been a form of a power struggle behind the scenes between two opposing camps. 

Mowbray and his mate Waggott managed to get their feet under the table and establish control and a degree of normality at the club for a number of years, but it looks to me like the shadow man and whoever he works for/represents/acts for patiently waited and over the last 2-3 years has managed to establish sole control again, just as he did in 2015-17

The parallels are clear -

A long standing and popular manager (Bowyer/Mowbray) is removed from position, both of which once had close and positive relations with those in India, and the most senior person around the place when it happens is the curtain twitcher stooge.

There's an initial 'ambitious' new regime put in place (Lambert/Irvine, Broughton/JDT) and for a short while people are quite excited and confident in the direction we are going and there's a lot of ambitious talk around the place.

There's then a sudden 'change' in circumstances involving a sudden moving of the goalposts/change in budgets that undermines the ambition and leads to those people getting out of here as quickly as they can.

Then a wrecking ball is taken to what was a solid competitive Championship squad, popular players bundled out the back door, tens of millions in transfer fees disappear, huge turnover in players.

And inevitably we reach a point where relegation becomes highly likely once an inferior manager comes in to replace the decent one and there's little quality left in the squad to prop it up. 

2023-25 is almost identical to 2015-17. We know how that ended up and we know what the constants have been during that time. 

It's actually crazy if Jerome is still involved.

Mowbray as everyone probably knows I'm absolutely against and not a fan. But respect to the guy going to India, maybe without authorisation from Suhail? Still baffles me he tempered there alleged want to spend money.

Suhail and Jerome (if the rumours are true) are the constant to fucking this club up.

[lraC]

1 minute ago, RoversClitheroe said:

It's actually crazy if Jerome is still involved.

Mowbray as everyone probably knows I'm absolutely against and not a fan. But respect to the guy going to India, maybe without authorisation from Suhail? Still baffles me he tempered there alleged want to spend money.

Suhail and Jerome (if the rumours are true) are the constant to fucking this club up.

Suhail worked for Kentaro. As we saw with the minutes from the 2017 fans meeting, Mike Cheston was playing down Pashas role. He claimed he did not know his name or his job title and also eventually admitted he worked at the club, after initially suggesting he just worked for several business that the owners have, under their portfolio.

Why has Pasha been hiding and how come so many people are linked to Kean  still, who end up at the club?

[RevidgeBlue]

13 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Closer than that Rev

Stephen Horner lives in Brindle.

Ah OK.

Odds are they're still heavily involved then.

We had that ridiculous conflict of interest situation didn't we a few years ago when it was in the best interests of the Club to offload Smallwood and whether Mowbray did or didn't want to get rid,  the fact they were both represented by HSH was far from ideal.

Edited 6 hours ago by RevidgeBlue

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

One thing is for sure...this lot whoever they  REALLY are running/involved/ruining our Club have kept matters very secretive and tight behind the scenes.They appear to have a ring of Steel around their network.

It begs the question what sort of honest,transparent,fan-friendly Owners would operate and run a Business with impunity in the manner as above,without doubts and fears on a possible ulterior motive coming to the fore with the Stakeholders (fans)?

Like Dave Whelan said this didn't feel right from the start.

[SuperBrfc]

4 hours ago, philipl said:

Talking of stables, I was told it was alleged that there were 143 "independent" agents in the Kentaro stable.

All totally against the rules of the game if that rumour were true.

And clubs had no idea they were in negotiations with the same people on both sides...

Jerome of course took a fee from both the Trust and Venkys for the sale of Rovers but that was visible to both parties apparently.

The bit in bold is interesting as it could theoretically apply to our owners and the conduit too, if true. What I mean is, there was news of a so called falling out between the owners and Kentaro around 2011/12-ish and that the dispute was going to be taken to court. It was eventually settled out of court around 2013. That was the last we heard on that and the Venky's- Kentaro link apparently soured at that point.

Assuming that to be true, why then did we choose to appoint managers and sign a few players connected to a Kentaro offshoot for years AFTER the above dispute between Venky's-Kentaro? Is it simply that the owners had no idea that the offshoot were close to the very people they 'fell out' with? (which is where the bit in bold could apply) Or is it that they left it to their trusted conduit here to handle matters? The conduit, not knowing how the game works, but having past friends and agent connections who could help him? Or him not knowing the backgrounds of the new agencies sat before him? If Kentaro had 143 agents in their stable, it's fair to say that even an experienced football operator might not know or recognise all of them. Never mind a non footballing man well out of his depth at a club that is too big for him to handle.

Whatever it may be, official FA Agent documents show that we sold four players from 2016-2024 for a combined £18m. On each of those four deals a former SEM-Kentaro agent represented the club during the four exits. The last one was in 2024. Last year. Also, a loan signing we made last year...the agent that sat on the deal is a former Kentaro consultant. Now, I don't know how this works. Does an agent offer their services to a club by saying they can help the club out in such an instance i.e a player sale, purchase etc, and the club either accepts or turns the offer down? Or does a senior person at a club choose an agent to represent the club in a deal?

If we are to assume that the agency stuff is all conspiracy, as many do, and that all of this is nothing more than clueless owners thousands of miles away who aren't arsed about football and an equally clueless conduit who knows nothing about the game, both showing themselves to be out of their depths, fair enough. It has some logic to it. However, there have been many coincidences that have popped up since 2010 and are still popping up to this day. At some point people start noticing these coincidences and patterns, especially when they keep pointing in the same direction.

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

Whatever it may be, official FA Agent documents show that we sold four players from 2016-2024 for a combined £18m. On each of those four deals a former SEM-Kentaro agent represented the club during the four exits. 

Not saying that what you're saying is wrong but why would we need an agent to represent us on the sale of a player.

[lraC]

25 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not saying that what you're saying is wrong but why would we need an agent to represent us on the sale of a player.

It’s speculation again on my part, but if we have agents de facto owning the club, it could be in said agents interest to ensure things run smoothly. 

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, lraC said:

It’s speculation again on my part, but if we have agents de facto owning the club, it could be in said agents interest to ensure things run smoothly. 

Maybe, but if true we're unnecessarily paying another agent for no good reason whatsoever. 

Lining agent's pockets twice on the same deal.

[lraC]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Maybe, but if true we're unnecessarily paying another agent for no good reason whatsoever. 

Lining agent's pockets twice on the same deal.

Paying yourself effectively when you think about it, which could be the key. 

[SuperBrfc]

32 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not saying that what you're saying is wrong but why would we need an agent to represent us on the sale of a player.

I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming it's to do with carrying out the formalities, paperwork etc on behalf of the club.

I recommend everybody to go through the official FA Agent Transactions documents which can be found on the link below. I think they start off from 2014/15 and go right up until last season.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/policies/player-status---agents/football-agent-transactions

The earlier documents clearly have a heading on the far side titled 'Former Club IM (intermediary)'. I take that to mean the agent who represented the former club upon the sale of the player in question.

The more recent documents have a column titled 'Representing'. It then lists whether the agent involved was representing the player, the registering club (i.e his new club), or his former club or a combination of any of those.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, lraC said:

But you just said you haven’t read the minutes. Please read both version 1 and then version 2 and answer honestly if you still can’t understand, why people are questioning him. 

Yet again both Glen Mullan and K-hod have said he isn't at fault yet you continue this personal witch hunt of a very good person in O2G and someone who has been doing the minutes for a very long time for the fans forum. 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Why?

Haven't got around to reading them for a range of reasons. Is there a timeline that the minutes must be read by? Must have that one 😁

2 hours ago, Hasta said:

Here you go Chaddy

If the club are refusing to publish these as an honest representation of the meeting, who do you think is lying - The club? Or every fans forum attendee who agreed that these minutes are accurate?

 

I know where the minutes are the Rovers website thanks Hasta, don't need a link, I am more than capable of reading them when I can. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Someone who is massively invested in the club, with no interest to read them?

Someone who is massively interested in transfers, not interested in the board and fans discussing budgets etc.

Someone who is more interested than anyone in staff movements and even once demanded successfully that Waggott chased up putting staff profiles on the website. Not interested in staff changes being discussed.

And other things. No thank you.

where did I said I have no interested in the reading the minutes? making shit again RF99!!!!!!!!

I will read the minutes when I get the proper chance to sit down and read them. Is that actually ok or are you going to try to force me to read them by yours and other people deadline? Its quite funny and interesting how many of you lot are on your high horses over these minutes. 

[wilsdenrover]

10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Maybe, but if true we're unnecessarily paying another agent for no good reason whatsoever. 

Lining agent's pockets twice on the same deal.

Moves the money from inside the club to outside the club. 🧐🤔

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yet again both Glen Mullan and K-hod have said he isn't at fault yet you continue this personal witch hunt of a very good person in O2G and someone who has been doing the minutes for a very long time for the fans forum. 

Haven't got around to reading them for a range of reasons. Is there a timeline that the minutes must be read by? Must have that one 😁

I know where the minutes are the Rovers website thanks Hasta, don't need a link, I am more than capable of reading them when I can. 

where did I said I have no interested in the reading the minutes? making shit again RF99!!!!!!!!

I will read the minutes when I get the proper chance to sit down and read them. Is that actually ok or are you going to try to force me to read them by yours and other people deadline? Its quite funny and interesting how many of you lot are on your high horses over these minutes. 

Unless you read the minutes, you are very much in the dark, about the first set (written by OGG’s) and the huge differences in the second set (written by GM) once you have read both sets, please feel free to come back and lambast me, if you don’t feel that I have just cause to question why the first set did not include any controversial points, which were raised according to all who attended. 

[RevidgeBlue]

16 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming it's to do with carrying out the formalities, paperwork etc on behalf of the club.

I recommend everybody to go through the official FA Agent Transactions documents which can be found on the link below. I think they start off from 2014/15 and go right up until last season.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/policies/player-status---agents/football-agent-transactions

The earlier documents clearly have a heading on the far side titled 'Former Club IM (intermediary)'. I take that to mean the agent who represented the former club upon the sale of the player in question.

The more recent documents have a column titled 'Representing'. It then lists whether the agent involved was representing the player, the registering club (i.e his new club), or his former club or a combination of any of those.

Im going to "do a chaddy" on this one if you dont mind and refrain from ploughing through those.

It still seems odd to me that any Club would need to employ an agent when selling a player. Surely the CEO/Club Secretary etc should be capable of handling it?

Is it standard practice within the game do we know?

[RevidgeBlue]

15 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Moves the money from inside the club to outside the club. 🧐🤔

To what end? 

[wilsdenrover]

20 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

To what end? 

To make people richer (by taking advantage of rich idiots).

Edited 2 hours ago by wilsdenrover

[Hasta]

42 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I know where the minutes are the Rovers website thanks Hasta, don't need a link, I am more than capable of reading them when I can. 

But surely you are interested in reading what the Fans Forum members say happened in the meeting? They will show you the absolute incompetence of Suhail Pasha and the extent that the football club will go to in order to avoid publishing the truth.

So please make sure you read the ones I have linked you to. I posted the link because it's been 4 days since they have been on here and you haven't commented on them, which is strange considering their content. Therefore I thought you may not have seen them. You're welcome 👍

Of course feel free to read them in your own time.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Hasta

[chaddyrovers]

26 minutes ago, lraC said:

Unless you read the minutes, you are very much in the dark, about the first set (written by OGG’s) and the huge differences in the second set (written by GM) once you have read both sets, please feel free to come back and lambast me, if you don’t feel that I have just cause to question why the first set did not include any controversial points, which were raised according to all who attended. 

I have said my part on this to you whilst 2 members of FF have said O2G isn't to blame here but yet you continue this personal witch hunt of yours. I have nothing to add to my original post on this. 

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, wilsdenrover said:

To make people richer. 

And "the Club" poorer.

Just thinking Ira's theory through - hypothetically if the Club was really owned by agents then you'd have no need to transfer money outside the Club as you already own it.

However if Venky's own it but have given unscrupulous types licence to run it on their behalf then you'd need to get money out of the Club to prosper and that's one pretty decent way, to needlessly appoint yourself as agent for the Club on any sale.

IF any of the above occurred you'd expect the other appointed Club officials to step in and stop it.

[Mike E]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It's a good job no-one is accusing him of being involved in the Great Train Robbery then!

Completely disagree Mike. I think John (O2G) is a really nice guy and Im sure everyone who meets him will say the same. Nevertheless I dont see how that stops anyone from being able to disagree with him occasionally.

I've complained in the past ( and received flak in the past from K Hod) about the apparent lack of resistance to Waggott just saying "Wont" "Can't" "Wasn't aware" or "We'll look into it" to everything at the meetings. According to the official minutes no-one said a dicky bird in response. I can only assume that everything that was said in the meetings  wasn't recorded.

Now it would appear from the last meeting that in the originally agreed minutes, not only have did we have large chunks which would have painted the Club in a bad light omitted, but embellishments that weren't said added to make the Club sound better. I.e. Pasha supposedly saying "sustainable but with the overall aim to becoming a viable Premier League Club" as opposed to just "sustainable" which was what GM and DM claim.

If wondering why this appears to have happened is "a witch hunt" then I'll run down to the shops now and get my pointy hat.

We've learnt more from this one meeting than we have from years of Waggott stonewalling questions. But none of it would have come out had GM and DM not dug their heels in about the minutes.

If O2G thinks anything said on this thread is factually incorrect or correct but unfair because there's a valid reason for it Im sure he'll give his side upon return from holiday.

I think they’re fact that you’ve described it yourself as ‘a witch hunt’ tells its own story.

I disagree with a poster being rounded on without the opportunity to defend themselves. As should any right-thinking person.

For a good couple of days certain posters have practically been begging Glen to throw O2G under the bus. There is a tone of ‘Go on Glen, name and shame, who should we hate next?’, and I’m glad he clearly has the restraint to have not done so.

Whatever people may think of the minute-taking, I got the feeling from a number of posts since the first mention of his being on holiday that they wanted specifically to target O2G for some sort of character assassination.

Perhaps my post was an over correction, but as a Mod, I want this place to remain a welcoming place, particularly for Rovers fans, and especially so for those fans who give their time to more than most fans do.

I also felt that if K-Hod were to have made a similar post, he would have been accused of nepotism or sticking up for the club or some other nonsense.

I was simply trying to nip in the bud any suggestion that O2G has maliciously done anything wrong, and (as I stated) focus ire on the actual wrong-doers.

My own takeaway from the most recent minutes is that the mechanism of them being delivered needs to change a bit. As an example:

When I take minutes of RT (or other) meetings, I make sure anyone who wants specific things mentioning to write them down in real time and pass to me at the end of the meeting. That way I collate everything agreeable. If anyone wants something omitting that someone else wants mentioning, then tough, it gets mentioned in the interests of honesty unless it specifically needs to be off record.

[RevidgeBlue]

11 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I think they’re fact that you’ve described it yourself as ‘a witch hunt’ tells its own story.

I disagree with a poster being rounded on without the opportunity to defend themselves. As should any right-thinking person.

It was my mistake to the extent I thought it was you who'd coined the phrase "witch hunt". Maybe it was chaddy?

On checking you actually used the phrase "outright harassment" which imo is equally sensationalist.

Why is it a crime to wonder why Forum minutes "appear" to have been edited or doctored or even embellished to make the Club look better?

And In what sense does 02G not have the opportunity to comment or defend himself? Im sure he will once he returns from holiday.

[wilsdenrover]

10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

And "the Club" poorer.

Just thinking Ira's theory through - hypothetically if the Club was really owned by agents then you'd have no need to transfer money outside the Club as you already own it.

However if Venky's own it but have given unscrupulous types licence to run it on their behalf then you'd need to get money out of the Club to prosper and that's one pretty decent way, to needlessly appoint yourself as agent for the Club on any sale.

IF any of the above occurred you'd expect the other appointed Club officials to step in and stop it.

Money left in the club would be swallowed up by the club’s losses.

Money taken out the club would add to the club’s loss but be in their pocket(s).

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Money left in the club would be swallowed up by the club’s losses.

Money taken out the club would add to the club’s loss but be in their pocket(s).

Ok but that assumes they're prepared to assume losses of tens of millions of pounds to pocket a few agent's fees.

Im not against anything that can be proven that shows wrongdoing on the part of the owners Im trying to figure out how it stacks up.

If that happened I think it comes under the envelope of Venky's being the real owners but being completely negligent and therefore the Club being ripped off, not for the first time imo.