[Archived] Transfers Part 2

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, tomphil said:

Nowhere has it been said we'll be keeping this squad together.

Mowbray said he wants to keep the under contract players and that we aren't under pressure to sell. I don't more what more can be said on it at this point. 

I hope we stand our ground. Teams do that with under contract players. 

While feck all was reinvested last summer, it was Duffy and Hanley themselves who wanted out in the first place. 

 

[tomphil]

12 minutes ago, Pedro said:

In all honesty out of the released players (Jason Lowe, Adam Henley, Hope Akpan, Danny Guthrie, Gordon Greer, Wes Brown, Joshua Askew, Mahoney and Ramirez Howarth plus a bunch of young players) who will we really miss?  Guthrie was injury prone but could play a bit, Lowe gets vilified on here and his ilk are ten a penny, Henley was both very poor and very injury prone, Akpan consistently went through the motions, Greer and Brown were way past it, Mahoney has good potential but hasn't had the opportunity to contribute much, Haworth and Askew... meh).  Without a shadow of doubt, the wages saved on them is upwards of 100k a week.  We can add to this the decent wages that people are forgetting that we would've paid for Hoban, Emnes, Hendrie, Joao, Gallagher, Samuelsson and Byrne.  Alongside Venkys and Coyle, a lot of those players attitudes and performances have a big say in regards to where we find ourselves now.  I genuinely won't miss them in the slightest and am glad we are due an overhaul with a proper manager now at the helm. 

In terms of what we have left, I think Raya is a very good, young goalkeeper, Williams is a decent fullback, Lenihan will cope well at this level, Conway will have the run of many a fullback in League One, I like the attitude and impact Bennett can make, Whittingham is an upgrade on what we have let go, Smallwood is a proven battler and spoiler at this level, Graham should be a menace in a League where the likes of Lee Trundle have been deemed as Demi-Gods  Each and every one of those mentioned, is a grafter with ability and we need that much more than trying to unearth the next best thing in terms of young talent.

Sadly, I think that Mulgrew will be on the move, he is injury prone but is a class above any of those released so far.  Also, I expect Evans to go - who I feel has a lot to offer but just hasn't done it consistently enough - It would not surprise me if between these two, they are getting upwards of 40k a week between them and especially in terms of Evans, I don't think that is something the club should shoulder at this level.  Moving forwards and sticking to the theme of transfers, do I expect a major cash injection into the squad? No.  Do we need one or will shrewd frees, cheapies and decent loan signings do in this league? In my opinion, absolutely they will and with our facilities and players on our books, as embarrassing as it is to be here and say this, we are a major draw for the good quality League One players and aging but Championship players.

Agree with most of it a clearout of overpaid underachievers was desperately needed and this summer whatever division provides that platform. The right guys with the right ideas doing it and we might see a bit of balance in the squad at last but it needs pepping up with a few decent signings that might cost fees if we are to go anywhere otherwise we'll find ourselves trying to punch above our weight even in this division with what's actually available. Never mind the wage bill on paper because the team on the field under Venkys has never represented that and it seems that way suits their accounting.

A couple of million injected soley for a few signings who have the potential to increase in value would do a world of good at this stage. With the wage savings made and more to come we should still be able to get by. Going down this route will soften the blow for losing the likes of Mulgrew which is certain to happen.

[tomphil]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Mowbray said he wants to keep the under contract players and that we aren't under pressure to sell. I don't more what more can be said on it at this point. 

I hope we stand our ground. Teams do that with under contract players. 

While feck all was reinvested last summer, it was Duffy and Hanley themselves who wanted out in the first place. 

 

Players like them are always going to want to go when more ambitious clubs come sniffing with better wages on offer we all accept that. The first thing on the clubs mind then should be how to we replace these lads with similar. You should be always looking to reinvest upto 1 million in a replacement for any player you sell for 4 or 5 million and so on, other clubs manage it.

As for Mowbray yes we know he's said he'd 'like' to keep the players.

[Dunnfc]

29 minutes ago, Pedro said:

In all honesty out of the released players (Jason Lowe, Adam Henley, Hope Akpan, Danny Guthrie, Gordon Greer, Wes Brown, Joshua Askew, Mahoney and Ramirez Howarth plus a bunch of young players) who will we really miss?  Guthrie was injury prone but could play a bit, Lowe gets vilified on here and his ilk are ten a penny, Henley was both very poor and very injury prone, Akpan consistently went through the motions, Greer and Brown were way past it, Mahoney has good potential but hasn't had the opportunity to contribute much, Haworth and Askew... meh).  Without a shadow of doubt, the wages saved on them is upwards of 100k a week.  We can add to this the decent wages that people are forgetting that we would've paid for Hoban, Emnes, Hendrie, Joao, Gallagher, Samuelsson and Byrne.  Alongside Venkys and Coyle, a lot of those players attitudes and performances have a big say in regards to where we find ourselves now.  I genuinely won't miss them in the slightest and am glad we are due an overhaul with a proper manager now at the helm. 

In terms of what we have left, I think Raya is a very good, young goalkeeper, Williams is a decent fullback, Lenihan will cope well at this level, Conway will have the run of many a fullback in League One, I like the attitude and impact Bennett can make, Whittingham is an upgrade on what we have let go, Smallwood is a proven battler and spoiler at this level, Graham should be a menace in a League where the likes of Lee Trundle have been deemed as Demi-Gods  Each and every one of those mentioned, is a grafter with ability and we need that much more than trying to unearth the next best thing in terms of young talent.

Sadly, I think that Mulgrew will be on the move, he is injury prone but is a class above any of those released so far.  Also, I expect Evans to go - who I feel has a lot to offer but just hasn't done it consistently enough - It would not surprise me if between these two, they are getting upwards of 40k a week between them and especially in terms of Evans, I don't think that is something the club should shoulder at this level.  Moving forwards and sticking to the theme of transfers, do I expect a major cash injection into the squad? No.  Do we need one or will shrewd frees, cheapies and decent loan signings do in this league? In my opinion, absolutely they will and with our facilities and players on our books, as embarrassing as it is to be here and say this, we are a major draw for the good quality League One players and aging but Championship players.

Williams a decent full back? He's pish.

Can't tackle won't tackle, can't head won't head. Too often hugging mulgrew which suggests he's more suited or used to playing as a Left sided centre half and a full back who doesn't like to cross the half way line. Teams expolited this and anyone half quick soon got behind in that space he leaves.

Nice bloke like. He will be fine in L1 tbf but i was shocked when he collected player of the year.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Most would agree that it was a good thing that the dross is removed from our squad. 

Yes, actions speak louder than words and Mowbray has already signed 2 quality players at this level and has said more bids are in

I bet we will have a stronger squad at the start of this season, than at the start of the last. 

 

I am not disagreeing that removing the dross was a good thing and probably required for us to operate in this league. Just saying that at this point in time, as JH pointed out, we have knocked 100k off the wage bill and so far added no more than 20k in return - thus we have made cuts rather than actually spent anything. So all those saying we're spending (off the back of 2 freebies, and nothing other than words of bids being put in) and some are moaning about it, are well off the mark. Nothing has been spent, we've heard this all before many times and those of us that do not suffer with short term memory loss will not believe anything that is said until it actually happens. 

I believe TM is a decent bloke and has probably been given promises just like everyone else before him. He is not the problem. He has placed bids, if he says he has I have no reason to disbelieve him - yet our bids never seem to go over the line. Is the budget we have so small that we cannot even compete with the likes of Bury? Are the Venkies stalling on sanctioning deals? Are we on the same one out, one in when it comes to transfer fees and are waiting for Mulgrew or someone else to go for fees first? is the story a plant to try to convince a few more season ticket sales?

I have been impressed with the few names we have been linked with and would love to see a few of them and more added during the summer but I am not going to let these guys hoodwink me once again.

[Pedro]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

Williams a decent full back? He's pish.

Can't tackle won't tackle, can't head won't head. Too often hugging mulgrew which suggests he's more suited or used to playing as a Left sided centre half and a full back who doesn't like to cross the half way line. Teams expolited this and anyone half quick soon got behind in that space he leaves.

Nice bloke like. He will be fine in L1 tbf but i was shocked when he collected player of the year.

I'll have to take your word for it because I took a year off and only saw the handful of televised games.  I've heard he's not been bad though and going off his player of the season award, others quite a few must have had the same opinion.

[DE.]

There wasn't much competition in all honesty. Kind of like when Marcus Olsson won it.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, Pedro said:

I'll have to take your word for it because I took a year off and only saw the handful of televised games.  I've heard he's not been bad though and going off his player of the season award, others quite a few must have had the same opinion.

He's not been the worst no. He's still young 24 ish/25? Just looks awkward playing LB, i personally think he has the look and tendancies of someone used to playing inside. 

 

[JHRover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Mowbray said he wants to keep the under contract players and that we aren't under pressure to sell. I don't more what more can be said on it at this point. 

I hope we stand our ground. Teams do that with under contract players. 

While feck all was reinvested last summer, it was Duffy and Hanley themselves who wanted out in the first place. 

 

What Mowbray wants and what Mowbray gets could well be different things. Gary Bowyer wanted to keep Tom Cairney. Tom Cairney wanted to stay. Yet he was abruptly sold to Fulham of all clubs for a knock down fee to help pay the bills. 2 years later he's the most sought after player outside the Premier League. They can't even sell people successfully.

I hope we stand our ground also. Bolton have shown that even with little money decent players can be persuaded to stay if they believe promotion is the aim and a realistic objective. Difference is that Bolton have a board running the club that understand football and not disinterested foreigners and a shadow director.

We've also got to ask ourselves why Duffy/Hanley wanted out. Then we come back to the owners, their behaviour, lack of investment and selling anyone they can. All those things would encourage any ambitious player to look to move elsewhere. Having watched Cairney, Gestede and Rhodes sold off with no investment the other way and watched Owen Coyle turn up at Brockhall - all things the owners allowed to happen - its no surprise they wanted out.

[jim mk2]

The few times I've seen him I thought Williams was quite possibly the worst left back to wear a Rovers shirt. 

[JacknOry]

POY probably should have been Mulgrew despite injuries or Lenihan in my view. Most of the rest of our better performers were loans and it hardly sends out a good message when a borrowed player wins it. Williams probably got it because he was pretty much ever-present since he came in and had little or no other competition for the award. Did an ok job far from anything more than average.

Plus, their only investment winning would add to his perceived value for a future sale.

[Pedro]

Just now, JacknOry said:

I am not disagreeing that removing the dross was a good thing and probably required for us to operate in this league. Just saying that at this point in time, as JH pointed out, we have knocked 100k off the wage bill and so far added no more than 20k in return - thus we have made cuts rather than actually spent anything. So all those saying we're spending (off the back of 2 freebies, and nothing other than words of bids being put in) and some are moaning about it, are well off the mark. Nothing has been spent, we've heard this all before many times and those of us that do not suffer with short term memory loss will not believe anything that is said until it actually happens. 

I believe TM is a decent bloke and has probably been given promises just like everyone else before him. He is not the problem. He has placed bids, if he says he has I have no reason to disbelieve him - yet our bids never seem to go over the line. Is the budget we have so small that we cannot even compete with the likes of Bury? Are the Venkies stalling on sanctioning deals? Are we on the same one out, one in when it comes to transfer fees and are waiting for Mulgrew or someone else to go for fees first? is the story a plant to try to convince a few more season ticket sales?

I have been impressed with the few names we have been linked with and would love to see a few of them and more added during the summer but I am not going to let these guys hoodwink me once again.

So far, I reckon you can add another 80k to that which we have saved in terms of the loanees from Premier League sides.

I have no issue with the club saving money. I'd rather us cut loose 200k a week of utter dross and in turn invest 50k a week on a fewer number but more capable players (whilst also not having a handful of the youth team being bed-blocked by some hapless squad players/loanees).  Deals will be dragged out all the way to the end of August and I'd expect that's when we'll loan out or sell the likes of Evans and Mulgrew.

[Pedro]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

The few times I've seen him I thought Williams was quite possibly the worst left back to wear a Rovers shirt. 

Haha, sounds like I must be wrong! I'll hold my hands up to that one then.

I stand by the rest of the post - I've seen them play!

[Dreams of 1995]

I'm not going to join panic stations yet in terms of worrying why we haven't spent. There's still plenty of time to go in the transfer window. We can't afford to rush into this and start throwing money around-if it's available of course. I would rather get the right player than be left in a situation where we have lots of incoming players but some of which aren't ready to start.

So far I think TM has done some good business. Smallwood has a promotion from this league under his belt and is proven in this league whilst Whittingham adds much needed creativity and experience. If the rumours are true then players we have been linked with are all good quality players for this level.

I know people keep saying about our past record and I totally agree with that but maybe mid-June is a bit early to start worrying.

Edit: This is assuming the talk of money is true. I don't believe a word of anything that comes out of Ewood until I see it with my own eyes.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Pedro said:

So far, I reckon you can add another 80k to that which we have saved in terms of the loanees from Premier League sides.

I have no issue with the club saving money. I'd rather us cut loose 200k a week of utter dross and in turn invest 50k a week on a fewer number but more capable players (whilst also not having a handful of the youth team being bed-blocked by some hapless squad players/loanees).  Deals will be dragged out all the way to the end of August and I'd expect that's when we'll loan out or sell the likes of Evans and Mulgrew.

Not sure on that, I doubt we would have been paying much of their salaries if anything at all. Perhaps Gallagher being the exception. Most of the loans seemed to be more about their clubs not wanting them around the place rather than getting game time/experience etc. These were not young kids mostly, so I would argue it was to get them in the shop window. Emnes not wanted, Jaou not wanted after Wednesday bought in the likes of Rhodes, Hendrie just complete dross they wanted rid of.

[tomphil]

Just now, DE. said:

There wasn't much competition in all honesty. Kind of like when Marcus Olsson won it.

Vote rigging by the shadow men in the hope of adding value to him

Conspiracy number 5988953

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Players like them are always going to want to go when more ambitious clubs come sniffing with better wages on offer we all accept that. The first thing on the clubs mind then should be how to we replace these lads with similar. You should be always looking to reinvest upto 1 million in a replacement for any player you sell for 4 or 5 million and so on, other clubs manage it.

As for Mowbray yes we know he's said he'd 'like' to keep the players.

We were great at that in the Premiership. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Suhail Slayer said:

Mowbray wants to keep them but he won't be able to.

No pressure to sell is a complete lie. We have no money. There will need to be outgoings to pay for the incomings.

We were losing money every month last season (going further into debt month on month) with monthly running costs at £2 million per month.

This season we are already down by incomings by £350K per month which means these savings must be made just to stand still and continue losing money month by month.

Their aim is to have the club breaking even so the cuts will be bigger than the £350K pm.

 

You suggest standing our ground but then use the example of Hanley & Duffy to prove yourself wrong. It never works. If they want to go then they go.

Not always, we can stand our ground. On those 2 , you could make the case that we got good deals. The problem was the reinvestment. 

[donnermeat]

I think Williams is a centre half that's been shunted out wide because he's left footed. Plays enough games there for it to become part of the lexicon, 'Derrick Williams is a left back' etc.

It's happened to a lot of left footed players throughout the years, one example being Gareth Barry.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, donnermeat said:

I think Williams is a centre half that's been shunted out wide because he's left footed. Plays enough games there for it to become part of the lexicon, 'Derrick Williams is a left back' etc.

It's happened to a lot of left footed players throughout the years, one example being Gareth Barry.

Ya, true. You would wonder with so much money going around why top teams even need to resort to this. 

[K-Hod]

Just now, donnermeat said:

I think Williams is a centre half that's been shunted out wide because he's left footed. Plays enough games there for it to become part of the lexicon, 'Derrick Williams is a left back' etc.

It's happened to a lot of left footed players throughout the years, one example being Gareth Barry.

It happened to me as well.

 

[Dreams of 1995]

With TM seeming to favour the 3 at the back system there could be scope for a left wing back to be brought to the club. Though, as mentioned, they are few and far between. Could also leave the scope to put Williams back into the centre back role as this may suit him perfectly. 

[tomphil]

Some rumours of Feeney to Cardiff, i'd be all over that one if true he's another who's wages could be better invested elsewhere.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, tomphil said:

Some rumours of Feeney to Cardiff, i'd be all over that one if true he's another who's wages could be better invested elsewhere.

But that will mean we only signed players because we sold Feeney  

I would like to keep him, I think his pace and experience would be useful in League 1. Having said that, he would be far down my list of "must keeps" and I hear we have a few good wingers in the under 23s

[Beanie01289]

TM Say's there is some budget to play with and the Dack rumours seem to be coming from the Gillingham end not Rover's I'd suggest perhaps there is something to this.  

I'm not saying its sure but I have a feeling we have put a bid in for him how ever the phone may just ring out in India when it comes time to rubber stamp any cash buys if one is ever accepted.