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On 24/07/2020 at 20:06, Scotland1 said:

It’s one thing what annoys me is the likes of Leicester, Leeds, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace and Southampton all have been in administration at least once all have shafted creditors and now all earn mega millions and have never paid there dues 

As is the way in many sectors.
 

All I know is that if I were even the window cleaner at an EFL club I’d want cleared funds before I even moistened my chamois. 
 

Football clubs are chronically insolvent...

15 hours ago, Stuart said:

And yet the opposite is also true. If they get away with it, it would be a travesty. Hugely unfair on other clubs - especially Barnsley. The rules were known before the season started.

That said, despite having no sympathy for Wigan at this time, I agree with your sentiment. What I would prefer to see is that owners are held directly accountable and NOT clubs - which I firmly believe are “owned” by the fans - mainly through emotional investment but they are also helping to fund it.

Trouble is, what would happen if owners or limited companies were punished - a huge fine might mean the entire club folds as a bitter owner liquidates rather than going into administration?

Some ways I see that this could change:

One, the FA, PL and EFL get serious about the fit and proper persons test. There has to be a five year plan with some guarantees - I.e. cash up front for at least two seasons - with future debt not secured against the club or it’s assets (e.g. players or buy-and-lease-back stadiums) - goodbye Glazers et al.

Two, move to the German model where any owner only has a 49% share in the club, with 51% owned by clubs. This would be symbolic of course as the 49% would be stumping up most of the money but they would no longer be able to treat the fans with utter contempt. They would be involved in decisions about change of ownership. Some owners don’t see a club, a community, they see prestige, kudos, and maybe some kind of tax benefit. This needs to stop. Fans cannot be the only ones who suffer when things go wrong. This is where points deduction works yet doesn’t work: it can take away the prestige from an owner but it also impacts fans - for off-field events.

Bonus Three, scrap FFP in it’s current form. Control, not cash injection but debt secured against the club.

Unpallatable Four. Franchise the PL and leave the rest of the proper football league to be run as a sport, not a business - and watch the leeches crawl back to their swaps.

Leftfield Five. Clubs can only be owned by local people - and not conglomerates. The Jack-was-right-and-everyone else-was-wrong model. Football Armageddon but with the new football hierarchy genuinely linked to their communities.

Hence, option 4 please, with MASSIVE “solidarity payments” from this Super League.

The only thing that Wycombe Wanderers and Man Utd have in common is the rules. And I know whose side I’m on.

Salary cap.
Ticket price cap.
European Super League.

And a healthy, viable, English Football League for the first time in history.
 

No longer would REAL football, our shared cultural heritage, be affected by the whims of billionaires, oligarchs and despots.

 

It will happen some day.

Do it now.

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European super league has been talked about for over 20 years now.

It'll never, ever happen.

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19 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

European super league has been talked about for over 20 years now.

It'll never, ever happen.

BCD makes it easier.

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5 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

European super league has been talked about for over 20 years now.

It'll never, ever happen.

I sadly believe this to be true - I don't think it is in the best interests of anyone apart from the top three or four teams in the continent at the given time (Liverpool, Man City, Real Madrid, Barca and Juve for example right now). How do someone like Chelsea, Atletico Madrid or Dortmund sustain the model they've created for themselves when instead of competing successfully on weaker domestic fronts all of a sudden they're getting beaten every week by vastly superior, stronger teams? Much better for them to have the annual competition as it stands and build their foundations on Cup titles and top 4 finishes.

There's a really good book called Can We Have Our Football Back? by John Nicholson that goes down a lot of the roads @S8 & Blue's post above touched on - well recommended to everyone with that mindset.

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The mega clubs have one already. And they are seemingly happy enough to keep tinkering with the format of that to ensure they get ever richer.

Plus, for the English clubs they have the added advantage of being part of a league with a massive profile and following. So I don’t see the ‘big 6’ rocking the boat anytime soon.

It’s the clubs like Benfica, Celtic, Ajax that are desperate for one as they are massive clubs but can’t compete because their domestic leagues are local backwaters.
 

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6 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

European super league has been talked about for over 20 years now.

It'll never, ever happen.

The Big Clubs have already got kind of super league in the European Champions League which is all about the big clubs and it shouldn't be called the champions league anyway

6 hours ago, Stuart said:

BCD makes it easier.

No Stuart behind closed doors games shouldn't make it easy as clubs know they are nothing without fans in the stadiums cheering their team on

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12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The Big Clubs have already got kind of super league in the European Champions League which is all about the big clubs and it shouldn't be called the champions league anyway

No Stuart behind closed doors games shouldn't make it easy as clubs know they are nothing without fans in the stadiums cheering their team on

Did you even read the conversation before joining? Context.

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On 01/07/2020 at 18:44, Doogs said:

Couldnt care less about Wigan...A non league club at best..

Non league at best is a bit harsh. They won the FA cup less than 10 years ago. I’d say they are a club that is L1 at least.

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Cook will resign tomorrow. 

What next for Wigan? 

Need new owners in and plan going forward very quick..

But looks like a fire sale happening in terms of players leaving. 

So what squad will any new manager have there? 

Good luck whoever takes it on

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6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Saw this on twitter. Its an impressive record.

IMG_20200728_232743.jpg

Bloody hell he scouted Walton? 
 

Not worth the time it took to read that. It was literally the last word that blew me away 

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Wigan fans were after his head at the start of the year and now they are in mourning... football fans ay

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7 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Bloody hell he scouted Walton? 
 

Not worth the time it took to read that. It was literally the last word that blew me away 

Ha, yep, the whole post ruined by literally the last word.

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On 29/07/2020 at 09:02, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Walton always played well for Wigan when I saw him. 

I spoke to a Wigan fan about him around October last year. He suggested he had a very shaky start, but he felt he was pretty competent later in the season. I feel he's very much a confidence player, which is probably very risky with a keeper.

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Having looked at the situation at Wigan, I'd be surprised if they get docked points.   Would be very harsh and I don't like Wigan.  We, of all clubs should be sympathetic. 

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8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Having looked at the situation at Wigan, I'd be surprised if they get docked points.   Would be very harsh and I don't like Wigan.  We, of all clubs should be sympathetic. 

The rules are clear - go in to administration you get docked 12 points.

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1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The rules are clear - go in to administration you get docked 12 points.

And why did their former owner put them into administration? What did he gain from it?

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For some reason they are allowing Barnsley to make submissions at the appeal hearing today. Seems strange to me as whilst Barnsley are impacted by this surely the decision with Wigan should purely be on the basis of what has or hasn't happened there.

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

And why did their former owner put them into administration? What did he gain from it?

That's his business. Nothing to stop him demolishing their stadium if that's what he wants to do.

He owns them so it is his business. Only the same as why Venkys continue their reign of terror here. 

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Posted (edited)

Unless there is anything in the rules that says ‘12 point deduction... apart from if there is a force majeure/dodgy stuff going on in the Philippines’, I don’t see how they have a leg to stand on.

Dodgy owner doing dodgy stuff with his business doesn’t impact the EFL rule book, the league are simply making a reactive ruling to a club going into administration, they are not forensic accountants or the fraud squad, if it does get overturned then the rule is finished. 

Edited by Mattyblue

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13 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Unless there is anything in the rules that says ‘12 point deduction... apart from if there is a force majeure/dodgy stuff going on in the Philippines’, I don’t see how they have a leg to stand on.

Dodgy owner doing dodgy stuff with his business doesn’t impact the EFL rule book, the league are simply making a reactive ruling to a club going into administration, they are not forensic accountants or the fraud squad, if it does get overturned then the rule is finished. 

Completely agree. If they let Wigan off without a 12 point deduction, then Barnsley will surely take legal action and have a good case.

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9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Having looked at the situation at Wigan, I'd be surprised if they get docked points.   Would be very harsh and I don't like Wigan.  We, of all clubs should be sympathetic. 

Why?

They weren't sympathetic to us, and won't be if Venkys do put us into administration. There was a time when Rovers fans were leading the charge against dodgy owners and whilst clubs like Blackpool, Cov, Charlton and co were firmly on our side clubs like Wigan didn't give two shits. Now the shoe is on the other foot I am supposed to sympathetic?

They booed Dack for busting his leg up too. You remember things like that.

Make no mistake that if we ever get 12 pts deducted / administration you won't get any sympathy from our neighbours. They showed as much. It is for that reason that if or when it happens to them they won't be getting a tiny bit of my support either.

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39 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The rules are clear - go in to administration you get docked 12 points.

No

 Blackpool never got 12 points, there was no footballing advantage.   Its not as clear cut as you think.  A good lawyer will get them off

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