[Archived] Debate of the week: Is Chris Samba right to expect to play for a "bigger" club ?

[Glenn]

Time to try debate of the week again. Each week we'll take a meaty and contentious subject and let seasoned debaters thrash it out. This is no place for one line answers or poor English skills, it's about quality debate, if you can't manage at least a couple of paragraphs of more or less grammatically correct English IN EVERY POST then you're out. Resort to personal insults, going off topic or sniping, then you're out. Remember, this is debate, not argument.

So. Chris Samba has made it clear he believes he is capable of playing at a higher level that he thinks he can attain at Blackburn. Is he right to be honest about his aims or should he be loyal to the club that took a chance on him.

If you wish to make a comment on the debate, rather than actually debate, please use this thread ==> http://www.brfcs.co....s-and-feedback/

Update 1: This isn't an edict for the entire site. It's a little game/experiment in a single thread.

Update 2: So many of you are struggling with "a couple of paragraphs" I see.

People out so far this round.

Josh: 1 paragraph.

SAR: Off Topic. None debate.

Tashor: Too Pink. Too Short. Off Topic (though he did me make smile).

Miker: 1 Paragraph

[Josh]

I think he's right to want to move to a bigger club but the fact that he signed a new contract not too long ago isn't helping him. He's 27 right now and you never really know how long you'll be able to play at the top for, so if a big club came in for him like Arsenal, you can't really deny him the chance in my opinion

[SouthAussieRover]

He's entitled to move to whoever he likes.He's going to attain absolutely nothing except constant flirting with relegation at our club. Hopefully the Venkys make as much money as possible on the deal and get out of our club.

[niggit]

He Is right to want a move away from the club, as all players want to play for the big teams. But there is a right and wrong way of going about it.

We seem to see quotes from him, saying this that and the other. If he really wants a move, then put in a request. But he won't want to lose out on any money by doing that. If it is that bad, I rather him go then unsettle the team or the club.

[Tom]

Personally I think he deserves a move.

Obviously he hasn't been doing us a favour by playing for us, in fact we (thanks to Mr Hughes and his staff) made his career. However he has given us a good few years of great service and if he wants to have a crack at the top level then you can hardly blame him. Even when he hasn't been fully happy once he's stepped on the pitch he has given his all for the club.

With that being said if he has to leave then the terms have to suit us.

[AggyBlue]

He's right to have the ambition to want to play at the highest level ie Champions League but for me he makes too many mistakes.

I think Arsenal would be taking a risk signing him.

[tashor]

Yes.

Verbosity - good or bad? You decide...........

[SouthAussieRover]

Thanks for removing my post. This MB is becoming pathetic.

[Hughesy]

Cannot fault ANY player who wants to play at the highest level in the best competitions, that I can handle. Its when players jump ship as soon as they have hit the headlines that is annoying and sad to see - especially if they are likely to be on the bench....or when they take the move to a club which is just a sideways step.

Credit to Samba he has been at Rovers for 4 1/2 years and has been a great player for us. IF we get OUR valuation for him, then fair enough he should be allowed a move, but only to a team who will genuinely be in the Champs league every season or who can challenge for trophies.

That for me is not Tottenham, and im not sure if it is Arsenal either with the levels of investment going on at United, City, Chelsea (not so far this summer) and Liverpool.

[Miker]

It's not an issue if the player will continue giving 110% despite having ambitions of playing at a higher level. If other clubs are genuinely interested and will pay the expected sum then there's no reason to begrudge him a move. In the meantime, I'm more than happy for him to stay and expect that he will continue playing at the top of his game regardless.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Not only is it right for Samba to want to reach the peak of his profession and actually win things, I think we should be encouraging him to do so as it is a win/win/win.

Firstly, we make shed-loads of money, multiplying our investment in transfer fees many times over, which is the only way we will stay viable at this level. Secondly, for every Samba we take from Hertha Berlin reserves and sell onto Arsenal, there will be another 20 clamouring to follow in his footsteps, perpetuating the model. Thirdly, Samba himself achieves his ambitions and spreads the word about what a good experience he had here.

So, far from trying to persuade him to stay, we should be orchestrating an auction amongst the top 4. If we do that for a player who is ready to step up, then why would they want to leave to go to Villa or somesuch?

[Mattyblue]

If I felt that BRFC was going places as a club, I would be onSamba's case for ingratitude.

However, let's be frank, we aren't and he has given us good service. My argument has always been 'how can we ever move forward as a club, if our best players keep leaving?' but as it seems Venky's don't have the funds to move us on, god speed Chris.

[Andy]

My view on it is: if we get a suitable offer, let him leave.

It benefits the club financially and it benefits the player's career.

Let us now forget that Samba has given us a good few years service and has captained the club pretty well, culminating in his HT teamtalk against Blackpool which may or may not have saved our season.

It'd be a shame to stand in his way of a big move to Arsenal and considering the amount of profit we'll make on him, as well as my belief that he's certainly not irreplaceable, it wouldn't be the end of the world for us.

Worst case scenario: all offers refused, Samba made to stay and we have an unhappy and underperforming club captain.

[dave birch]

I'm with Andy on this.

He's given us good service, whether he's good enough to step up to CL is another matter. The transfer though should be financially beneficial to the Rovers. He should not be sold too cheaply.

Having said that, Samba should be made aware of the Rovers transfer curse, and I would suggest he talk to David Bentley before committing a signature to paper.

[ABBEY]

Me goosed then...strip him of capataincy and let hum rot in the ressies.Noone is bigger than the club.

[jim mk2]

The title of the thread is asking the wrong question because no player should "expect" to play for a so-called bigger club.

The question is, Why does Chris Samba think he is good enough to play for a so-called bigger club ?

My opinion of Samba is that he is a very good centre half but makes too many mistakes and lacks the pace of a top-class defender. If he does move to a Champions League club I think he will struggle against the world's best forwards.

He has been a good player for Rovers and is the last of the jewels that Mark Hughes discovered still at the club but his antics last season when Sam left did him no favours and he should heed the example of Bentley and others in thinking the grass is greener elsewhere and who probably wished they never left Ewood.

If Rovers do sell Samba I do not expect the money to be spent on an adequate replacement or in fact to be spent at all. The money will in all likelihood go into the same post office savings account in Pune that also holds the Phil Jones money and gathering interest daily to enrich the fortunes of the Desai family. .

[thenodrog]

That for me is not Tottenham, and im not sure if it is Arsenal either with the levels of investment stupid money being thrown at United, City, Chelsea (not so far this summer) and Liverpool.

Corrected for you. I keep saying 'investment' is not a word applicable to the Premier League yet people appear conditioned to use it.

If Rovers do sell Samba I do not expect the money to be spent on an adequate replacement or in fact to be spent at all. The money will in all likelihood go into the same post office savings account in Pune that also holds the Phil Jones money and gathering interest daily to enrich the fortunes of the Desai family. .

One of the 50 or so corner shop owners acting as Western Union agents in BB1 are gonna get a mighty shock when some geeza with a pony tail turns up in a Mr T type Transit full of 50's.

[Gav]

Chris Samba should not have signed a new contract in January if he had ambitions to leave the club in the summer, simple as that.

It’s the same situation with Modric at Spurs, he signed a 6yr deal and 12 months in wants to leave.

That’s my feelings on the situation, when are players going to be held accountable for reneging on contracts, it’s a two way street by the way, clubs also.

[SouthAussieRover]

Chris Samba should not have signed a new contract in January if he had ambitions to leave the club in the summer, simple as that.

Its the same situation with Modric at Spurs, he signed a 6yr deal and 12 months in wants to leave.

Thats my feelings on the situation, when are players going to be held accountable for reneging on contracts, its a two way street by the way, clubs also.

Sorry Gav, but do 3 lines constitute a couple of paragraphs?

[Blue n White Rover]

Chris Samba should not have signed a new contract in January if he had ambitions to leave the club in the summer, simple as that.

It's the same situation with Modric at Spurs, he signed a 6yr deal and 12 months in wants to leave.

That's my feelings on the situation, when are players going to be held accountable for reneging on contracts, it's a two way street by the way, clubs also.

However, GAV sometimes players sign new contracts with the clubs best interest at heart. I know that sounds stupid, but if you take Roque's situation into consideration, as far as I am aware, he signed a new contract which included a sell on clause, that in turn allowed us to make a healthy £15m profit.

Would we have got that amount if he had not signed? It can work both ways though, for example look at Jones, but again if rumours are to be believed, he had an £8m clause which was increased to £16m. So another benefit for our club.

The case of Modric and Samba however is the norm, players should have some sort of penalty for not honouring their contract, and this money has to be taken out their own back pocket. This is the only way I feel players will honour contracts. Will this happen though? Never in a million years.

[DE.]

As long as we get a good price for him I have no qualms with Samba leaving.

We picked him up for £400k and he's far exceeded our expectations by becoming a leader at the heart of our defence for the past four years. A great spot by Mark Hughes.

However, having proven himself here, he's at an age where he needs to move if he's going to have a chance of any sustained success in terms of trophies and medals. With football in the state it's in right now Rovers won't be the place for him to win anything - no matter what the bald optimist tells us. Even the League Cup seems out of our grasp these days.

Samba isn't a Rovers fan, and he's given us great service during his time here. Signing a longer contract in January did mean he got a pay rise, but it also meant we could demand more from other clubs for his services. In theory, assuming there are no buyout clauses, the longer the contract the more the buying club will have to pay.

Losing Jones at the same time is a big blow, if Samba had left and Jones had stayed I wouldn't be feeling as nervous - but Jones is gone, and if Samba goes as well that leaves a big void in the centre of our defence. It seems obvious now that the owners don't have the money to plug the hole, and there's no proof as of yet the money we receive from transfers will be reinvested into the squad. Technically we have Nelsen and Givet who can fill in there, but this creates numerous problems. Firstly the Admiral's career is winding down and he's becoming increasingly injury prone, secondly moving Givet to centre-back (assuming he stays here) means Olsson will probably have to play left-back if we don't sign anyone for that position. This probably means Gamst back on the left wing, reducing our threat on that side considerably.

I don't personally think Samba will enjoy the same adulation at a bigger club as he gets here. If he makes a mistake for us he has plenty of chances to rectify that mistake by making a saving tackle or block. At a bigger club one mistake could be the difference between 1st and 2nd, Champions League winners or runners up, etc. The spotlight is brighter, the pressure is higher and the chance to atone for mistakes significantly less. Of course he will have belief and confidence in himself to play at a higher level, and he can't be faulted for that. I don't think the step up would be easy for him, though.

Basically, as much as I don't want him to leave, and as much as I think it would seriously hurt us in the upcoming season... I can't begrudge him a move away on a personal level. If we receive a good offer (£15M+ at least as far as I'm concerned) he should be given the chance to further his career.

[jim mk2]

As long as we get a good price for him I have no qualms with Samba leaving.

Samba isn't a Rovers fan,

Apart from Dunn who grew up in the area and Pedersen possibly because he appears to genuinely love the club none of the players are Rovers fans. There aren't many players who are fans of the club they play for - most are doing a job of work and seeking to make the maximum amount of money they can during their relatively short playing career. Some people would call them mercenaries.

The trouble with selling Samba just because we are offered a good price is that we will have lost our two defensive rocks from last season. Losing both Samba and Jones would blow a huge hole in the middle of the defence and we would have to spend alot of money to replace them. Any combination of Hanley / Givet / Nelsen is not in the same league as those two players.

Rovers have enough problems improving the squad without making the existing squad worse by losing key players.

[rebelmswar]

Samba, to me, is a microcosm of our club as a whole.

Undervalued by previous owners, almost on the scrapheap, unwanted, and broken; then a visionary came. Polished the unit, buffed out the dings and filled it full of confidence, trusted it, and nurtured it into a leader and a winner.

Then darkness.

Times of tribulation and despair. Lean times.

Here is where our Kane and Abel part company.

There was no white knight to throw money toward a dysfunctional Blackburn Rovers and increase their revenue. It came down to, as in the end it always does, the devoted. The fans cheered and screamed encouragement, willed the ball towards the net, and prayed to a God most no longer believe. They sweated, tossed in their beds, worried, and chewed nails, and yet the knight did not come. Samba's knight arrived though, with his silver.

The club, rudderless, creaking, with waters rising in the bilge, caught in the calm, bobbed towards doom, while the crew got rewarded.

The crew fiddled while Ewood burned.

Rome did not fall however, due to the Gods, luck, karma, or fate, who knows, but the empire remained standing for another season.

Winter may be coming. but autumns' certainly here.

And whilst all that we love and cherish teeters on the brink of a chasm of destruction and woe, our captain, our phoenix, sounds the horn of retreat. The music of change and glory sound in his ear, yet the sounds of comradeship, adoration, are muted by the siren song of easy success and glory.

Glory is not a fleeting thing, it does not always attach to the victor. The bruised and battered man who pulls himself from the dust to continue on is just as noble and is filled with a fortitude that the easy victors can but dream about.

But it is harder, it is much harder, to stay whilst an empire is built than flee to a readymade ivory tower.

"The wretch, concentred all in self,

Living, shall forfeit fair renown,

And, doubly dying, shall go down

To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,

Unwept, unhonored, and unsung. "

[Majiball]

I have absolutely no issue with anyone wishing to better themselves and progress, but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things. Samba doesn't need to come out publically and state he wants a move to a higher level as all of it can be done behind closed doors. A word with his agent, a phone call to mate (player), however he wants to go about it he can do it all without displaying such disrespect. I have no issue if evetually the word gets out and the story of Samba looking to leave hits the papers as he's then tried to keep it quiet. But now I have seen three quoted interviews during the last 12 months spaced out over months, with him saying he wants out. For me quite simply that's not acceptable or necessary (if it was every player would do it), as to me it displays a lack of respect to both the fans and the club. Samba is our club captain and as such he leads by example and what example is he setting? Can every player at Rovers announce every 6 months that they want away? For me the answer is no.

Samba sit down and consider where you were 4.5 years ago and the journey you've been on since arriving here at Ewood. Who would have thought you'd become what you have? No one would, not even you. The club Blackburn, not it's employees alongside the fans have given you the platform to become one of the best CB's in this league and as such deserve some respect. You see I use the word respect as ever since a home game tail end of Sam's last season, I've wondered about Samba's perception of us. I saw Samba ranting at the crowd and not in a nice way and it was when the camera shifted that I realised he was ranting at the JW. I always thought that was an odd thing to do at the time. The crowd were always split under Sam and I wonder whether Samba's strong affection for Sam made him resent the negativity?

Anyway when I reflect on the above and his actions in the papers over the last 12 months I have to say I expect better from our club captain. If you want away fine, no issue, but there's no need for the quotation riddled 6 monthly reminder, we know as does everyone else.

[Stuart]

Great post Maj.

For reasons Jim has gone into, I think that the thread title is not quite what is meant, as no-one should expect anything in life. Opportunities should be earned and when they arise, that effort should be rewarded with the right to make a choice.

As things stand, it is hard to argue that Samba has earned the right to choose.

However, I think that he would be wrong to move away. The relative earnings of a Premier League footballer mean that, even a player on the meagre earnings that Blackburn Rovers offer, is set for life and, although a move would probably meant he simply becomes that much richer,  is that really a measure of a man?

The current climate is such that all players are expected to move to a big club to further their ambitions but is it really that simple? He only needs to look at the respective journeys of his fellow team-mates from recent seasons. Roque Santa Cruz, David Bentley and Craig Bellamy are all examples of players who have all left Rovers for Big Clubs. Although did the success that they 'expected' to follow with their 'dream' move materialise? Well let's take a look.

Roque: Went to City, played 20 times, in between getting injured. Trying to come back.

Bentley: Off to Spurs. Got a big(ger) head and a League Cup runner-up medal. I bet he wears it under his pyjamas when he goes to bed. Played 42 times in three seasons, scored against Arsenal. Went on loan to a proper "big club".

Bellamy: Probably the most successful, had one of the best seats in the house for a Champions League final. One season later, moved to West Ham.

There are other examples, Shearer (albeit he became a hero at his boyhood club), and Sutton who went to Chelsea following our relegation. Probably the only player to make a worthwhile move was Damien Duff but he was young enough to make an impact in a fantastic Chelsea side, and is the exception rather than the rule. The only thing most of our ex-players, moving up the ladder, have got... is richer.

So, in a word, no their 'expected' success didn't really really happen.

Samba is at the tail end of his career and, if he goes, is gambling on short term future success (trophies, and fast) - especially if he goes to Arsenal, where he could well end up with just a pot of cash to show for it.

But is that really what football means to him? Is that why he first started kicking a ball? Surely there is personal pride at stake. It could be argued that he would be taking on a big challenge at Arsenal to prove he is good enough to win them the League but, with Man Utd, Chelsea and even Money-Chest-er City buying up all the best talent, is that really likely? More likely is he will be a small fish in a big pond, disrespected and pilloried by his own fans as soon as he makes his first mistake. "We really paid £xx million for him? He's useless!". And no trophies. And did I mention plenty of dough?

At the famous Blackburn Rovers, as Team captain, and ultimately Club Captain if he stays, he has the challenge to take Blackburn back into Europe. Which is by no means easy - particularly in the timescales Kean talks about. But if he did, he would become a folk hero. His name talked about in years to come in the same breathe as Shearer, Hendry  Garner, Clayton and the ilk.

But... and here is the rub, the club must convince him that there is something at Rovers worth staying for. That we are on the cusp of building something. Something that he can be a big part, nay, a catalyst for. Something that we will all look back on in 10 years time and say Christopher Samba, the man-mountain, was the rock that Blackburn Rovers was built on.

They will only convince him of that if they secure the services of a top defensive midfielder for him to work with and a young centre-back for him to mentor. This will not be done by him thinking we have the budget of "50p and a packet of crisps". This will not be done by him having no clue about who our prospective signings are apart from "he's black".

He can stay and he will stay. If...

Over to you Venkys.