[Archived] Academy keep category 1 status

[chaddyrovers]

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2017/july/rovers-commit-to-category-one-status/

[Bigdoggsteel]

Great news but only sustainable in League 1 short term. Need to start getting results on the field, hopefully with some homegrown players. 

[matt83]

One would hope the academy will come into its own now we're in league one.

Whilst we were in the Premier league my criticism of it was other than the odd players like duff, Dunn, jones, etc who forged decent premier league careers and made it just about worthwhile for the most part we produced league one/championship quality players. 

Now we're in league one there should in theory be a conveyor belt of suitable talent. Unless no matter what division we're in the calibre of player produced is only suitable for divisions below where we actually are in which case I fail to see the point of it.

Time will tell.

[JHRover]

I don't really understand the point of this story. The academy was granted 3 years of Category A status last year, so the only way it would be revoked or lost before 2019 would be if Rovers made the decision to do it. 

The big challenge will be what happens in 2019 and whether it is extended beyond then. Like every other facet of the club that will depend on Venkys mood at the time. The hurdles are getting greater and will ultimately require more money to comply, so we'll see how committed they are in 2019 if we're still in Lge 1 and need some serious dosh spending to pass the test and get another seal of approval. There's a difference between resisting the temptation to downgrade it now to save on staffing/playing costs and then coughing up a few million to develop the facilities required to meet the requirements in 2 years time.

I suspect this story is at least in part a response to Kinder's departure which has set in motion worries about the future of the academy. Cheston and co. are attempting to quell that speculation whilst trying to win some positive publicity for the owners for us keeping Category A, when really there isn't a story here except for now at least they aren't going to voluntarily downgrade the academy to save some money.

[blueboy3333]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I don't really understand the point of this story. The academy was granted 3 years of Category A status last year, so the only way it would be revoked or lost before 2019 would be if Rovers made the decision to do it. 

I think you've answered your own question. The point of the story is that Rovers have committed to keep funding the Academy at it's present level for the for the next two years.

[Dacky]

It'll be reyt when judan Ali takes over..  

[davulsukur]

8 hours ago, JHRover said:

I don't really understand the point of this story. The academy was granted 3 years of Category A status last year, so the only way it would be revoked or lost before 2019 would be if Rovers made the decision to do it. 

The big challenge will be what happens in 2019 and whether it is extended beyond then. Like every other facet of the club that will depend on Venkys mood at the time. The hurdles are getting greater and will ultimately require more money to comply, so we'll see how committed they are in 2019 if we're still in Lge 1 and need some serious dosh spending to pass the test and get another seal of approval. There's a difference between resisting the temptation to downgrade it now to save on staffing/playing costs and then coughing up a few million to develop the facilities required to meet the requirements in 2 years time.

I suspect this story is at least in part a response to Kinder's departure which has set in motion worries about the future of the academy. Cheston and co. are attempting to quell that speculation whilst trying to win some positive publicity for the owners for us keeping Category A, when really there isn't a story here except for now at least they aren't going to voluntarily downgrade the academy to save some money.

 

Quote

Rovers Director Mike Cheston added: “This has been subject to intense scrutiny over the last few weeks with the operational efficiencies review and it’s great to see that we’ve come through that process with a positive outcome.

“Congratulations to all the staff for making that happen and a big thank you to the Owners, because without their significant support and financial backing, none of this would have been possible.”

Sounds like Venky's were considering turning off the taps.

[JacknOry]

13 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

 

Sounds like Venky's were considering turning off the taps.

That's what I thought. We already have the academy at Cat 1 until at least 2019, so the story seems a bit 'out there'. I guess there were some serious discussions about whether to keep funding it. I would like to think that they saw our concerns on here and made the right decision. Now we need to push on up the leagues because I highly doubt we will get Cat 1 again otherwise.

[JBiz]

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

I don't really understand the point of this story. The academy was granted 3 years of Category A status last year, so the only way it would be revoked or lost before 2019 would be if Rovers made the decision to do it. 

 

...when really there isn't a story here except for now at least they aren't going to voluntarily downgrade the academy to save some money.

I agree with much of your post but I felt these two parts are easy to answer and relate to the same question. It's an important stance and action imo, not a "non" story.

They chose to keep it running. They could've revoked, cut back or sacked it off. 

No matter how much you paint this as a "none" decision, it still shows that there is someone or a company still accepting loses based on the cost of this and everything else, minus income.

Its a huge burden for a league one club, and at the same time a huge advantage because we've got top class facilities and coaching of our younger players. 

[JAL]

From inside the club I'm informed that these operational changes mean that the staffing levels are to be downgraded to a League one level I.e. less staff.

Is Cheston good pals with Simon Conning and his gang ?

[JBiz]

Just now, JAL said:

Is Cheston good pals with Simon Conning and his gang ?

Why don't you find out? If you are informed, it shouldn't be difficult.

[JHRover]

9 minutes ago, Biz said:

I agree with much of your post but I felt these two parts are easy to answer and relate to the same question. It's an important stance and action imo, not a "non" story.

They chose to keep it running. They could've revoked, cut back or sacked it off. 

No matter how much you paint this as a "none" decision, it still shows that there is someone or a company still accepting loses based on the cost of this and everything else, minus income.

Its a huge burden for a league one club, and at the same time a huge advantage because we've got top class facilities and coaching of our younger players. 

Is it a huge burden though? I accept that the cost of the academy in relation to our income streams points to it being a burden, but as I've pointed out in the past, the club has done pretty well out of the academy in recent seasons and has actually made money out of it in the time Venkys have been here.

Phil Jones and Grant Hanley alone brought in a reported £23-24 million. Darragh Lenihan is expected to depart soon and apparently the club are hoping for the best part of £5 million for him. If he goes this summer then in less than 7 years they've brought in almost £30 million of academy product sales. That is a healthy profit on what it has cost them to keep it open (estimated £3 million per year) so we can see why they might fancy keeping it open for a while longer in the hope another one emerges soon (David Raya most likely to be the next 'big one').

The point I was making is that the club has already made the investment and passed the criteria until 2019. The facilities and staff are/were already in place. So they aren't having to do anything other than carry on absorbing costs that were already expected and presumably budgeted for in advance.

[Tom]

32 minutes ago, JAL said:

From inside the club I'm informed that these operational changes mean that the staffing levels are to be downgraded to a League one level I.e. less staff.

Is Cheston good pals with Simon Conning and his gang ?

We are a league one club unfortunately so it's expected that we need cut costs  

[tomphil]

Cheston comes across more as a lip licking butt snake every quote you read, you can see how he keeps his job despite putting his name to wasting more millions and overseeing relegation. Shocking really.

[JAL]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Why don't you find out? If you are informed, it shouldn't be difficult.

This bit I don't know that why I put the question out to the wider community.

[JAL]

46 minutes ago, Tom said:

We are a league one club unfortunately so it's expected that we need cut costs  

We've seen Kinder and Billy Bars assistant go wonder if there are anymore obviously the club are playing it down at this moment in time maybe there are more to go out the door.

[chaddyrovers]

30 minutes ago, JAL said:

We've seen Kinder and Billy Bars assistant go wonder if there are anymore obviously the club are playing it down at this moment in time maybe there are more to go out the door.

Ian Jones left Rovers to run the Burnley academy so left Rovers for promotion in job role

I heard Kinder left because he and Mowbray had different of opinions about the academy and how to run it

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Is it a huge burden though? I accept that the cost of the academy in relation to our income streams points to it being a burden, but as I've pointed out in the past, the club has done pretty well out of the academy in recent seasons and has actually made money out of it in the time Venkys have been here.

Phil Jones and Grant Hanley alone brought in a reported £23-24 million. Darragh Lenihan is expected to depart soon and apparently the club are hoping for the best part of £5 million for him. If he goes this summer then in less than 7 years they've brought in almost £30 million of academy product sales. That is a healthy profit on what it has cost them to keep it open (estimated £3 million per year) so we can see why they might fancy keeping it open for a while longer in the hope another one emerges soon (David Raya most likely to be the next 'big one').

The point I was making is that the club has already made the investment and passed the criteria until 2019. The facilities and staff are/were already in place. So they aren't having to do anything other than carry on absorbing costs that were already expected and presumably budgeted for in advance.

Absorbing costs is exactly the point. Turnover has steadily dropped year upon year but for some reason (probably something to do with what you mentioned, the profit we've made from certain sales) they've kept the money available for the academy. Its important to remember the initial investment in 2016 has to be repeated year upon year. The facilities have fixed costs and the increased staff is a constant cost, not just the startup.

Jones is also the example that probably pushes them to think along the lines you suggest. The point I've made still remains though, we will benefit from the cat 1 status. 3m a season + the wages we pay to players who advance from the academy couldve easily been cut, especially when league revenue has dropped from 2.5m!

 

 

[JHRover]

6 minutes ago, Biz said:

Absorbing costs is exactly the point. Turnover has steadily dropped year upon year but for some reason (probably something to do with what you mentioned, the profit we've made from certain sales) they've kept the money available for the academy. Its important to remember the initial investment in 2016 has to be repeated year upon year. The facilities have fixed costs and the increased staff is a constant cost, not just the startup.

Jones is also the example that probably pushes them to think along the lines you suggest. The point I've made still remains though, we will benefit from the cat 1 status. 3m a season + the wages we pay to players who advance from the academy couldve easily been cut, especially when league revenue has dropped from 2.5m!

 

 

The annual cost of running at Category A academy is somewhere between £3-4 million. It has been the only element of the club that has been profitable throughout Venkys tenure (admittedly bolstered by the huge Phil Jones sale). Nonetheless from a purely business point of view I can see the attraction in keeping it open.

The lower we fall the easier/quicker academy lads can be integrated into the side. If we were still in the Premier League then I'd argue the likes of Doyle, Tomlinson, Wharton, Nyambe would have had little to no chance of breaking into the First XI. In League One I'd say they've a strong chance of not only breaking in but going on to establish themselves in the first team and in Nyambe's case earn himself a bigger and better contract.

The attraction to the club/Venkys is twofold. The ability to transition those players into the first team removes the need to go out and pay £500,000 for an alternative, whilst it also gives them a platform whereby in a couple of seasons they might 'do a Lenihan' where they are now expecting (allegedly) £5 million for him. Not bad when he didn't cost Venkys anything to begin with and has come through the academy.

I know business sense and Venkys don't go together but in the case of the academy so far keeping it open hasn't cost them anything really and the longer this goes on the more important and useful it might become to them.

[JAL]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Ian Jones left Rovers to run the Burnley academy so left Rovers for promotion in job role

I heard Kinder left because he and Mowbray had different of opinions about the academy and how to run it

So who's replaced Jones and Kinder ?

Who's next to leave ?

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, JAL said:

From inside the club I'm informed that these operational changes mean that the staffing levels are to be downgraded to a League one level I.e. less staff.

Is Cheston good pals with Simon Conning and his gang ?

Wow. That's auditor money well spent if the advice for League One level was to have a League One level of staff.

That said, as the only League One club with a Cat 1 Academy, surely we meet Cat 1 level staff  in there?

[Dunnfc]

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

Is it a huge burden though? I accept that the cost of the academy in relation to our income streams points to it being a burden, but as I've pointed out in the past, the club has done pretty well out of the academy in recent seasons and has actually made money out of it in the time Venkys have been here.

Phil Jones and Grant Hanley alone brought in a reported £23-24 million. Darragh Lenihan is expected to depart soon and apparently the club are hoping for the best part of £5 million for him. If he goes this summer then in less than 7 years they've brought in almost £30 million of academy product sales. That is a healthy profit on what it has cost them to keep it open (estimated £3 million per year) so we can see why they might fancy keeping it open for a while longer in the hope another one emerges soon (David Raya most likely to be the next 'big one').

The point I was making is that the club has already made the investment and passed the criteria until 2019. The facilities and staff are/were already in place. So they aren't having to do anything other than carry on absorbing costs that were already expected and presumably budgeted for in advance.

Bang on the money as usual 

[Mike E]

Perhaps they released the statement just to quell potential fan unrest at a (evidently) false rumour. Nothing more or less.

[Lancaster Rover]

20 hours ago, Biz said:

Why don't you find out? If you are informed, it shouldn't be difficult.

Saint John Williams was just as, if not more pally with Simon Conning for the record. 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Lancaster Rover said:

Saint John Williams was just as, if not more pally with Simon Conning for the record. 

I don't even know who he is. I know the club has been ransacked by agents but is it possible some use their powers for good?